elbows_and_knees

I believe it's excellent. it's not standalone though - you still have to put in the sparring time, forms training (if you do forms) and other hard work, but visualization is a great technique.

nah, you can't set a time limit on it.

i agree. i find kata movements 'fit' easily with haymakers and lapel grabs, or even just someone shaking their fist at you. i believe this is what they were intended for as well. i find in practice if someone attacks with rapid punch combos, a good throw attempt or a high kick, its difficult to use kata techniques in defence. doesn't mean they can't be used like that, but i really don't think that's what they're intended for. if someone starts kickboxing with me, its my kumite training i'll probably rely on rather than kata.

exactly.

I think that kata practiced in the form they are at many places today is completely useless. I even think understanding the bunkai is useless, if you aren't doing it correctly.

Once a form has been learned, you should be breaking each section of the form out into two person fighting drills. The drills should be modified slightly to reflect the way you want to move in a fight situation - narrower stance, etc.

I use them all the time in muay thi. when I trained karate, they were in the kata, but other than kata and self defense drills, we never trained them. back then, I would not have been able to use one in a fight, becuase we worked them so rarely.

We can't really tell you that - it's an individual thing. For me, it wasn't. I'm a laid back personality anyway, so I don't get stressed out, and don't have a problem focusing. Meditation in class never did much for me. the meditation we did at the end of yoga never did anything for me either, though I got a lot of benefit from the yoga itself.

I say it matters only one the fighting style each fighter knows. For taller fighters Muay Thai, boxing, kickboxing, and some grappling forms would be good, but for short people like me Aikido does the thing. Aikido is perfect for a short person against a taller person. A short person has an advantage if he/she begins the fight offensively and moving inward, being quick, as Soke always says, smaller fighters need to be quick and agressive, while taller fighters need to keep their distance for reach. So i say the more experienced and trained in the more useful art(for him/herself) would have the advantage. BUT... if none of the two fighters did not know how to fight and they just threw a street fight, i'd have to say the taller would win simply because of physical strength and more reach.

boxing and muay thai can be great for shorter guys.

Reach and weight are usually the advantages of the tall person.

That's one of the reason i never felt confortable when I was in TKD and we sparred with WTF sport Rules.

and rightfully so - TKD is a distance oriented sport. In muay thai, where the hands and elbows_and_knees are just as useful, angling and footwork kill the advantage of reach.

also, there is a style difference. the tkd butterfly kick looks like the tornado kick, as mentioned above. The chinese butterly kick looks like the pics that cathal posted.

ah k,

so when kicking with the right leg you will be spinning anti clockwise?

does anyone else call the other one a tornado kick?

with a chinese tornado kick, you land on the same foot you kicked with. Takes lots of hard work to get it that way. people who can't do it that way usually land with the opposite leg, and yeah, it can look like a butterfly kick.

Well thought out indeed.

In our particular school of Wing Chun, we have a priority of stance. You can tell what someone's intention is by their stance right off the bat. Boxers, kickers, wrestlers all have their stances. We deflect what punches or strikes we can going in, set up an angle, and crumple the stance. From there, it's your game.

From what I understand, Mantis has a bit in common with Wing Chun, you could try this little strategy out for yourself with friends and whatnot. It works like a CHARM.

"The arms are like the blades of a fan, the knees are the plug. Unplug the fan, and the blades won't do it much good."

Actually, that sounds A LOT like boxing...

it took me some time but after alot of thinking, reading, and asking my sifu and assisstant instructor many numerous questions i have formulated a main strategy for all martial artist but primarily kungfu especially since so many people have all these questions 2 whether or not Kungfu is actually effective in combat. I call it A.C.D.

A: analyze- since all fighters, do not fight the same and are not all, as deadly or difficult, because of this you must take time to view ur opponent, and analyze your oppenent to find many things before attacking. things such as : style of fighting( if you can tell ) which will sometimes reveal how ur may react to sertain moves, strike, or best moves but sometimes not all of this is sertain from just looking at ur opponents fighting style so U must keep and open mind, also u must then find out what type of threat level ur in to figure out some techniques ur opponent might use. if he is just trying to mess with u or is playing to much then his/her moves may not be as effective becasue they are not focused or just trying to make you look bad, so u can capsize own the fact that there is no will or strength behind there moves, and it shows that your in as much danger as ud be if u were fighting a person out for ur blood, because of that you do not have to use as much lethal moves as you would for a person trying to kill u.

C: control - however strong ur opponent may be, or how deadly they are after u first analyze ur opponent. next is 2 disable ur opponenet through taking control of ur opponent, if u just keep kicking and punching that person then unless u land a lucky shot then that person will probably just keep coming. and even if u do that could just make them even more angry which would raise the level of threat ur opponent is,instead take control of ur opponenet to stop them from being able to fight u anymore, and make the person like an action figure( your the one controling it , making it move, etc.) now they only do what u let them. there are many ways to do this, some by grappling, others by take downs whatever takes control that person.

and last 2nd D: destroy- simple as that once ur opponent has been takin conrtol of continue to do that but this is where u use strikes in succesion with ur conrtol taking moves. example: u have ur opponent in a arm trap and they cant get there other over to hit u. ( control) while that person is in the arm lock, knee him attack him to the face with a mantis backfist or another move, break his arm ( if that person had a level of threat needed for that) than take that arm and use it to throw them and after they are own the ground crush them under ur foot with a stomp.( if needed) and u have stoped that person from attacking, in other words destroyed. and thats my strategy in a nutshell, please reply to this and give me ur oppinion own this theory, it might need some work so i would love some helpful criticism.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like think this is good either for the ring or the street.

A. Analyzing is a good thing, but you are WAY overanalyzing anything that you will have time for in a fight. Fights start and end quickly. you don't have time to analyze stance - many times there will not even be a stance, just a sudden strike. I see / participate bar fights all the time. rarely does anyone assume any stance. I don't even assume a stance until after the fighting has begun, and while that is going on, things are too intense to be focusing on what stance a person is in. Also, by the way they are attacking, you cannot asset what intent they intend to do to you. I may only be punching you now because I don't see the bottle on the bar next to me. Once I see it, BAM! Also, with the high stress of the situation, you don't have time to think "Okay, I need to use lethal moves against this guy" you just use what comes out, which is going to be what is ingrained in you.

From a sport fighting perspective, you are usually told what style the guy practices beforehand, and if you do your legwork, can probably get video of the guy fighting, unless it's a local event. In this case, you do all of your analysis before the fight and train accordingly. I think your A is valid, but not in the context you are trying to put it.

C. you can strike and control a person. It's a boxing term called stalking. I keep you in the quadrant of the ring that I want you in by using aggressive footwork, making angles and cutting you off.

From a street perspective, it's not necessarily relying on a lucky punch. It's doing as you are trained - punching in combination. one shot may not KO him, but three or four might. I do agree that the easiest method to control him is grappling. However, by grappling, you do have to be careful that there are no other attackers. doesn't always happen that way, but it can happen.

D. Is the ultimate goal anyway... that's merely ending the confrontation and is not strategy related.

Those fight clips are pretty interesting to watch. The thing I don't like about san shou is that there is the throw, and then no follow up on the ground. It would seem like you should go to the ground and submit them then, but then it would be a different sport, I guess.

to go to the ground and submit them implies that they are not finished. Like I said before, with shuai chiao, the goal is to throw them hard onto their head. with judo, onto their back. Have you ever watched a person who doesn't know how to fall land flat on their back? what normall happens? their head impacts the ground. Naturally, this doesn't end all fights, but it can give you enough time to run away, which is really all that is needed, unless you are fighting multiple attackers.

With judo, there is no follow up either, if the person lands squarely on his back.

saying that your martial art is the best style is like saying that the sport you play is better than all other sports.

it doesnt have to be the best to give it your all, you just have to like it the best.

No, it's not. sports are drastically different. soccer and volley ball are nothing alike. basketball and cricket are nothing alike. martial arts tend to at least share the same basics, given they have the same methodology (grappling or striking). you can't say basketball is better than cricket, but you can say rugby is better than football, for example. I can't say muay thai is better than judo, but I could say that muay thai is better than american karate.

Note that I'm not saying muay thai is better than american karate, I'm just illustrating how you can make a difference if you want to.

A lot of good points here. I don't know if I'd disagree with it, but I'd question one of your bullets....-Does not think his/her style is better than another....I think believing your training in the best system is essential to giving it your all. If you don't believe that what your doing is the best way, why would you be doing it at all?

However, you don't have to be cocky or obnoxious about it to believe your style is the best.

I dunno... I don't think muay thai is the best out there, nor do I think capoeira and judo are the best out there. However, different people find different things to drive them. I like to compete. that is what drives me to give it my all. I have to make myself as good as I possibly can in order to maximize my chances of being victorious.

I agree being a honorable / good person is essential. I personally am saddened by the people that think martial arts are only about fighting. There is so much more to it. Remember the Okinawans are very peaceful people they fought to save their lives, that is how karate came to be.

There is more to it because we added things to it. it wasn't always there, as I stated above. Heck, even in the case of the okinawans. they may have been peaceful, but they weren't all good, humble and passive. However, when they attacked, THEY FOUGHT BACK - that is martial. that has nothing to do with a peaceful nature.

Also, I could be wrong, but wasn't te around before the 14th century?

Many people may have asked, "what is a ture martial artist?" Well, here are some points of a good martial artist.

-Trains to the best of his/her abilities and tries their hardest

-Shows respect and discipline towards themself and others

-Does not think his/her style is better than another

-Enjoys training in the martial arts

-Helps others who are in need

 

-Isn't cocky or arrogant about their martial art

There are many characteristics of a good martial artist. Please add on if you'd like to .

The catch about those that I've italicized is that they have nothing to do with improving your fighting skill. To me, a true martial artist is someone who is refined in the area of fighting and bases their approach to it based on experience and logic- being a nice guy or helping others makes you a nice guy- it doesnt make you a martial artist. I firmly believe that if you dont like those who are arrogant or have a bullying personality, learn how to fight better than they do.

I would respectfully disagree. I think being a good person is absolutely essential to being a true martial artist. Otherwise you are just a good fighter, but not a martial artst. I think ot all goes back to the philosophical roots of the arts.

the term martial in itself dictates war. a martial art is an art of war, nothing more. What happens is people become caught up in the nostalgic view what a martial artist should and shouldn't be. the shaolin temple combined there arts with philosophical, spiritual and other aspects, because they were monks.... those are things inherent to them. However, those teachings made their ways into arts they influenced in other countries as well. the japanese did the same - the samurai incoporated such into their teachings. But many of the samurai also engaged in homosexual activity... that is among things that aren't known, because it doesn't fit into that over romanticized view.

martial arts that pre-dated shaolin were about nothign other than learning how to fight. An excellent example of this is shuai chiao. In modern ages, MA that are not based on offshoots of anything shaolin influenced will not include these things either. boxing, wrestling - it's NOT becuase they are sports - they are very martial arts. Notice, you don't hear / learn about it in european arts, european sword arts included, AFAIK. krav maga would be another example.

That's not to say that bettering oneself spiritually and learning more philosophically are not good things - they are. However, you can partake in a religion for spirituality and read about philosophy. They are not prerequisites for a martial artist.

Many people may have asked, "what is a ture martial artist?" Well, here are some points of a good martial artist.

-Trains to the best of his/her abilities and tries their hardest

-Shows respect and discipline towards themself and others

-Does not think his/her style is better than another

-Enjoys training in the martial arts

-Helps others who are in need

 

-Isn't cocky or arrogant about their martial art

There are many characteristics of a good martial artist. Please add on if you'd like to .

The catch about those that I've italicized is that they have nothing to do with improving your fighting skill. To me, a true martial artist is someone who is refined in the area of fighting and bases their approach to it based on experience and logic- being a nice guy or helping others makes you a nice guy- it doesnt make you a martial artist. I firmly believe that if you dont like those who are arrogant or have a bullying personality, learn how to fight better than they do.

NICE... usually I'm the only one here who feels this way.

This sounds so much fun. It's a shame there isn't anywhere like that round here. The martial arts scene isn't exactly huge in north east England

check and see if you have an SCA branch near you.

These would already exist wouldn't they?!?

I've never seen one, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. I've seen double broadsword, but never one of each, not even double jian.

Anybody ever considered making a kata/fighting techniques for jian and dao, one in each hand? Maybe use the dao in your front hand, and the jian in the back? I got this idea a few days ago, and can't wait to try it out. Any tips?

considering the vast difference in technique, you'd likely have to be very coordinated to pull this off.

Do you believe in ghosts? the bible mentions, demons roaming, posessions, etc. These are supernatural.

"I don't hold a belt. A belt holds up my pants."

I remember San Shou having lots of protective gear: Head,Chest,Shin & Gloves. After watching those videos maybe things have changed.

maybe you saw amateur fights?

so, are there any major differences between san shou and muay thai?

san shou

allows throws

utilizes different strategies and prefers the sidekick to the front kick

because throws are allowed, people tend to attempt throws from the clinch instead of elbows_and_knees

derived from kung fu

muay thai

prefers elbows_and_knees from the clinch

does not allow throws, however some takedowns are acceptable

prefers the teep to the sidekick

there are other differences, but this is a start.