Zaine

How far away did you move from the Shotokan class?

My first dojo did a lot of "full contact" sparring, which is to say at higher levels it very much resembled an MMA bout in rules. We were able to punch to faces, do takedowns/throws, go to the ground for locks, the whole 9. Even then, no one was throwing a punch to knock someone out. Strikes were often pulled so as to not cause injury (especially to the face, no one was ever knocked out and we were pretty good at hitting someone in the forehead instead of the nose). The only real "full-contact" sparring we did was during tests, when we had to showcase that we were able to do this in a "real" situation. EVEN THEN, no one got knocked out (though contusions and busted ribs weren't uncommon. Kyokushin does do a lot of hard sparring, I've spent some time in Kyokushin dojos. They obviously don't go full out like we might see at competitions every time, but the hardcore dojos are intense. The amount of joint issues that I have seen with Kyokushin Karateka later in life does worry me a little, it seems an art prone to lasting injury. However, I don't have the numbers to back that up and I could just be only hearing about a loud minority. How many times have we heard of other Karateka that have lasting injuries because of their dedication? I've met a lot of older masters with joint replacements. It could just be due to our poor understanding of joint health and proper stretching techniques in the past.

There's a whole culture of high priced MA services. A part of it is this American belief that we can make our living doing something like running a dojo and all it takes is hard work. I know that this is not a specifically American belief, but it certainly is loud here. This is exacerbated by people who have been successful doing something like this (e.g. Jesse Enkamp) and feeling that they can do it better. Another part is our belief that price = quality, so if I'm paying $150 for something that someone is paying $80 for, then I know that my education is of a higher caliber than theirs. (Internalized classism is rampant throughout the Western world, so it is no wonder than it plays here). Sometimes compromise is necessary. Maybe a dojo doesn't tick all of the boxes but it ticks enough of them to be worth while. I currently pay $65/month unlimited classes for my dojo. The Shihan and other Sensei have daytime jobs, and this is their passion project. They teach karate in a way that I like, are serious about their training, and their students are typically tested when they should be and not just because the school wanted to lower turnover. I like the people there, and I enjoy my time. Do they have everything that I am looking for? Absolutely not. There are things that I wish we did differently. Some of those things are things that I just wish we did more (like sparring, but with COVID still around I am more than understanding as to why it's not as prevalent). There are some things that I don't think we need to do as much of. But at the end of the day, it's not my dojo, it's the dojo where I train. When I achieve a rank where I can open my own school (Nidan, by the dojos standards, Sandan by my own), I can train my students in whatever way I find best. All of this to say: Sometimes you have to compromise with a school that isn't perfect for you so that you can be the perfect school for you. There is no perfect school or student, but only you can train yourself in the way that you want. Martials Arts training is 30% classroom, 70% personal training.

It's more of a rules change than anything else. From what I saw of the competitions, the palm strikes are more slaps than anything else and can only be done when someone is one the ground. From what I can infer, Bravo (the creator) got jaded with the current rule set of BJJ tournaments and felt this was a purer way of doing bouts. I can see where he's coming from, and have no loyalty either way. Otherwise, it looks like BJJ.

Hi R5ky, welcome to the forum! It's great to have you. The truth is that most dojos make their money from their kid's programs. I think it's fair to say that, at least in the US, that kids pay the bills, and adults are just extra. Because of that, you're not going to find a lot of schools that don't have kids programs, or focus more heavily on the kids classes at least. It's important for any business to cater a little more to their target audience, and in this case it's kids (and more than that the parents of those children). That said, this doesn't mean that there isn't a robust adult program as well. Often, the adult program will look different from the kid program. It often takes a more serious tone, the teachers are able to get more in depth with the students on techniques, they can require more of the adults who have the brain development at that stage to work through disappointment about time in rank. Adult's expectations can be tempered better to understand the investment it will take to reach other ranks. Overall, I would heavily suggest taking some trial classes in the dojos/dojangs around you. Hop on the floor with the adult classes and find out what it is about for that school. If it's something that is inline with your beliefs and goals, then join long-term. If it isn't, find another one. Finally, there are some schools that focus strictly on adult teaching. Sometimes these are in dojos, sometimes these are in a house or park. Sometimes dojos are big enough that there can be a Sensei dedicated to only teaching kids, and one only for adults. Teaching kids is not for everyone. If you don't find a dojo that fits what you're looking for, try finding a group that might meet elsewhere.

For Shodan you could spar the Elite 4 and at the end the reward is your Black Belt if you passed! That could be the signifier that you passed, as well. You did well, now just spar the Elite 4 and Champion and if you make it through your reward is the belt. Sounds fun.

Listen, that sounds incredible. There's still time to do that. I'm still chasing my dream. I want to open a dojo, combine all the things that I know, and teach "karate," as opposed to a specific this or that style. Maybe call it American Shorin Ryu just to give it a name. The idea was to get to Sandan and start teaching the system that I knew while broadening through other systems, but then I moved for college and when I got back my Sensei wasn't teaching anymore. Then it was a number of moving around and never being in a solid location for too long. I spent a lot of that time, as my sidebar will attest, training in a lot of other styles. Some I was able to do for a few years and gain good proficiency, while others I was only there for a few months. Now I'm at a new school going for the long haul again (test for 3rd kyu in 2 weeks). By the way things are going, I should have Shodan in about a year here and can start running classes at this dojo so I can learn to be a better teacher. I actually found someone else at this dojo with similar experience (they have 30 years on my 20) who has the same dream and we've been talking about the end game for us both and potentially developing the style together. It's been an exciting time to do karate.

Welcome to KF! It's great to have you!

Welcome to KF! It's great to have you!

That's a very good policy. A lot of dojos (mine included) will give you your first gi after you've made your first tuition payment. No need to push $100+ dollars on a fancier gi right out of the gate.

The cheapest I could find was karatemart, who had a size 10 at there largest (they claim good for people up to 80 inches or 350 lbs). Not sure if they are friendly for people shipping outside the US.

Precisely. Ki is an easy concept to grasp and as a visualization tool it can't be beat. Analogies work best when your audience has a solid understanding of a concept. If people already have a rough understanding of what Ki is, even if their understanding is erroneous, then why not use it when explaining concepts that are abstract to people who aren't used to Martial Arts?

The mention of Quinlan was awesome. I would love to see a spin-off, animated, live, comics, or book to see what he has been up to post Order-66.

I love it. Like you, I have some gripes here and there, but they tend to be minor. They have done a great job showing us why everyone was so scared of Vader during the Imperial Reign. That walk through the town was chilling.

Yes, famously people like George Dillman preach ki and "demonstrate" it on students. Doing no-touch knockouts and the like. Conmen will always be a part of karate (like everything) and people like Dillman will always exist as long as there are people who want to believe. Otherwise, there are some "legit" dojos that teach ki, but not in a mystical way. Ki can be taught in our breathing techniques, as a metaphor for how we generate power, for focusing our energy in certain parts of our bodies as we move. Some have moved away from calling it ki, due to the stigma surrounding it in martial arts circles. My dojo talks about the concept of "tight/loose" instead of ki. While learning Sanchin, the instructor used ki as short hand for the focus of breathing techniques and dynamic tension. None of these people believe that they can knock someone out with ki (we're not Jedi/Sith, however much I want to be), but believe that ki as spirit and energy a useful concept within the teachings of martial arts.

My first school we had to go through our opening calisthenics, lead them after 5th kyu, then every kata, then 3 3 round sparring matches for lower kyus, 5 3 minute rounds for upper kyus, and for Shodan and above there are various rounds for 30-60 minutes. My current dojo depends on how many are testing, but it tends to be 10-30 minutes for kyu ranks, and 2 hours for Shodan. No calisthenics, no exercises, just a demonstration of techniques learned. This includes any Hojo Undo introduced at the current rank, if you're testing with juniors then you do their Hojo Undo with them as well. Afterwards it's the kata you've learned for that rank (at Shodan it's every kata), and then ippon kumite for that rank. For kyu ranks, that's it. The board will go to another room and discuss, and then after that you rank up if you didn't totally bomb the test or have a bad attitude. For Shodan, there is also sparring involved. From what I understand, pre-covid sparring was included in upper kyu tests as well. Furthermore, the testee has to put together a demo to demonstrate their knowledge and understanding of karate.

Everyone is different. Passion waxes and wanes, and sometimes things that consumed us wholly fail to return. Sometimes, life happens, and we need to put aside hobbies for things that are more important to our survival. Perhaps they just needed to know enough to get them out of a fight, but have no real interest beyond that. People take what they want from things and move on, even those of us who are lifers. I'm not worried about people who stay for one rank and then leave, if we can't plan for turnover then our gyms will fail. Turnover is a fact of life for martial artists. What makes people interested in BJJ? MMA, probably. UFC is still pretty huge. We have no small number of MMA organizations beside UFC like Bellator now. Those fights go to the ground and that's exciting to watch. To the untrained, if you watch a bunch of fights go to the ground regularly, you might have the impression that fights go to the ground regularly. Maybe they do, in 1v1 situations, I am thankfully ignorant of that in my personal life. However, the data tends to suggest otherwise. Either way, perception is reality. If the perception is an over valuation of being able to defend oneself on the ground, then that's where interest will follow. Who knows what's going to happen in the next decade. Maybe something like Karate Combat will hit big and people will flock to karate. Maybe a movie as influential as Karate Kid will come out and that boosts karate numbers as well. The future in unknowable. Would changing the grading system of karate change to reflect what you've described increase quality? Probably not. To begin with, the instructors that decided a person is ready to test is still the same person. If they are okay with the quality of their dojo, then changing the testing structure isn't going to change the quality, just the bureaucracy. Increasing the quality of karate is not an obtainable goal. You can promote quality karate, highlight certain dojos, teach your students to a high standard, but for every you there will be a handful of people who aren't teaching a high standard of karate. I'm not sure that's as big of a problem as we think it is. When it comes to teaching, our goal is to see improvement. If a white belt is trying their hardest, improving, though not at the rate someone else is, do we, as instructors, hold them at white until they are as ready as someone else was? I would argue that we promote them. Karate is a personal journey, and if they have improved enough and are still trying to improve then they deserve that 9th kyu rank, and I think this is true all the way up to black belt. Not every body needs to be a paragon of martial arts. Not everyone wants to be a paragon of martial arts. Are their techniques perfect? Who cares. Are their techniques better today than they were last time? That's what's important. We keep telling karateka that karate is about growth. We need to walk the walk if we're going to talk the talk.

I just took a peek at the prices of Shoyoroll on their website. It's very likely that the disparaging tone is coming from spending $250 on a gi for a hobby that you've only just started.

Weird. One of the first thing I tell people who seem to be intent on sticking around is to buy a good quality gi (I don't recommend a brand per say) because it will last them longer and feel better (not to mention give good snap). Maybe there's a belief here that higher quality gis are for upper ranks? Or perhaps they think the white belt a fool for dropping over $100 on a gi that they might not use do to turnover. Who know. I tend to not care very much what anyone wears, as long as they're in uniform.

My best guess is that he would speak through avatars or in the shadows, saving the CGI budget for the Fingolfin fight and the stealing of the silmaril by Beren.

It depends on what they were going for. I'm also assuming that this would be someone I knew talking to me about it. If they were just looking for defense in general, and an exercise, I would argue that they should do karate because I do karate and it's nice having a friend there when you did it. Also, since I am experienced, they would have someone they felt comfortable asking questions to right off the bat. If they were looking to do something specific, like MMA or kickboxing, it's unlikely that I would argue with them to do karate over something more tailored to what they want. I would advise them to come visit time to time to open up their perspective, but I'm of the opinion that if something caters to their specific desires then that thing should be what they pursue. Martial arts tend to be what we make it and the more people engaging with it at any level the better. Not everyone has to enter into the fighting side of it through karate like I did.

If this goes well, I can see a Feanor saga in the works. It seems likely to me that they would want to test a show with characters that movie fans were familiar with before pushing beyond that.

Honestly if it's a brand you like and are comfortable with already then I would just go with that. Gis can vary so much between manufacturer, so if you've found something that you like then stick with it.

Also punching! Sometimes throwing! Definitely finger striking.

To take auirk's lead: Dad, which is my favorite M.A. English and Creative Writing Shodan Matsumura Seito Shorin-Ryu Shodan American Street Karate 4th Kyu Shobayashi Shorin-Ryu 4th Kyu Shudokan Unranked Southern Mantis/Longfist (Sifu did not believe in ranking) Unranked HEMA (There are some programs that do ranking but they tend to be in the minority)