SubGrappler

Abu Dhabi has helped submission grappling grow in leaps and bounds over the past couple of years, so much more than the past thousand years have done in fact. Submission wrestling is starting to blend all aspects from all different types of grappling arts. People are no longer "BJJ" fighters, or "Judo" or "Wrestling." People are adding anything effective they find from any other style. In fact, the surprising thing at this years Abu Dhabi was how the BJJ fighters were using well executed footlocks, which was considered a rariety. People are learning how to utilize takedowns, footlocks, and all different kinds of maneuvers. Submission wrestling is incorporating all kinds of techinques now from different styles, and though no one has been labeled a "catch wrestler" in Abu Dhabi, I find it hard to believe they would bring anything new to the table (not that they havent contributed already).

Theres no minimum requirement for how long it takes to get a BJJ black belt- its just the natrual progression of things that happens to take that long to learn. I could literally count the number of people on one hand who have recieved their black belt in 5 years or less. Trying to get a black belt in time sooner is like someone who starts working out monday in preperation for his high school reunion on friday, and he wants to lose 20 lbs by then. In all seriousness, I dont take people seriously who try to figure the quickest way to get a black belt. Even at black belt, theres still so much to learn, and I've seen many a fighter who's been a black belt only to get handled once they face the quality competitors in the sport. Regardless if Lloyd gives you a black belt in 4 years or not, the color of the belt around your waist isnt going to make you any more or less of a fighter. I'd rather be a dominanting blue belt, than a good purple or an average brown belt. In the end, once you start throwing the hands, the belt isnt going to dictate how well you fight.

Shootfighting is an offshoot of what used to be catch wrestling. I believe it was Karl Gotch who taught the Japanese catch wrestling, which eventually evolved into shootfighting. Basically, you're allowed to punch (and kick I believe) as well as grapple. You're not allowed to punch to the head, and strikes on the ground are forbidden. Essentially its alot like no gi judo, but with strikes on the feet as well. That about all I can say about it.

Its a technique or method of fighting thats attained through positional dominance, so no, there arent really any "drills" where you practice beating the hell out of someone else. For example, no one needs to be "taught" how to punch someone when they're mounted on someone else. The hard part isnt punching the guy, its getting that position in the first place. Most grapplers who are ground and pound practice grappling the same way any other grappler would.

Not neccesarily, even though clinching IS a part of Muay Thai, boxing, and kickboxing (ISKA) clinch fighting is only allowed in Muay Thai. Clinch fighting is much more a part of grappling than muay thai. Wrestling and other grappling arts dont simply have double leg takedowns as a means of taking someone down, even though this is often seen in mixed martial arts competitions. If you watch something as simple as high school wrestling, you'll see alot of clinch work being used, and you'll even notice that when wrestlers use doubles and singles, they often set it up from the clinch. Natrually, the clinch is even more so a part of grappling in specific styles such as Greco Roman Wrestling and Judo

It seems as if we're picking each others posts apart, while at the same time are somewhat in agreement about the initial subject: Eye gouges, Biting, and groin shots are not the fight enders many people think they are, but can be of use in a real fight.

If you're talking about two fighters trained in one particular style, the first MMA events proved that grapplers hold the edge in this particular fight. In the world of MMA, neither is particularly superior to the other. Today's fights are concluded with hand techniques AS WELL AS kicks, knees, wrestling, and submission techniques. The fact of the matter is though that being able to throw your hands is much more important than learning how to kick (otherwise TKD would be tearing up the charts). Dont assume that just because the fighters you mentioned are particularly good with kicks (I cant believe you didnt mention CroCop) this means they substituted it for their punching skills. Their kicking skills complimented their hand skills, which allowed them to get their victories. As far as wrestling goes, its hard to beat an experienced wrestler regardless of what styles you study. Theres no doubt it is one of the best- whether or not it IS the best will be debated for a long time. Thats the point Im getting at. Im not saying that eye gouging and biting dont have a place in a fight- they certainly do, but WAY too many people overestimate how much of a place they have. Do you have any idea how many people believe they could end a fight immediately, even against a professional mixed martial artist, by simply eye gouging or biting? Its a bit more difficult than that. You're forgetting one thing about the Nakai Gordeau fight- this is supposed to emulate real combat. In this particular situation, Gordeau ignored the rules and Nakai had to suffer because of it. In a real life situation, Gordeau gets the worst of it, because he doesnt just get a broken ankle- Nakai breaks his leg, and proceeds to choke him to death, or beat him to death. Tank also tried fish hooking against Oleg Taktarov in UFC 6, and the match ended up with him getting choked out. While his eye gouges may of helped him during his fight, was it that or his slugging/wrestling skills that allowed him to get the upper edge and win the fight?

One of the important things about wrestling is to have complimentary moves. There was a guy I used to train with who would only shoot for the legs, and would telegraph heavily by STARING straight at his opponents legs. This will make anyone ready with a sprawl. Firstly, you should only shoot if you're close enough to touch your opponent. Shots from any distance further are simply too far away and a waste of energy. Secondly, do you try to tie up and clinch at all, or do you only shoot doubles? If you only try one move, perhaps thats why your opponents seem to defend it. Lastly to set up the double. Make sure to keep your sights eye level so you dont give away what you want. Ideal times to shoot are when your opponent is moving towards you, or if he crosses his feet while he shuffles from side to side. Try this basic shot setup- put your hand on your opopnents forehead. When your opponent reaches up to remove your hand, shoot in for the leg. If your opponent doesnt have good posture when he wrestles, you could also try to snap his head down, shooting immediately after doing so.

Kenpo = Karate

No style really had ground and pound. Its just a natrual progession of a fight- it goes to the ground, and one guy happens to be on top- might as well take a swing at him. Mark Coleman was one of the first people who popularized the ground and pound game, and most wrestlers fight with this strategy. The thing with ground and pound is that it doesnt need to be taught in the same way that striking on the feet does. On the feet, successful striking relies on good timing, good combinations, and good counters. This does not hold true on the ground, because mobility is so limited. Positioning skills are more important for ground and pound in this respect.

The one topic which showed him in a fight vs Royce Gracie had lots of people bringing down heat on him. The only reason why I think people stopped questioning him was because he actually came here and responded.

Thats the problem that uneducated fans of mixed martial arts have though- they see someone who's labeled a "striker" and easily defends against the clinch attempts of someone who's labeled a "grappler" and assume that its just that easy. All of these fighters are excellent in all ranges of combat and have had extensive private training by top professionals in each area of expertise. These guys have people like Randy Couture teaching them the basics of the clinch and Chuck Liddel teaching them the basics of the striking game. These are guys who are pros in those areas and havent just been exposed to it.

Balance, coordination, strenght, endurance ,agility, and a strong base are a few things that would benefiit a martial artist. you dont think having excelent balance and being able to avoid takedowns and scramble back to your feet could possibly be useful in a street fight? Dont forget the ability to be able to take a dangerous striker out of his element and into your own.

If that statement were to be true, than that means that something like Tae Kwon Do, with its immese popularity throughout the world, would have countless numbers of represenatives in mixed martial arts events. Far more people practice Tae Kwon Do and Karate than do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. In today's mixed martial arts venue, yes, its the fighter, and not the style, because everyone is crosstrained. If you have training in only one particular style, then that means a lot. You're not going to know how to wrestle if you've only trained in TKD, likewise you're not going to know how to throw your hands if you've only wrestled. MMA popularized specific styles, but take it a bit further, theres nothing drastically special about those styles other than the fact that they train full contact very often. By using the same training techniques, any style you train in could be proven effective.

Overestimated? Why would you say that? that take place and have taken place. Please provide us with more specific information. I'll gladly volunteer First off, no sanctioned MMA event in the US or Japan has ever "allowed" biting or eye gouging. This does not mean that such tactics never occured. During the infancy of MMA, biting and eye gouging were against the rules, but the only results of trying such tactics meant a fine- fights were never stopped. A classic example of both eye gouging and biting attempts during a fight was when Gerard Gordeau fought against Yuki Nakai in Japan Vale Tudo 95. Gordeau is a notoriously dirty fighter, and outweighed Nakai but a full 100lbs. During the fight, Gordeau gouged Nakai's eye seriously enough that he was permanently blinded by it. Gordeau also took a chunk out of his shoulder/ neck with a nice chomp. Nakai kept fighting, and eventually secured a heel hook for the win. Gordeau would attempt his crude tactics again when he was invited to the very first UFC. In the finals, he would attempt to bite his opponents ear off to avoid the grappling game. This only infuriated one determined Royce Gracie, who proceeded to take his back, lock in a choke, and refuse to release it after Gordeau tapped. Then there was a grossly miscoordinated and fat fighter in the name of Jon Hess who used all manners of eye gouging during his fights, regardless of their legality. His fight with Andy Anderson is a good example of this. While he defeats Andy Anderson, he is pummeled into a coma induced state when he fights Vitor Belfort, showing that boxing skills were far more important during the fight than attempting to gouge out someone's eyes. Close enough to bite me is close enough to bite you. Close enough to eye gouge me is close enough to eye gouge you. What makes the difference now is positional superiority, which is a trained skill. Eye gouging, biting, and groin shots have their place in a fight, but are hardly the fight enders that people believe they are. Biting hurts- groin shots hurt, but adrenaline will overcome these tactics. Eye gouging sucks, but god forbid you either move your head or simply close your eyes.

G&P is simply hitting someone from any top position in grappling. Some fighters use it exclusively (Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture) some hardly utilize it instead relying on submissions (Nogueira) and some have an excellent combo of the two (Fedor)

I believe his real name is Christopher...... I would seriously recommend staying away from him, regardless of how many fortune cookie proverbs he tries to use to lure you in.

While I am also more comfortable fighting off my back, I seriously disagree with not having to worry about getting tapped out when in the bottom mount. Bottom mount is one of the worst places to be caught in a fight, be it a grappling match or an actual fight.

Ortiz was a Ground and Pound wrestler who executed his gameplan well, and that fight was anything but boring (although it was rather lopsided). As far as it being easier to G&P than submission, thats natrually obvious- a submission stands a high chance of instantly ending a fight. Ground and pound punishes and wears people down rather than knock the them out outright (i.e. knockouts are reserved to a constant battering effect as opposed to a flash knockout as seen on the feet). Its difficult to punch from inside someones guard, especially if they've got good skills from their back. This is one of the reasons why I prefer the submission game. Submission fighters are ALWAYS a threat at any time during a match. Case example would be Nogueira vs Cro Cop- all it took in one of the most lopsided fights was Nog to take advantage of one successfull takedown and end the fight. Ground and pound fighters cant always do the same. Sean Sherk vs Matt Hughes is an example I use for that one. Both are great G&P fighters and it wasnt until the 4th round of their fight that Sherk was able to put Hughes on his back, but he needed more time than he had in order to effectively finish him because his submission skills werent on par with his wrestling skills.

Yes he has, but I dont think his striking is going to be a threat to anyone he fights.

Two recent examples I can think of of fighters getting hit in the groin and getting no referee stoppage are Trigg vs Hughes and Liddell vs Overeem. Interestingly enough, both Hughes and Liddell won their respective fights after catching some rather hard shots to the groin.

Banana peel, Bridge to butterfly gaurd with sweep, heel hook/foot lock escape, then their is the one where you put your feet in their arm pits and push them off of a high mount. Allthough the ones you mention are the bread and butter escapes I have used all of those others succesfully. I dont know what the banana peel is, but all the other escapes require the use of a bump and roll, or an elbow escape. For example, you cant do the heelhook or footlock combo unless you elbow escape to put yourself into that position. Bridge to butterfly guard is a bump, just minus the roll. Feet in the armpits is what I referred to as the backdoor escape, and I dont feel it works well against anyone with half decent jiu jitsu.

Banana peel, Bridge to butterfly gaurd with sweep, heel hook/foot lock escape, then their is the one where you put your feet in their arm pits and push them off of a high mount. Allthough the ones you mention are the bread and butter escapes I have used all of those others succesfully. I dont know what the banana peel is, but all the other escapes require the use of a bump and roll, or an elbow escape. For example, you cant do the heelhook or footlock combo unless you elbow escape to put yourself into that position. Bridge to butterfly guard is a bump, just minus the roll. Feet in the armpits is what I referred to as the backdoor escape, and I dont feel it works well against anyone with half decent jiu jitsu.

Lets look at things from another angle though. Grapplers already needed to learn the standup game, because the strikers were the first ones to start crosstraining and learning takedown defense. Its hard enough as is to take down many of todays mixed martial artists. From a different perspective, frequent standups mean that strikers dont need to learn a whole lot of grappling in order to succeed in a match- if one gets taken down, all he needs to do is hold the match so that the guy on top cant do anything productive, and this leads to a referee break. In a real fight, you cant hold someone to death. Indeed, this is Mark Laimon's preferred way to use the guard in MMA (hold on for a ref break or until you regain your feet).

Pressure points to the face are exactly what you DONT want to do while you're mounted. For one, your opponent has a considerable positional advantage over you when he has the mount. Trying to do pressure points wouldnt yield great results, because he can simply move his head away from your hands. You, on the other hand, are braced against the ground, which means that he has considerably more control over you. The second reason, as was mentioned, is that if you extend your arms from the bottom of the mounted position, you're giving your opponent a perfect opportunity for a clean armbar attempt. If you want to use pressure points, save them for the positions in which YOU hold the advantage (i.e. YOU have the mount, or the back mount) and not your opponent. Theres only two escapes from the mounted position- the bump and roll, or "upa" and the elbow escape. Some people may argue the back door escape, but I dont believe it to be effective against anyone worth their merit.