IcemanSK

It's too bad that his last game was also the night that the Warriors broke the season win record by ending their season 73-9. The Warrior's story overshadowed Kobe a bit.

The exact thing happened to Fumio Demura. His Sensei told him that if he didn't test, he'd have students that outranked him. So after some prodding, Demura Sensei, against his own desires, finally gave in and tested...thusly...earned a much higher rank. Demura Sensei forever and a day was a Godan...until his Sensei urged. I complete appreciate a student, say a 2nd Dan, who never wants to teach & just wants to train. But for folks like Demura Sensei whose students are teaching & want their students to advance in rank, it becomes a necessary "evil." If one is training & seeking to improve one's ability to teach as they learn. There is nothing wrong with that. High rank need not equate to an over-inflated sense of self. It can also be argued that, for some, not testing can also be an ego boost, as well. Neither testing nor not testing is a guarantee that one's ego is in check.

Of the guys that trained that I went to high school with (about a dozen guys) only 2 of us are still training. Now this is nearly 35 years after we started, mind you.

A hypothetical situation I could picture. A 40 year student of a master who, while she used to live close to his master, moved to a small town in the middle of nowhere & runs a school under her master. After receiving 4th Dan, she doesn't test for 20 years, but continues to run her school. Her master, who knows the instructor's situation with the school, tells the instructor something like, "We're having a test at the HQ school in 9 months. Since it's been so long since you've tested. You will come and test at that time. You have students who are loyal enough to you that you need to be higher rank." Or some such thing. I have a friend in my organization who came across a similar issue. He was 5th Dan & ran his own program at a rec center. The rec center closed & he went back to his home school in a neighboring town. His home school master had retired & had given the school over to a 4th Dan student to run. My friend, outranked the CI of the school he attended. My friend didn't mind & enjoyed teaching & learning at the school under his 4th Dan CI, who was also a friend. The 4th Dan had time in grade to test for 5th Dan, but didn't see the need. However, our grandmaster was concerned that the students would be confused by the arrangement. Our grandmaster told the 4th Dan that she needed to test at the next opportunity. She did so at grandmaster's request. For context: In Kukki-TKD, one has to be 4th Dan to test one's own students & can test them to 3rd Dan. 5th Dan can test to 4th Dan, etc.

To student 'A': Shut up and train!! To student 'B': Shut up and train!! Student 'A'...just who promoted that student to a position that he/she doesn't possess?? Student 'B'...I will not force a student to test! Test...don't test...it's all good to me!! And when student 'B' is ready, I'll be here...whether it's sooner or later!! For student A, my answer is similar. They don't dictate when they test. For student B, it depends on their "why" & their rank. If they are holding back to have a chance to win tournaments, we'd be having a chat about ethics. If they just don't want to, it depends on their present rank & for how long they are there. If someone is 4th Dan. Runs their own school under me. But hasn't tested for 20 years, we'd be having a chat because at that point, that student is affecting his/her student's ability to promote, as well. Just an example.

I've heard this discussed in the locker rooms & in forums for a long time. Student says, "I'm ready to test. Why won't my master see that?" or the other..."My master just told me that I'm going to test. But I'm not ready, don't want to, don't need to, don't think I'm worthy, etc." At the end of the day, a student isn't going to test with their instructor's permission. (Not without a huge strain the relationship). And it's also unlikely that an instructor will test &/or confer rank on a student against the will of a student who really doesn't want the rank. But this issue is a frequent, often unspoken dance between master & student. Sometimes it's all within the individual student himself/herself. They either feel the deserve the next rank or that they cannot reach the next level. How would you deal with student A? A long time active student who feels they deserve to test. And student B? A long time active student that does not want to test and avoids it for longer than anyone would expect.

That's fantastic! Hopefully, he will be able to take this experience and build on it for the next time he is challenged.

It's good to hear you found a solution that was helpful. Did the student figure out they were being tested during the test, or was a surprise until afterward?

WElcome to KF!! You've got a great attitude for training!

Go Cubbies!!!

According Wikipedia, it came to Austin, Texas in 2011 from Australia (via Brazil) & Willie Nelson tested for 5th Dan in Art in 2014. It's a combination of Kickboxing, Hapkido (more BJJ than traditional Hapkido) and Judo. I'm looking to see if anyone has a connection to the Art, or who knows something of it.

Intentional or unintentional neglect constitute cause for a no confidence vote.

Outstanding!!! Way to go Alec!!!!!

That's really funny. I don't think we're alone. Years ago, I was a high school substitute teacher. One day I subbed for the varsity basketball coach whose team won the night before. My day was among the boy's gym coaches. I was amazed at how the coaches interacted with each other. For the first 4 hours of the day, all they talked about was the game the night before. That was understandable. But the weird part was, after they exhausted the discussion about game, not one man said one word to another for the rest of the day. It was sad that these guys who worked side by side couldn't find anything to speak to one another outside of that game. I know most guys aren't like that, but that was really odd.

I'd give them a call at Eosin Panther. Their customer service is excellent. I've called them several times & they've been great.

During my growing up years, my dad was a salesman & dealt with the public all day, every day. He didn't really like sports, but watched it on the news every night, so he'd have something to talk with other men about. "How 'bout them Cubs?" (White Sox, Blackhawks, or whatever Chicago team was doing well at the time) was always a good ice breaker with men that came in to buy something. I grew up not really caring too much about sports. When I got into MA, I discovered PKA kickboxing. Then boxing, then MMA, Judo & wrestling. If it's a combat sport, I'll probably watch it. Otherwise, probably not.

My understanding about why BJJ is that way (from you bold) is because Helio Gracie was small man he found more success on the ground than standing with his mostly bigger classmates & family members. Am I correct that he developed BJJ from his strengths on the ground? Help me understand those origins. That is the generally accepted version of the origins. There's controversy over the details but generally speaking, yes, that's it. As BJJ has progressed and speciliaized it's really focused on the ground and the ruleset of current competitive jiu jitsu has really reinforced this. Prof. Henry Akins has a really great quote that we're ground fighters, but in many cases we don't know how to get the fight to the ground in an advantageous position. It's something that all BJJ players need to remember, even if (like me) takedowns aren't your thing. Thank you for this. I appreciate you deepening my understanding. As a striker, I have very little understanding (but a huge appreciation) for grappling.

In suburban Los Angeles, where I am, there are some parks that are conducive to training and some that are not. In the parks with many homeless folks, I tend to only walk. In the parks that have many sports (soccer, runners, etc.) I have no trouble finding a place to train among them. I'm a bit self conscious when I train MA in public. I will do push-ups & squats in public, but rarely kicks. I have space in my backyard where I train in private. About as public as I'll get in my training is at the YMCA's small aerobics/Yoga room during their off hours when no class is in session.

I'm considering this one. https://www.sunfrog.com/Sports/All-I-care-about-is-Taekwondo-and-like-maybe-3-people-Black-xef8-Hoodie.html

Yes, & think you're right, DWx. I thought about ITF folks, & even Kukki-TKD folks who stick with the Palgwe poomsae, too. I spent some time years ago with an ITF high-ranked man who went to many seminars with Gen. Choi. When he's teach tul he'd say, "when I was with Gen. Choi last year, he said...." My master at the time, could care less. There are plenty of of Kukki-TKD folks that like the "old ways" of the Palgwe poomsae, despite the Taegeuk poomsae being normative since 1975. Kukkiwon is making an effort (a strong one at that) to ensure compliance with standardizations they've imposed. Some high-ranking folks are reacting by either pushing back or leaving Kukkiwon altogether. I didn't want to post a video of this group doing forms, in part because I didn't want to hold them up to ridicule. But also, I couldn't find the video shown to me. It basically showed forms being done as fast as possible with no pauses or transitions between techniques. My thought, as I read how others enjoyed a laugh at these folks' expense, is that these folks are neither my students nor my masters. My opinion on the "rightness or wrongness of their technique matters little. As sensei8 says in terms of martial application, "the proof is on the floor." I've not seen how they apply their forms, so I don't know. I'm not sure what it is in human being that makes one marginalize another human being for sport. I guess it makes us feel better about ourselves without having to do anything to earn that feeling.

*Please note that this is not an indictment against GM SON, or his Chung Do Kwan in any way. Some of my history & details of GM SON is probably off. I'd welcome corrections.* GM Duk Sung SON (1922-1911) was the second Kwan Jang (President) of the Chung Do Kwan. He remained Kwan Jang until 1959, when GM Woon Kyu UHM became Kwan Jang. GM UHM is still Kwan Jang to this day. In the 60s, GM SON began teaching Chung Do Kwan in New York State. He wrote a book with a student of his in the 1960s. "Korean Karate: The Art of Tae Kwon Do." In that book, GM SON says that a specific form in the book has a time limit in which to perform it. In other words, it's done quickly. From my understanding, many of GM SON's forms are to be performed quite quickly. Videos of these students of GM SON performing forms have become objects of ridicule online in recent years, due to their speed. Many have referred to their training as worthless, bad TKD, &, of course, McDojo-ish. I have a different theory on GM SON"S Chung Do Kwan that explains why it's different than other TKD, or even Chung Do Kwan found elsewhere. GM SON left as Kwan Jang of the CDK on bad terms & moved to the US. He was held at arms length by the leadership of CDK at that point. He was very much on his own. My guess (and that's what it is), is that GM SON developed his particular style on his past experiences in CDK. His his 1968 book, the kicks were typical of the TKD kicks of that era. Unlike others in TKD, he no longer had peers to bounce ideas off of or try new ways of throwing techniques. So, "the old ways" remained how he taught. He probably also saw martial value in speed in performance of hyung, so that is how he taught them to his students. Evolution of technique, was solely his prerogative. So much stayed the way he thought best. While the rest of the Chung Do Kwan evolved with the collective larger student & teaching body, GM SON's CDK, remained largely the same. Many of GM SON's students refer to their brand of CDK as the "real Chung Do Kwan" because he was the Kwan Jang at one time & they were told that "this is Chung Do Kwan." To my mind, it stands to reason that they would think that. His students may not not know the ongoing history of CDK. GM SON did not have the collective thought of larger Chung Do Kwan or other Kwan that other early pioneers had post 1959. If someone was doing something new, GM SON was, most likely, not in the loop. Sparring rules, new sparring gear, new ways of throwing familiar kicks, etc. were probably not something he was privy to due to his lack of connection. My Chung Do Kwan lineage is from GM UHM, the current Kwan Jang of Chung Do Kwan. I see GM SON's students as family, even though I don't subscribe to their thinking. I'm hurt when I hear bad things about the way they train. My grandmaster taught us to perform Yun Bi (Karate kata, Empi), with a 45 second time limit. Some in our organization, have felt that performing it as quickly as possible. Technique seems to suffer at the expense of speed. We help them to perform it closer to the 45 second time limit to strengthen good technique. Perhaps it is an offshoot of GM SON's group who are doing them so quickly. I don't know. I see value in training what has been passed down to us. Every master changes something that was past down, either intentionally or unintentionally. I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. I'm interested in the thoughts of others here on this subject.

I remember a movie starring Kathy Long called "The Stranger." The fight scenes were decent, as I recall.

At work, school, & other time outside of class, do you think about training often? Do you spend time outside of class with training partners? Obviously, it's a bit of time because we're all on here. Do you spend time doing something & wish you were training? My answer...YES, a lot! How about you?

Solid post!! To the bold type above... If I've lost respect here at KF for how I feel about that CI mentioned in my first post in this topic, I completely understand, and ask for forgiveness. Please hear me. I was not commenting, even slightly, on your post or your comments, but on the situation I posted entirely. FWIW, my thoughts on your situation: 1) You advocated for yourself in an odd situation. 2) You did even what that CI asked & spoke to his sensei. 3) His sensei was a reasonable man. 4) No one was physically hurt. I'd say it ended well. My signature says a lot about what I believe about MA training. I know too many great fighters & teachers who cannot manage to be decent human beings off the floor. Sadly, they've taken difficult childhoods or being treated badly at their job or at home & cannot manage to treat others the same way, regardless of the "Integrity" tattoo in Chinese on their bicep. If the tenets of my Art don't sink in, it doesn't matter how good my side kick is....I'm not doing it right. I respect you greatly, sir.

The closest I had to an experience like this was an inter-school issue. In my gup days in the early 80's, my master invited another Korean master to join us at our dojang. I'm not sure why the younger master was invited. Master #2 spent a few weeks at our dojang training with us. We had a 3rd Dan who was a ranked fighter, & a hot head. One night, both were sparring before our master had come to the dojang. The rest of us were stretching awaiting our master. One accidental low blow not apologized for turned into another cheap shot. One of the 2 men suggested they "take in outside." (No, I'm not kidding!) We had several BBs who didn't normally come to class there that night. They were able to separate these men. As they did, our master walked through the door. He called master #2 into his office & chewed him out loudly in Korean. Master #2 left, & never returned. He then called in the 3rd Dan & spoke to him in a controlled tone & told him that he was no longer welcome. The 3rd Dan left in tears. He came back several times & begged to be allowed back. The 3rd time he tried, our master would not even speak to him. If the tenets of our Arts don't lead us to keep our emotions in check, we need to re-evaluate our training.