Tim Greer

Well, yeah, that's basically it, I guess, it it's essence. I mean, realistically, you're training and preparing to deal with a conflict with the outcome being pain to one or more people, including yourself. You can't learn and know how to use a skill, unless you get used to the variables and aspects involved in it. It's like trying to learn how to ride horseback by watching videos, getting used to sitting on a saddle and bouncing around and think that's preparing yourself to really ride one day. No thanks, I'll choose the route to safely and effectively learn how to handle a horse and ride a saddle and just start doing it, step by step, if need be. You just have to do it. You can blind fold yourself, tie your legs together, while balancing on bricks over a 1,000 foot drop into a raging river with your shoe strings untied, but I'd prefer to spend more time being involved in real aspects of real fighting techniques and environments with different people, going all out, as much as is reasonable. That's not to say that certain things don't help you develop skills or improve upon them, just that the only want to really be ready for something, is to get as much experience as you can, by really doing it. Exercises and whatnot can certainly help, but they are absolutely no replacement for really doing it. That's all there is to it, you just have to do it.

I think one of the main key aspects, and this is no secret to any of us, is just going and doing it. Doing it as fast, hard and real as you can, with as many different type's of people, with as many different types of skills and personalities, sizes and strengths as you can. Take it to the limits and just don't get hurt. The more you do it, the less you'll get hurt. Just do it. All the training in the dojo is great, useful and valuable, but be it within the dojo, outside, with friends, at your house, at a park, whatever. Just go for it. Sure, you might get hurt, but that's part of the learning, part of building the talent, getting that real life experience. If you don't want to get hurt again, you better get better, faster and improve your fighting and technique(s). Realistically, that's the only interactive way you're going to get better, is by doing it, and not just tag or light sparring. That's all fine and has it's place, but so does anything else that is more real. It has to be real, to give you a real skill that you can use in a real fight. Other methods to help develop these skills are effective and great, but no one will argue that really doing it, to the limits, is going to be of great help to that effect. This is why many people are training, so do what you're being trained for. Few things will give you as much experience and improvement. If you don't want to get hit or hurt, you will improve your speed, timing and technique -- and that's up to you. Also, don't be afraid to break out of or improve on what you've learned. Be it it's something that is modified or something you never thought it. Think about it, try it and develop it. it might be a very effective technique. Study the reasons behind it. How is it effective? What are the pros and cons to this technique? How powerful is it? Is it likely you can and will be able to use it in a real conflict? Where's the power coming from? Are you well protected when using the technique? How well or easily can it be countered? How well and easily can it be used? How can you improve the power and speed of this technique? Can it be further modified and improved upon? Repeat those steps again and again. Always keeping in mind the principals of them. Develop your fighting skills by using them, being inventive about it. Don't be afraid to try and develop new techniques. Ask you instructor(s) what they thing, if they can show you why it's a good or poor technique. Share it with people and ask them, maybe someone can help you improve it or show you something similar that's already been developed. Just do it safely, don't injure yourself, and study the principals of why and how. That's what any good martial arts style encourages, is that you teach yourself, develop the style and skills. They (any style) can only teach you so much, it's all just a bases for you to build your style off of and use what works best for you, what's natural and for you to continue to develop and improve well beyond your training, art/style and school and instructor. Just get out there and do it, and keep doing it. There's no rewards, no thank you's, it's all for you and you need to keep up on top of things, if you want to be proficient enough to truly defend yourself in a real situation. Develop your mind, body and skills, and prepare. Just get out there and do it, there's no secret about it. Find any friend, or enemy (heh) and have them assist you by trying things with them. There's also no reason why you can't or shouldn't teach them. You learn a lot by teaching, remember a lot an it can open new doors in your theories and knowledge. There's a vast number of things that can be discussed, taught and trained for, but it all comes down to doing it. So, go for it and do it! While you're reading this, some hillbilly is getting drunk, brawling with his hillbilly buddies, getting more experience and more stupid, getting experience you could be getting. Always remember someone's being active, what are you doing to improve yourself? So, act on it. That's right, let lose of the mouse, get your fingers off the keyboard, close your applications, save your information, turn off the computer and go pick something up, start writing things down.. ideas, applications, techniques, anything you can put to use, build off of or use as a policy. Be it useful or inspiring, it doesn't matter. Then call up a friend, ask people from your dojo(s) or school or work, knock on your neighbors' door and pull him out of his house (okay, maybe not a great idea, but you get the point), or whatever that you meet and enjoy the company of, if they might be interested in training with you. Then, go for it, have fun and develop yourself. That said, if you do those things, you will almost always be more ready for a conflict, than the person that's starting the conflict.

I can't exactly be able to do the same type of competing and sparring, fighting as people do in events without getting thrown out, but I'd personally think it would be a good idea to look at it like any fight. Not for points or whatever, of course, but to do things you don't want to. Allow me to explain... In a real fight, you likely don't want to be there or in the situation. Also, when faced with it, sometimes (and a lot of the time), people seem to not want to be there so bad, that they either wait for the other person to do something, or they act too quickly by wanting to get it over with. I think competitions or any medium that you can test and act on and improve your timing, frame of mind and help prepare yourself for any real conflict, is a good thing. I realize this isn't exactly always the point to competitions, but I don't see any other point myself. Just like anything else, look at it as you want to end it, not get hurt, yet stop them -- often by causing harm, unless you can subdue them. Obviously you're restrained by rules (and possibly time), but that's okay. I would get used to that happy medium, when faced with a real conflict for example, and try not to wait it out or act too quickly. Try and find techniques that are the most effective by using them in such a situation. Someone you hopefully don't know, that you aren't used to sparring against -- that you have no real idea what they will do or how they will fight, etc. In other words, instead of just testing each other's skills on one another to see who's got more knowledge or skills or whatever, use it to learn -- not just by doing, but by reacting and thinking about it. You don't have that opportunity in a real fight, to think much before you act or consider things or think about what you just did. If you can do that, while still being unfamiliar with the other person's fighting style or strategy, it can be helpful and there's not a lot of other chances to develop your own skill while fighting against someone you aren't used to, instead of just testing what you already know. I'm trying to be clear that I'm not simply talking about the difference like actually using your art, or how it'll give you experience, but I mean to learn and do -- experience is just the benefit, but competitions and fighting out of an actual threatening situation, can be useful for many, many things. I would test out different ideas/theories and strategies you might have -- not just to win, but to see if they are truly effective -- and not against someone you are used to sparring against that might know what you'll do, or you'll know what they usually do to try it on -- but for the fact it's unfamiliar. Well, there's a lot of reasons why it's cool, but I also don't participate in competitions that have mats and judges and whatnot either, so your options and opportunity to learn might not be very inspiring when you're there to simply win and not really learn anything but competing against someone else and doing it only. Maybe that didn't make a lot of sense, sorry, it's late here and I'm not being clear because of that.

I watched The Score tonight and I thought I'd say I thought it was good. As always, Edward Norton does an excellent acting job. Of course, no need to mention Deniro or Brando's performance, as those too go without saying. Not bad for an action/drama, I suppose. I have yet to see Scary Movie 2, anyone seen this and liked it?

Good points. I personally find myself wanting to ask 1/2 the people I see in public, if they want to spar. Seriously. If I see some big 6'8", 400lb guy checking my groceries at the market, I feel like saying "Hey, would you be interested in sparring? I don't know a lot of huge people I can practice fighting against". Of course, I don't do that, but I do try and find anyone I know, people of all sizes, and a lot have no martial arts training, to spar with. They usually are okay with it and it's good practice. Also, when sparring against people that do know what they are doing and are skilled, we intentionally put in enough practice with the other person doing what people do in real fights -- nothing planned and just what people would really do, even if it is stupid to people that are trained, you can prepare for people that came at you with these type of things.

Crouching Tiger, was a great movie, I thought. But, not because of the flying around, etc. I just thought it had a good story line and good cinematography. I just can't deal with movies with made up stuff, when that's all the movie is about. If it had a good plot and good filming, I don't care how fake it is. I just have to find some exciting, interesting or emotional element in a movie to like it. Good stunts help some, good comedy, good drama, good story line, whatever. I like everything but musicals and old Westerns. However, I just was hoping for more of that ridiculous, fun, crazy fighting you usually see, not some thing about the "Toad style" that will make your skin like iron and make you invincible, and have that be your martial art/skill. Granted, it did have some of that ridiculous, crazy fighting in it. There's just some I can't deal with... then the voices start... then.. well, you don't want to know...

Damn my typing sucks tonight! Anyway, I was not saying that a martial arts instructor that can't fight is okay to take courses from, just that it might not matter, as long as they know enough to still teach you what you need to know, for you to use -- since you're doing it for you and not them. However, it's a good indication you might want to choose another instructor too.

I find that most (and I mean, the highest percentage) of people that study martial arts, don't have a clue what they are doing, outside of kata and practicing forms and techniques. Most people are simply not incline to do it. Everyone has something they are better suited for, and very few people are really good at things that require such skill. It's difficult to find someone that's really that good at things, such as music, martial arts, painting, drawing, programming, whatever. Most people know just enough to get by. However, in a situation where you need to fight and can't just 'get by' and get around having to have skill, you are either going to have a good chance or not. Such people that simply lack the comprehension for fighting, will never be a good fighter -- I don't care what style they take or for how long. Certainly, the better the style for them and the more they dedicate themselves to it, the better their chances are... but in reality, they just weren't that good anyway. Also, I'm talking about skill and comprehension. Then we have the people that can't do the physical aspects or are too weak, slow and/or out of shape. Then, you have to remember how many, many people are intimidated and freeze up, hesitate or whatever. I've seen many black belts, more than 1/2 not have any indication they could hold their own in a fight. In fact, most people are like that. There's not that many good fighters, there just isn't. Look at how they (some people) give black belts to 6 and 8 year olds. How in the world can an 8 year old possibly retain the skill level to truly be a black belt? Answer; they can't! There's no way that any 8 year old will excel in a martial art well enough, to truly earn a black belt. They can't possibly have the years invested to know all the techniques or the steady coordination to pull it off. And, I'm talking about any 8 year old -- no one is that special or skilled at that age. Still, look how many get black belts at such a young age. There's so many reasons why people can train for years and not be able to fight. So many arts and teachers are teaching people these techniques they are unusable, don't understand them and their students don't either, or they simply give the belts based on the fact that the student can do the moves. And, really, that's what a lot of the reasons a lot of schools give belts -- to show what you know -- the moves, not necessarily know how to use them in a fight or even how to fight. I don't know, I've just seen so many people that have spent so many years, obtained high ranking belts and just have no chance of winning a real fight. It's rare, it really is. Anyone that's a good fighter and has that talent, most don't need to attend a martial arts school to develop it. Some do, some don't -- and it certainly helps all of them become better, assuming it's not a joke of a school -- but the simple fact is, anyone that has skill with no training that is fairly strong, fast and intelligent at fighting, will pretty much always win against a person with many years of training in martial arts that doesn't retain one of more of those skills. That's the blunt and straight up truth and facts about fighting abilities. Luckily for the rest of the people that do have that skill and ability and comprehension for fighting and body mechanics, they can still learn from an instructor that might not be able to fight his way out of a paper bag, because they instructor might know all the techniques and theory behind them -- and still not know how to use them, or have the talent to -- so they are still worth something to the people that haven't trained years, even if they can't fight. However, in an altercation, I'd prefer to have some big, strong brawler friend with me that's never had training, over the experienced martial artist that will only get in the way and get hurt.

Five Deadly Venoms.. boy, what a crappy movie that was... I sometimes rent some old B movies for a laugh, but that was just pathetic. It said it was a cult classic.. I have no idea why. Hey, I think I need to learn the, what was it? Toad style? Skin like Iron. Nifty.

All San Shou really means, is traditional Chinese free fighting, using the four main aspects; Ti (kicking), Da (Striking), Shuai (wrestling) and Na (Qin Na -- Seizing and controlling, locks, breaks, tendon and muscle separation, etc.) I believe, being that's it's generally known definition, that you can say that anything is a modified form of it, or that it incorporates or modifies versions of other styles as well. All the different styles of Chinese GongFu (Wushu) have some Shuai Jiao training methods in their forms. So, of course this all holds true. All San Shou is or means, is "free fighting" and is based on about everything. It's not really a style, any more than Kung Fu is one style -- and even less, actually. I promise you, that any technique or style you ever find that has any usefulness or value, is going to be found in Kung Fu, not to mention San Shou, since San Shou is too generalized. Therefore, there's no reason to worry about who thinks what style or technique is built from the other, since _anything_ can technically be described as San Shou in Chinese terms. _________________ Regards, Tim Greer | xanth@digital-star.com | Phone: 530-222-7244 Server/System administration, programming, security, consulting. Kung Fu, Modern Arnis, TaiJutsu, and so on and on and on and... This Message was edited by: Tim Greer on Jul 24, 2001 9:56pm

I've studied Kung Fu styles (many of them) for a while now, and there are a lot, and certainly some I've never heard of. I suppose it's possible it's a real form of the style, but I've never heard of it -- not that that means anything.

I was telling my wife that I thought it was ending at the under water part. Also, the first 15 to 20 minutes were a little too slow for me. I thought the ending under the water would have been cool too, but even more depressing. I thought the alien part was kind of cool, because of what they thought and said. I don't want to ruin it for anyone though -- even though it's not completely significant, but still. Anyway, comedies are great, but it's so difficult to find a good one. My favorite comedy (at least one of my all time) would be Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas -- although it's a bit brutal and crude for some people.

I'm all for anything I can watch where some idiot's are making fools out of themselves and getting hurt. MTV's Jackass, is a good example, although a lot of it is just stupid and sick. That's also a good example of the only thing MTV is good for. *L*

No, I wasn't offended at all -- and I didn't take it that way or anything remotely like it. Cheers.

Well, I finally went and saw A.I. tonight. It was a good movie. Some parts were a bit slow in getting to the next part, but not in a bad way. I just don't recommend seeing a 2 and 1/2 hour movie on the 10:00 PM showing, unless you're a night owl. Anyway, very good movie, I thought. I recommend it.

No way!!!? You do that too!? Huh, small world... Anyway, you'll have to excuse me, it's a little after 2:30 AM here and I have to go stand in the middle of the road for exactly 1 hour and 34 minutes and water the street -- every night, without fail -- really freaks the neighbors out...

Ha! You joke, but I actually do write legal contracts. No, I'm not a lawyer or legal counsel, but I do know most of the laws involved with a variety of subjects. You think my posts here are menacing! Bwahhaahaaa... and so forth...

Speaking of, have you seen the advertisements on TV about the "Backyard wrestling"? It's home video of a lot of idiot's literally doing things like jumping off roof tops, onto a guy laying on a table, really hurting themselves. It looks very funny.

Well, fake or not, these people are very large, very strong athletes, and that is one of the big aspects of fighting skills. They are skilled at what they do and they might be faking hitting them, but they are doing a lot of these moves for real. It's ridiculous and I can't stand these events, but indeed, these people aren't going to likely be beaten easily.

People used to ask me "So, tell me about yourself" and I'd always eventually work into the conversation that I am a Navy Seal, and they always say "Wow!? Really!?", and I say "No, not really". Then I think, "Wow, they are kind of dumb".

Well said, I agree with this... very well said and good perspective about it too. Good deal.

Heh, Ken, I actually like your attitude. You are blunt and to the point. If you're ever in Northern, California, I would really like to hook up and spar with you. If I'm ever out that way, or going to be, I'll let you know, if you'd like to spar and exchange some ideas and techniques. As for the SCARS people, I personally think, by the sound of it, that it'll be a lot more fun here if they didn't participate and try and push their claims on everyone here. [Edit: My typing skills suck tonight... Well, I've got to go, South park is on. ] _________________ Regards, Tim Greer | xanth@digital-star.com | Phone: 530-222-7244 Server/System administration, programming, security, consulting. Kung Fu, Modern Arnis, TaiJutsu, and so on and on and on and... This Message was edited by: Tim Greer on Jul 22, 2001 2:46am

Between this post of Jack's here, and the one where he said he struck a student in the temple because of a comment, I don't think people should take his posts too seriously when it comes to his story telling -- which I think is obvious at this point.

I believe you. But, any system that involved motion, body mechanics and the like, is technically a martial art. However, I did and I guess I wasn't clear enough, say "allegedly", and I don't buy it myself -- and I don't think I'll bother to look at their site to read their information or excuses or claims to find out it's just what we all know it is.

I couldn't be sure by your post, as if you were saying that you were having a good lesson that day, or were giving a good lesson that day -- and if you were posting this as a student or an instructor. However, and especially for an instructor, but including anyone such as students as well, that was out of line and, well, foolish. You knowing your art isn't "oriental sh(svnible)t", should be skilled enough and confident enough, to not have to resort to such things. That doesn't prove anything, other than a wrong doing on your part. You can simply ignore the person, or ask them to leave, depending. You could have also subdued them, assuming that was reasonable action, if they wouldn't leave. You should understand as a student or instructor, that people will be disrespectful and mouth off sometimes. That's no excuse to strike someone, especially in the temple. Moreover, to demonstrate this technique? Excuse me for questioning your post and story, but are you saying that you put more power/force into this strike to this kid's temple to prove a point about how you couldn't deal well with a loud mouth? Tell me, I'm genuinely curious, is this story "oriental sh(bow wow)t"? Yes, that was for the sake of humor, but I just have trouble buying it is all. Cheers! [Edited for the convenience of humor] _________________ Regards, Tim Greer | xanth@digital-star.com | Phone: 530-222-7244 Server/System administration, programming, security, consulting. Kung Fu, Modern Arnis, TaiJutsu, and so on and on and on and... This Message was edited by: Tim Greer on Jul 24, 2001 1:18am