SubGrappler

I've already spoken with my instructor about cross training in a boxing/muay thai school. He pretty much told me to let him know of any schools I find, because hes looking to train in the same thing as well. I could understand an instructor perhaps getting upset with a student if their crosstraining affected their current schedule, but if its on an off night I dont see what the problem would be, especially if you're training in a complimentary style (i.e. a grappler who cross trains in striker or vice versa).

That may be, but they're DEADLY idiots.....

Thats not true. Adrenaline does a great job of sapping all of your energy from you. Adrenaline makes you feel great for about 10-20 seconds if you decide to go beserk and crazy. If you dont get the job done by then (or do significant damage) then you're in some trouble. Its not so much the skill of the individual in a fight that determines how quickly its concluded as it is the comparitive skill of BOTH the fighters (and weight disparity as well). For instance, Roy Jones Jr. could quickly defeat and knock out some scrub who has no training whatsoever, due mostly to the difference in experience between the two fighters. When he fights another professional boxer, it suddenly becomes a fight that becomes drawn out, because the other boxer knows how to defend properly and counterattack as well.

I believe your school is successfull because of the people who are involved in the organization. Carlinos organized the World Championships and has many quality fighters based out of his gym (in my opinion due to how well organized he is and past/current success of his team). Agreed- In the old days, BJJ fighters would defeat wrestlers, catch wrestlers, and luta livre fighters and claim that it was the gi that gave them the ede in technique. One thing Eddie noted, however, was that in watching the BJJ fighters in the early days, they had no combinations of attacks. When training with the gi, all their moves were reliant on the jacket, and their combos most often came from a collar choke setup/sweep option. I personally think the reason that BJJ fighters could beat out the no gi fighters of old was because its much easier to train "lightly" when you wear a gi. No gi is often hard to roll light in without the proper training partner, due to the lack of grips you are unable to control a spastic opponent. This would mean that a BJJ fighter was probably able to train more often and gain more experience. Even with the gi on, grappling experience is grappling experience. Personally, I feel that many people who insist that training with the gi makes one more technical (in no gi no less) are the ones who have either never trained no gi before or are unable to duplicate their success in no gi tournaments. Eddie gave a great analogy in his book to put the whole no gi vs gi argument into perspective- imagine that there was no wrestling as we know it today, and all matches were conducted like Judo matches. Suddenly, someone comes along and just does strictly no gi Judo, which becomes wrestling. People are often quick to dismiss Judo's effectiveness in MMA, citing lack of grips as a key reason, but for some odd reason insist that a BJJ fighter who trains with a gi is going to be more technical in no gi than another fighter who's experienced in no gi grappling. This is as much a double standard as you can have.

Thats like saying you like Boxing better than Muay Thai because it has jabs and crosses...... In other words, BJJ also has standup and ground games.

In comparison with 10 years ago, you are correct. If you want to speak of late, say in the past few years, submissions are in fact becoming more and more frequent Overall Finishing Method Statistics Percentage Submission = 46.44 Percentage KO/TKO = 27.63 Percentage Decision = 18.18 Other (Drawn, NCs, or Unknown) = 7.75

It will certainly be well worth it. In three months of BJJ you can expect to know the basic escapes from poor positions and a few basic finishes from dominant positions that can end up giving you a huge advantage over someone else not trained.

Jason Sasser. Has anyone heard of him? What rank is he (white, blue, purple, brown, black) and under which professor did he study? Most importantly, which one gave him his current rank, and does he hold an affiliation to anyone if hes below black belt (i.e. Affiliated with Team Megaton for instance).

I can throw a few thoughts into the process. #1- realize that once you start learning a grappling art, you are once again a pure beginner (blackbelts in Kempo, Karate, TKD, etc mean absolutely nothing- grappling is not striking). I only say this one because its often that I hear people coming in to check out the BJJ class and brag about how they arent a real beginner, or that they should start with honorary rank due to being a black belt in another style (i.e. an Aikido guy who thought he should start off as purple belt). 2. its going to take much longer to get your black belt in BJJ than it did in whatever you're training in. Short of Capeiora, BJJ is probably the single longest time between a white belt and a black belt. 15 is a great age to start BJJ, because it'll take about 10-15 years for you to get a Black belt in that. Basically this means that if it took you 2-3 years to get a black belt in your current style, and after 2-3 years in BJJ you're still a white belt, dont be discouraged. 3. Be sure to double check whatever school it is you decide to train at. There is quite a difference between Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and regular Ju Jitsu.

Heres the question that causes the "stuff" to hit the fan. Who is to determine who is a reputable person and who is not? If you're never allowed to use a death touch, how do you in fact know that it works, or that you're even doing it right? How do you know you're even being taught how to do it right if your instructor himself has never used the technique before? Who then becomes the leading authority on something that is completely theoretical? To me, the whole "too deadly to use" argument is a cop out for people who are either unsure of themselves or their techniques, or know outright that they are teaching false techniques. I am, of course, referring to any type of "death touch" as opposed to someone who simply uses pressure points.

If you look hard enough, Im sure you'd be able to find a full contact Jiu Jitsu tournament somewhere around you. These are very popular from what I understand in Europe. Basically, you wear the kimono and such, but strikes are allowed standing ( I dont know about the ground). I think it looks pretty cool because you get to see some nice strikes trading back and forth, but you also get to see some nasty Judo throws which are seldom seen in MMA matches.

This has already been debated to death. UFC and other mixed martial arts organizations heavily favor strikers over grapplers. This is especially true of the UFC where the primary audience is American, which has a long tradition of boxing and doesnt quite understand the grappling game (like the Japanese, for example).

Thats because his stuff doesnt work. Read the prior posts- hes already been exposed, more times than once. Stephan Bonner and the rest of Carlson Gracie's team in Chicago did a good job of stepping up to, but not getting knocked out, by Dillmans death touch.

..or then not, if all you need is already included in one system. Depends on who's teaching it. Yes, karate may have takedowns and grappling. Yes, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Judo have strikes in their curriculum. The bottom line is though that just because its in there or just because they practice it DOES NOT make them good. Any BJJ fighter that had good standup learned it from a different style, be it boxing, muay thai, or whatever else. Any striker who had good groundwork learned it from a grappling art, be it wrestling, BJJ, or Judo.

Belts go white, blue, purple, brown, black. IF you make it to black belt, the general accepted time frame is 10-12 years of training. 90% of the people who ever train jiu jitsu never make it to purple belt. Blue is probably the fastest belt you can achieve. The average for a quick blue belt is 6-9 months, but can take as long as 2-3 years. Purple generally takes awhile to get, 4 years for a quick purple belt, otherwise normally 5-7 years for a purple. Brown is another one that takes a long time- about 6 years for a quick brown belts, generally 7-9 for regulars. The coveted black belt takes at least 8 years to get for quick ones, though there are exceptions. Generally 10-12 years total training time. Some people get belts quicker or may advance early at a quick pace, but the time frames usually work themselves out rather well (i.e. a quick purple may spend a long time before getting his brown). The other thing to take into account is that unless you're training with a black or brown belt, its difficult to keep finding good training partners as you yourself advance. Some people begin teaching at purple, others at brown, usually because they want to make some money. Time spent teaching is time you cant spend training (higher ranked belts generally do not train as much as lower ranked belts because they refine their techniques whereas lower ranked belts have to develop techniques).

Now you're talking about cross training. No one is debating this field. In the world of mixed martial arts, striking is just as important as grappling. Fighters dont neccesarily win based on their style so much anymore as they win because they were better prepared than their opponent. What I have italicized says it all. If the striker has good takedown defense (like ex Division 1 wrestler Chuck Liddel) then he can utilize his strikes on the feet rather well. Problem is, most strikers in the world of martial arts have NO takedown defense whatsoever, let alone a poor attempt at one. Without cross training, a pure grappler defeats a pure striker much more than just half the time. This is simply because forcing a clinch is a relatively easy thing to do. When a grappler and a pure striker get in a clinch, it becomes a huge mismatch which the grappler often wins.

I disagree- pain compliance works if you manage to take advantage of the situation before it escalates into a full fledged fight. Once someone has their endorphins flowing through their system, pain compliance is much much more difficult. I agree, but unfortunately there are many who make that claim with a false impression such as the Dillman canidates.

I dont think there are any 12 year olds who deserve to have a black belt. Im not saying you're supposed to be invincible, but a black belt should be an adequate teacher capable of backing what he teaches (i.e. make the move work against a resisting opponent). Because black belt was so highly regarded say, back in the 70s, it gives many people the misconception that black belt= trained and deadly fighter. A 12 year old will not be able to defend himself against a grown man, but he may feel that he can, for no other reason than hes a black belt.

What style of Tang Soo Do doesn't strike to the head? Many schools train with no punches to the head due to the risk of injury during sparring,... it's not that there IS no punching to the head in the style,... it's just to prevent people from going home bloody... I wanted to learn TSD for fighting purposes as opposed to simply having a good time. If the kids, women, and whoever else prefer not to have contact to the face thats fine, but I because of this rule I never really was taught a whole lot on how to defend against basic punches to the head. Continuous sparring with contact to the face is more what I liked.

We're not debating that- in fact thats exactly what we're saying. People train in ways that are detached from reality. For instance, learning how to defend against a double leg when no one you know has the ability to do so. Its like learning to defend a punch from an untrained brawler who telegraphs and swings wide- it feels fine until I go against a boxer who knows what hes doing an I get knocked out because his punches are quick, setup, and straight. This: And This: Are what disturbs us. Most likely the stance wont work. You wouldnt expect a wrestler to come out in a 3 points stance when hes in a fight. He can in a wrestling match because theres no strikes, just as theres no takedowns in karate. As far as it taking too long to train in, many wrestlers wrestle for more than 10 years and still practice their basic techniques (singles and doubles, pummeling drill, ankle picks, etc) once their in college, so I doubt this is the reason why they dont use stancework from karate.

Yes, but isn't that fighting dirty? I'm not saying training grppling is bad, just that I think staying on your feet is better in a nasty situation where you could face multiple aggressors. A standing submission tho, in which you retain more mobility, is probaly a better option. but thas imo, which doesn't really matter And a grappler is well aware of that which is why he'll be able to protect himself from being thrown to the ground. In the event you fight somene bigger than you though, fighting on the ground would be the better option.

Seriously doubt that. Have you ever had someone throw a double leg on you? At most elbows to the top of the head hurt, but all the momentum that was built up as a result of the shot isnt going to just "stop" once you throw that elbow- its going to hurt him a little, but the slam you recieve after he picks you up is going to more than even the score. We never said it was- we simply refute common misconceptions that people have about defending takedowns (i.e. throw an elbow to their head or a knee in their face when they shoot). Clinches are almost impossible to stop- if someone wants to clinch, hes going to- its what you do in the clinch that determines whether you stay on your feet or not. Unless you literally run away from your opponent (or knock him out very quickly), one of these two is going to happen. In case you wonder why, in order to throw any punch or kick that has sufficient knockout power, you HAVE to root your feet in the ground. It is at these precise moments that you're vulnerable to either a clinch or a shot attempt. [

You have to define what you mean when you say "work." If by causing pain you mean work, then pressure points sometimes work. I've had people try to use pressure points on me as well, and they did nothing- they certainly didnt do what they had in mind when they tried to use them. Pain compliance isnt something I feel should be heavily relied on. Many people can ignore pain, not to mention that alcohol and drugs can greatly dull the effects of it. Adrenanline is even more powerful. For those unaware, the human body has two chemicals which could be considered "pain killers"- one of these chemicals is 100 x more effective than morphine. Pressure points have their place, but I dont feel they should be relied on. They exist in many styles, even BJJ. For example, a cross face from the back mount is a kind of pressure point attack to get your opponent to lift his jaw. A bicep slicer is often used by fighters to break the grip when another fighter holds his arm to prevent it from being hyperextended when caught in an armbar.

Where are you moving too? Start looking for an academy there now so you dont have to at the last minute.

There goes that assumption again. You are assuming that you will have time for a second kick. take someone like tyson who was great at getting inside anyway - do you think you could nail him with two kicks before he got in on you? Agreed- look at your argument from a boxer's point of view: A boxer will have better hand skills and better cominations that a karateka. You say if you dont take him down with the first kick, the second will, meanwhile when you're planning to throw that kick, hes planning to throw his punch. The way he sees it is "if I dont set him up for a knockout with the first combination, surely the second one will do it."