Kajukenbopr

But can you assume that you know when the attacker will attack? Will he attack just once? There are a lot of assumptions that it may be unsafe to make in self-defense. However, once you start attacking, that does not mean that the attacker will freeze up and not attack back. Don't get me wrong; I think that some of the techniques shown in the videos are sound. Nor am I discounting what the stylists do. However, there are some things there that coincide with what some other styles do as well. Styles that make the transtition to competiton, as well. true, that is why you practice both the defenses and the fighting. well taught kung fu has both the defenses, or form applications, and the fighting, or sanshou,sanda, or freesparring.

These videos are also pre-arranged choreography. Most show the attacker stopping after one initial attack. I am not going to discount the vialbilty of these styles from these videos, but the videos don't show much more than a one-step, from what I saw. these videos portray self defense. self defense doesnt imply having an all out fight on the street- before it escalates into a fight, an attacker doesnt know IF or WHEN you will attack, giving u an opening to hit where it counts and leave. Kenpo practitioners say that the best way to defend yourself(not fight) is to do it in less than 5 seconds- if it takes longer than that, its officially a "fight" and the situation gets riskier when the attacker is expecting you to try to harm them. these videos obviously cant show the full depth of chinese martial arts but they do present good examples of material that works if applied correctly.

these videos are kung fu, not mma. i dont need to prove kung fu works. people who dont understand what they train for, damage the reputation, and yes, people can lose a fight even when they're really really good; to use mma examples matt hughes and chuck lydell - both excellent mma, both have been beaten. as for anyone wanting to say that fine motor skill goes out the window when in a stressful environment let me remind you that repetitive training develops muscle memory: you dont have to think about the technique, the technique, or movements, come out as a reflex. And finally, you can argue that weapons make martial arts obsolete, but we choose to train to better ourselves both physically and spiritually. Even a toddler can aim a gun and shoot;a martial artist can develop the power to hurt or heal another.

i agree. most people,specially in America have never heard of the styles: bajiquan,piguaquan, tong bei, mian quan, fanzi, mizong(jet li's fearless),yiquan. most material out of china is wushu but you can still get material that really works( just look for applications, not just the forms).

u know, ive never had a chance to do much push-hands. mainly cause my main ma is external and not internal, but I really do think internal arts can help me develop my martial arts

I am wondering what exercises people from different styles use as internal training, be it: meditation(seated or moving), chi kung, katas, or any other way to train internally. Hopefully we can learn from each other

I like the palm both to the torso and the head. but the hits could be fatal if with enough force at the right place.

I seek to better myself(in general) through training.

if what you say is true, then muay thai is a very incomplete style because it lacks grappling and ground techniques. but surely you consider yourself a complete martial artist because you round it up with judo. your style is deficient and you change your training( from muay thai to grappling) but it is not part of your original style. Then, YOU changed the way your martial arts trains in. The practitioner determines how the martial art develops- either keep it in a pure form or modify it, but the style in itself in fact has worked for other people before, even if today you dont know how to use it.

1. not all cma schools teach san shou. Heck, not even all of them spar. And of the ones that do spar, the sparring is sometimes either point style or continuous. Neither of those are sufficient for full contact training and fighting. 2. there are nuances of the ring that need to be trained regardless of being able to "hold your own". In addition, you have to train for the fight - that includes everything from training for a specific opponent (if you know who he is) to training for the length of the rounds so that your timing doesn't get messed up. Notice that I am speaking about training for the ring, what a person thinks they can do in the street is irrelevant to my post. it's the training methods and the style. Then the practitioner. The person that teach you is teaching according to his style, no? whether he is good or bad, the practitioner is teaching you a style. Everything you are doing is based on that style. But actually, we can classify it two different ways. for the ring: training methods style pracitioner for the street: training methods practitioner style IMO, anyway. In China they do teach sanshou or Sanda, depending on the style. IF they CHOSE not to teach it like that in the US or Europe, that is their problem. at the very least, the styles have 2 man drills which develop fighting ability. The teacher tells you how to train, even if he was taught differently.

your teacher doesnt have to teach you how to train for full contact sports if you can hold your own. yes, it can help in the street if you know how to handle mma competitions, but chinese full contact sparring(sanshou) should me more than enough. it is not the the style it is the practitioner; like Iron Arahat mentioned, if your teacher doesnt know how to teach you correctly, that single practitioner leads the rest of his student to incorrectly train.

http://www.cmaod.com/SpecialMilitaryForceDVD.html

1. the origin of the style really doesn't matter. they have changed SO much over the years that they are now their own styles. In addition, several styles - jujutsu (no verifiable link) and thus judo, bjj, etc have no link to china. western grappling systems don't either. In fact, EVERY culture since the beginning of time has had some indigenous wrestling art. 2. forms and applications are fine and good, but are only part of the picture. 3. why do people still care? if you don't like the lack of respect a style gets, there are really only two things you can do about it - do what you can to change it, or let it go. In this day and age, it is no secret that CMA guys typically get owned in mma although there are some good fighters competing. As long as they are losing, it will NEVER be a style that is taken seriously as a style used in mma. And mma is becoming the new boxing, so kung fu will also have a lack of respect among the general population. It will remain this way until at least two kung fu guys become successful in major mma shows. Most kung fu practitioners dont train for ring oriented fights. you can say they have not been PORTRAED well on mma competitions, but its not because they dont work, it is not the style, its the practitioner. depending on the environment, the rules and the place, the styles will change and be set. MMA fights are only part of the picture for kung fu

relaxed until impact... its not as easy as it sounds... in xing yi it is practiced until perfect and it takes a long while.

actually, a couple of schools from the US to practice with us down here in Puerto Rico. The material is pretty much the same, however, the way they train is not the same and while our school only charges $5 per month to buy supplies: kicking pads, and so on,: they charge $80 per month. I can afford to pay $80 per month but I'm glad I dont have to. I've also noticed we usually have more contact in our schools here(and in Hawaii) than in the Continental States.

You might be right about that. Even the gals I know that LOVE contact don't brag about their bruises like us guys do. Then you've never met me. I always brag about my bruises, though I'm not quite sure why she LOVES a good brawl!! what can i say? we can take a hit!

its a guy thing...

That is something that we do not worry about in our school. If your technique doesn't work or look right, then you need more reps. happens with all styles. the different schools have different stories. you should see the differences in our schools

i think its safe to say not every style has 80-90 year olds practicing the arts. China has elderly people performing their kung fu well into their80s and 90s. I havent seen any practitioners(meaning various, not just one) from styles all over the world that can still move well after 70.

could you explain the "side specific" part of blocks? To my knowledge blocks can be done in any direction at all: an upwards or downwards block for a straight punch. an inside or outside block to get right in front of the attacker, or out of his way. an open handed block to stop or stun an attacker(or his limbs). Karate Blocks are stated to be very versatile, because you only have a few which are then applied in a number of situations, not just one. In Kung Fu, Wing Chun, one of the best blocking there is(i dare say, in the world) has a lot of different blocks which are constantly trained for flinch reaction time. You cant think of the block or the opponent hits you, you just do any of the blocks. Karate isnt as fast as Wing Chun, but it compensates on strength where it lacks speed.

I completely agree. Thats what my post a while back called "The Reality Gap" was all about. And in my opinion its far more realistic to be aware that when you are completely surprised you will flinch, and when you are in a high stress situation you will lose access to fine motor skills and let your training reflect that, instead of trying to work against what is going to happen. In this way, your training will be based on tactics that work from a flinch and include predominently gross motor skills, has opposed to assuming you will be perfectly aware of everything thats happening and be able to pull of a fairly specific block and counter with fine motor based techniques. the movements of tai chi,bagua, hsing i, even with the complex body mechanics, and the internal implications, are done in relatively simple manner; the arms and legs are put in natural and comfortable positions. if you accustom your body to move one way, even when flinching, the reaction right after the flinch will be the move that the body is accustomed to performing before another more primal response

I believe that your Tai Chi training emphasises soft chi kung where as Mantis.style's training emphasises the hard chi kung. The softness in Tai Chi emphasises the flow of energy through the tandien(s) and the cultivation of chi. This is only truly understood by one who trains it and for a long time. There is no magic about it, there are secrets, but definitely no magic. I have never come across any authentic kung fu teacher that has described this aspect of kung fu as magic. I am afraid that it is all about patience, diligence and plain old Hard Work (that is, kung fu). There are "softer" schools of Southern Mantis as well, but I suspect that Mantis.Style does not practice in one of those. In harder schools of chinese kung fu it is more difficult to appreciate the subltleness of chi cultivation as regards to arts such as Tai Chi Chuan, whose basis and ultimate aim is to use this force for combat and yes it does take 10 years to make effective, that is just its nature. To achieve a body that possesses the "silky softness" necessary for tai chi combat takes a long time. Note: I believe the core training in southern mantis emphasises tendon training on equal basis, if not more, than external muscle training. although i do believe its not easy to learn, I dont think it takes as long as 10 years to make effective. maybe 10 years to "master" or become a teacher

it doesnt matter where his attacking hand is because you are not trying to intercept his fist for example: if someone is throwing a punch at you, you block trying to hurt his arm, elbow, forearm or shoulder( obviously moving out of the way first), not intercepting the fist so you can hit back, that would be a complete waste of effort. Also, the leg positions and the hand positions are not supposed to look like a boxing position, while you could argue those are better positions than the ones in Karate if you feel they are superior. as for the comment about reaction to the opponent's attack, yes, you are right they are moving first,however that doesnt mean you will think which block will work better, move back to chamber the arm and then try to block. With your training you should know which blocks work better against different attacks. training with chambered arms help you learn the body mechanics more easily( keeping your elbows down and back, using all the muscles instead of just the arm, etc)

Kajukenbo Self defense - 3.5 years Yi Quan- 2 years baguazhang- 1 year

Any proof? As far as the whole "formal" way of blocking, i.e., crossing the amrs, executing the block with one arm, and pulling the other hand back to the ribs, I don't think will happen a whole lot in a fight, and neither would it be wise to pull your off hand out of your window of defense. However, I do think that a solid block with the forearm can work in self-defense, but its motion will not be to the extreme that it is seen in forms. The arm will move from its position (be it guarding, down, up, or whatever) into the block position, with a hard, jolting snap, if trained properly, while the other arm can be held in the window of defense. After the block, the same arm can lead into a counter. you are thinking like a boxer. Blocks(in karate) are supposed to be quick, but they are not "slaps", the block is supposed to be as hard as a strike because they are designed to hurt the opponents limb, not guide the blow out of the way. besides, the only reason why blocks and punches are practiced at the side of the ribs is to use the strength of the arm and the back when you strike, as opposed to getting ur elbow high up before attempting to strike. When you fight you dont pull your arms back all the way(you do protect your face and body from strikes, but your body will be accustomed to keeping ur elbows down without hunching forwards.