elbows_and_knees

So we pretty much agreed on chuck liddel. From what you wrote it was pretty much the same thing you quoted me on.

Royce has trained in other disciplines so weather or not he feels that he is pure bjj fighter. I am sure the other arts he studyed had an impact in his fights in some form or the other.

My disagreement with what you said about liddel is concerning his striking. you are saying that he's a good striker because his kenpo came from a guy who's known for training in a boxing fashion. I say it's not his kenpo, but the fact that he trained and competed in muay thai.

Royce, as far as I know, has had nor more than a few months of boxing training - literally. Definitely not enough to no longer not consider him a pure bjj guy. Several of the other gracies cross train, but he does not.

That is my point, he doen`t send you tou his accounter or his lawyer.

To be more acurate, what i mean is if you keep practicing only a few elements of your MA, you become an uncumplete artist.

when you look at it realistically, any style you study will be incomplete on some level. Your style may contain kicking, punching, graplling, throwing, etc. but if you are not training all of it on a regular basis, then you are incomplete.

As for the analogy, I was sticking with your example... you mentioned a doctor, so I used it.

but you have to admit, compared to pro-boxing, amateur boxing rules are a bit, well, pansy.....

they're cool - they promote skill improvement.

I don't think it matters what art he studies if the guys too sweaty and they arent wearing much its not going to help. You have to figure out tactics that dont involve holding on to bare skin. Of course most grappling arts arent meant to be used on someone who's already glistening with sweat.

It matters. this is where hooking comes in - over and underhooks. It's easy to slip away from my hand, but if my whole arm is snaked around you... If you must grab with the hands, use a monkey grip (don't use your thumb) and grab muscles - like the back of the tricep.

I would go with judo.

I see, e&knee, very powerfull point. And am agree whit it till certain point.

I mean, i don`t fell that a good doctor can be also a remarcable acounter.

If you are a doc, specialize using all your tools.

What woul you think if you go to your dentist and she (mine dentist is a girl, wth a pair of eyes that can make you fell great and think bad) and she tells you that she doesn`t know wto paste a molar becuz she is specialized in insisives.

Out from my methafor, read the one avobe, from WW

And now you are talking about specialization. When your physician can't treat you, what does he do? He sends you to a SPECIALIST - be it a heart surgeon, ENT, ob gyn, podiatrist, etc.

hey some time ago I read an article in either Kung-Fu/Tai chi magazine or Inside Kung-Fu magazine.In it there was article about a brother and sister duo that did full contact matches with Tai chi.So tht does prove that there are few Tai chi people that train to fight.

you are talking about max chen and his sister. They are the offspring of william cc chen - chen style grandmaster. They don't only train taiji, they both crosstrain in san shou. His sister is more of a push hands competitor though.

it's rare that this actually happens. The way to prevent it is to train smart. Off the top of my head, I can only think of a handful (less than 5) pro fighters who have suffered from this. Once upon a time, I had a statistic showing how rare it actually was. To be honest, boxing is one of the safest sports out there, especially on an amateur level.

Thanks guys, but you say they prefer elbows kicks and knees, but do they know just as much punching techinque as boxers and Kickboxers??

No. the hook and uppercut are present, but are seemingly non-existant. I don't think I've ever seen one use a body hook. That's not to say that they don't, just that I haven't seen it. A knee to the body is more damaging.

funny you should mention that. A few months ago, an article was put on the net about a thai boxer who chased away three knife wielding assailants that broke into his home and assaulted his mother. Speaking as someone who frequently deals with big fight situations (I'm a bouncer by night) I'll be the first to say that NO style is good for multiple attackers. In theory, any style can be - muay thai should be especially good - but in actuality, when you face multiple attackers, you are in trouble.

why does a MA guy need big muscles? They don't, but there are plenty who have them. same thing. they don't NEED to be able to do the splits, but that doesn't mean that they aren't into stretching and flexibility. Heck, they coulda been tkd black belts when they were younger... When you are talking about physical activity, there is a lot of crossover in a lot of different things. A friend of mine is a dancer, but she really likes the speed bag, so she uses it. Such is life.

catch has been brought up for years on the mma scene... I think the biggest problem is availability.

all stances are quite common among all styles, actually. The thing is that not all styles even perform stance training - like thai boxing, for example. But, you see the stances when and how they are supposed to be used - in transition. you aren't supposed to just hold a stance; it is part of your footwork - how you move from one technique to the next and how you perform a vertain technique.

look at your foot position when you are doing a shoulder throw (ippon seionage) for example - it's basically a horse stance. look at yuor foot position when you do tai otoshi - it's a forward stance. a boxer throws a straight right - for all practical purposes, he is now in a forward (bow and arrow) stance. There are some mechanical differences, but it is the same thing.

NEVER LIMITATE YOURSELF JUST BECAUSE YOU DON`T WANT THE EVOLUTION EVOLUTIONS

It's not about limiting yourself - it's about specialization. When you specialize in something, you can truly master it. Of all the techniques I learned in karate in longfist, will I ever truly master most of them? No. Of the things I am learning now in judo, thai boxing and capoeira, will I ever master most of them? for thai boxing, yes. Why? because there is a smaller number of techniques to be concerned with. I may very well master the core techniques of capoeira someday, and perhaps 7 or 8 judo throws.

That is the nature of mastery - specialization. you can never master it all. Even when you look at current "masters", and those from the old days, they normally had something they reached mastery in - that thing is what they were known for. Some were known for lightning footwork, others for their iron palm. but notice you never heard about anything else concerning those guys. Why? because they specialized.

That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with learning a lot of techniques, just recognize that you will not master them all.

God in the Old Testament is no different than God in the New Testament. Period. (Take it from someone whose major is theology, haha). Turning the other cheek was talking about response to insult, not attack (seriously, guys, a slap??). It is in no way unbiblical or unchristian to defend onself or others, and one fo the big things about Jesus dying was WILLING sacrifice for our sins - yes, he could have gotten out of the situation, or fought back - but the fact that he did not, and was killed though he was undeserving is a major part of it. Oh, and to the comment about the writings of Jesus' followers, well, either all the bible is true or none of it is true (self containted statement, see 2 Timothy 3:16), and Jesus was one of three things: He claimed to be God, so he was either a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord. There's really not another option, with such a bold claim. Personally, I beleive the latter . Anyone wishing to enage in any further discussion is more than welcome to bring it up on here, or PM me.

In Christ,

Phil Stewart

bingo.

You can't just go into the UFC you got to be invited. I say go to the smaller shows around and use your awesome Kung fu against them. You can win! Then you can move up to the UFC and show the world the power of kung fu.

Those darn MMA people think only good styles are Boxing,mauy thai (kick boxing), wrestling, and bjj.

soon your kung fu will be added to that list. Go get em. I am rooting for you.

Remember if Done right no can defend

you are joking, but there is truth to it. There is a WC school in australia that recently had victories in local mma there. In canada, there is the northern lights taiji school, and there is a guy named sami berik who is pur cma also. None have done any big shows, but they have all been successful in what they have done.

royce stuided striking as well so he isn't a pure grappler.

that's actually not true. I've asked royce himself this. Here was his reply:

"I am a bjj stylist. I am NOT a mixed martial artist and don't label myself as one."

Oh and chuck lidell is a d-1 wreslter, his kenpo is good because of the help of john hacklemann who runs it more like boxing and works hard on the KO punches. as well as he been studing bjj with John Lewis, marc laimon and many other people. He just recently been with eddie bravo a few times. Eddie bravo isn't his primary instructor he's been with the longest.

lidell has been training bjj for the past 7 years. His standup training is more than just kenpo. He was also a thai boxing champ if I remember correctly. he has wrestled most of his life.

Your not going to win by pure kung fu alone. Most of the fighters push for bjj, wrestling, and boxing as well as muay thai. thats why it was a mma event. Because people got to cross train as well as phyical and mentail conditioning to get where they need to be.

yeah, pretty much what was said earlier - they are training for other sumo competitions. What happens to a pure bjj guy who enters mma now? nine times out of 10, he gets destroyed. does bjj suck? No, it's because the bjj guy isn't training for the venue he's fighting in. Put in mma guy in a sumo competition and see how he does...

there is no such thing as a "normal sport" when it comes to sport fighting. I hate when people try to make this distinction. sport fighting is just as much a martial art as karate, for example. And to be honest, they actually fit the bill MORESO these days, since they are the ones who are always fighting and using the fighting experience to get better. the sport arts, in that respect, personify the term "martial" better than the others. But to answer your question, yes, they all fall into the same category - they are all sport fighting arts... judo, mma, thai boxing, sumo, kickboxing, boxing, wrestling, can shou, etc.

there are already several threads that have comparisons between san shou, kickboxing and thai boxing. you can do a search and read them.

the main difference between kickboxing and muay thai is the face that muay thai only really uses front and round kick. but with kick boxing you learn all the basic kicks and spinning and jumping ones too. also you can knee and elbow in muay thai too. i think you should have a few lessons at both and then decide. personaly im thinking to making muay thai my main MA after doing two years at kickboxing (though i will still do KB) im not really enjoying all these spinning kicks and i like being able to grab hold of people and strike too. but then muay thai has its bad points too like the stance. but the only way you can really decide is by giving them both ago

thai boxing actually has all of those kicks... chances are you won't learn them though, as most people only teach what is most commonly used. Those are the teep, roundhouse and the spinning back kick.

there is nothing inherently wrong with the stance either. I assume you are talking about how high they hold the hands, and how the elbows flare. you have to remember that they are training to fight other thai boxers... the flared elbow helps to defend roindhouses that go straight up into the floating ribs. the high hands are to protect kicks to the head. If you notice, most REAL thai boxers don't punch that much. They prefer kicks, knees and elbows. A punch is usually to set up for something else. Also, they don't bob and weave like westernized thai boxers do - that is something we added from western boxing experience. the hands held high allow them to block the head shots - punches, kicks and elbows

No, it does not. you aren't training to keep a constant contraction - like you would if you were a body builder. You are training to contract harder at the moment of contraction. There is a difference. Also, in order to be so big and strong that you are stiff, you have to be HUGE. There are several body builders who can do a full split...

I'll go against the grain on this one - yes, you can use it for self defense. It is full of grappling (standing) sweeps, throws, etc. even some elementary palm strikes. it lacks some striking aspects, but that doesn't render it useless. You can say the same of judo. or muay thai (lacks grappling) ALL styles lack SOMETHING - even if they have it "in the system" they don't always train it enough to be effective with it.

bingo

same as a rolling pin - it conditions the shins. supposedly you bust the capillaries and kill the nerves in your shin.

there are sanctioned fights that allow them. Some sanctioning bodies in nevada allow them, as do some in colorado. We have actually been talking about getting me and another guy up to colorado to compete in some of them.

MTB, why do you rarely train them? I know they are illegal in most matches, but they are still a very important component of thai boxing.