baronbvp

True. You can also spend the time on what you need to, with no pressure to "finish up in 5 minutes" so class can proceed to the next thing. And, no one is watching you. That can be very freeing.

Steve K, some good points. NightOwl, your example of archery hits another nail on the head with respect to kata: who cares if you look good while you die. I'd rather be the guy who hits the target well with the arrow, even it I have sloppy form, than the slower one with great form whose opponent hits me first. There are no points for second place. Cross and Bushido Man, good weapons discussion and another example of dojos training antiquated styles. I have no rice threshers in my home, nor do I expect to be attacked with one. Defending against today's weapons make more sense. I would love to try medieval fighting, though - it does sound like a blast. My favorite movie scene of all time is the broadsword fight between King Arthur and the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

I still believe there are better uses of a person's time than training kata, unless you are dedicated to a system and consistently train over a period of many years. Martial arts techniques and kata were developed after extensive years of studying human anatomy, motion, and strengths and weaknesses. Many traditional martial artists from the past devoted their entire lives to the study of their art. Today, most people have only limited time. We seek the greatest efficient and effective training in the precious time we can devote. I agree with Cross that kata are not the best use of valuable dojo training time for most people. To use the previous example, the best techniques for a large, strong man differ somewhat from those best suited to a small, petite woman. Without stating the obvious too much, effective technique comes from a study of the basics until a strong foundation is developed. Soon after, tailoring training to a person's unique situation is warranted. The small-statured woman may find that fighting up and inside, fast and tight, works best for her. The angry bee attacks the big bear. In my case, I am tall but not super tall, long limbs, slender at my weight of 175. I have no bulk. I am not that limber and can't raise my hips high, so TKD is out for me. I suck at side kicks but can do a good front kick. I do not have the stocky, low center-of-gravity build of a judoka. I am aggressive and very fast but my punches are not as strong as those of some. I am agile for 45 and active duty military. So, I have tailored my fighting style for what I can do well and what I cannot, given my occupation. It is a hybrid - a word I like better than the equally valid "hodge-podge." The Gracies developed BJJ for their own statures - smaller men who are built slender. They studied what worked and what didn't and practiced against other fighters repeatedly. No kata. Concrete UFC wins by Royce resulted in the MMA history that followed. My opinion is that training by actually practicing fighting in the style that works for you, instead of doing some kata moves that may or may not, is a better use of one's limited dojo time.

There is much to be said for following your natural impulse to try something different, especially if it involves some throwing and grappling for a striker. I feel that one can learn more about himself by trying some other styles. Once you see what they have to offer, you may find another you like better. Or you may choose to return exclusively to your original style. Or you may elect to combine elements of both into your own hybrid technique. Regardless, you will be more enlightened and make a better choice for you.

You are all correct, yet I disagree with you all. An occasional glass of scotch or well-crafted beer with a good cigar contributes to your spiritual well-being. All becomes clear. Haven't you seen the end of each episode of Boston Legal?

Two playlists in this 45-year-old's iPod: Heavy alternative for lifting (warfighting music): The Offspring Nickleback Linkin Park Adema Limp Bizkit Dark New Day Disturbed Nirvana Alice in Chains Cradle of Filth Rob Zombie Fast stuff for aerobics: Judas Priest B-52's (amazingly fast, try it) Van Halen Gipsy Kings Barenaked Ladies Green Day Music makes your muscles sing while exercising!

Another one: Lucy Liu (actress) - Kali-Eskrima-Silat

Ed O'Neill (Ed Bundy on Married with Children) - blue belt in BJJ (may have gone farther by now) Wayne Newton, Las Vegas entertainer - black belt in some type of karate David Lee Roth, former lead singer for Van Halen - brown or black belt in TKD, I believe You bet Vladimir Putin is a celebrity. Don't tell him he's not - it might not go well...

Greek Fighter, your story about your sensei is a good one. Not enough dojos teach conflict deescalation. Most conflicts are about someone insecure feeling a lack of respect, or an egregious demonstration of sociopathic behavior. I would venture to say that putting one's face up to a knife blade isn't a good idea in this day and age because people are less predictable. Many have lost any sense of worth about a person's life. My worst experience was also one of my best. A roommate in college was teaching me some JKD one on one. He told me he was going to touch my face ten times in a row and that I would be powerless to prevent it. He was right. It was my worst experience because I felt so inadequate to defend myself. It was a great experience because it taught me that I had a lot to learn. An occasional dose of humility is a healthy thing.

Precisely why I like it. The renshi at my old dojo liked to pull me out of class and teach me personally off to the side of the dojo, probably because we were both military and about the same age (old guys). Our kids were in school together and we became friends. The younger senseis would ask me why we talked while we were sparring. I told them I learned better through real-time learning and feedback with an active conversation with my opponent than by people yelling advice at me from the sideline. Sometimes you need to just shut up and fight, but it's nice to be able to do both. One-on-one has a lot going for it.

True. Most people revert to brain-stem power in a fight anyway. That which you like and have trained repeatedly will stick. For instance, I just don't think I'll ever do an X-block in a fight even though the kata/kihons include them. It isn't a natural human move, at least not to me. Of course, I don't have the experience of you guys who have trained consistently for years. From what I've observed, most folks under stress don't get too creative unless they are desperate.

Small damn world. I did Shorin-Ryu when I lived in the Seattle area and have recently moved to Fairfax County. I start a three-month "full-contact kickboxing" class on the 10th that is given through the Fairfax County parks program (https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov), only $112. They also do BJJ, American Kempo karate, TKD, and some other stuff. I'm 45 and expect the kickboxing to kick my butt aerobically. I hope to take the three-month BJJ class after that - wise enough at my age not to take them together until I get back in shape.

Guess I'd better jump on the treadmill again.

I have trained this way most of the time. It is great - someone you respect whose company you enjoy, mutual teaching and learning, discussions of strategy and technique in the middle of a fight, and a path that you both agree to and change as desired. Good luck!

Wow, nice options you've listed here, Granmaster Chen. I never thought of lifting the leg up. I guess I haven't seen too many high side kicks where that would occur to me, especially if I had to drop my guard to lift the opponent's leg. I'll have to try this - without taking the kick to my face in the process.

I liked boxing but found it frustrating not to be able to use my legs. Felt like I was only using half my body. I start KB in a couple of weeks.

Cross, you never answered Bushido Man 96's good question: why not train both? And what answers were you looking for that you didn't find?

Welcome back! I, too, just recently came back to the forum after a year off. In fact, I had forgotten the website address until I found it in my old Shorin-Ryu log. Like you, I left karate. I grew tired of kata all the time instead of training to fight. I start a KB class in a couple of weeks, then BJJ class after that. It's good to be back on the site! You'll be glad you stopped by again.

Great comments by all. Cross is right as I have seen in other threads. Real fights are too unpredictable. In my experience, they virtually all start with striking; then someone is taken down, and then grappling occurs until someone submits, gets away, or the fight is stopped. My philosophy is to train to all aspects of likely fights: fight avoidance and deescalation, weapon neutralization and use of objects as weapons, striking, takedowns and falling technique, grappling and reversals, and escape and first aid. There is plenty of video on the web of real fights. The common theme is they start suddenly, usually against one person's will; they tend to be wild and uncontrolled due to adrenaline; and they don't last long like an MMA ring fight. Train to both and fight ferociously!

Too bad, but good on you for recognizing it, Cross. I've found that finding a good class with people you like and a focus that matches yours is more important than the style it teaches.

I start in a couple of weeks, I'm excited too. Until then, it's time to stretch and condition. Too many holiday treats.

Exactly!

Yep, I guess outdoor kata practice is not as prevalent as it used to be. Too bad.

I find that there is something of value on every style I've tried. Over my life, I have done some judo, wrestling, boxing, Shotokan, kung fu, combat arts, and Shorin Ryu. Most of it was one on one or in small classes. I am about to start a KB class that goes three months. After that, I expect to take a BJJ class that goes three months. It's all good.

Bushido Man, I am in the same boat as you. Starting a MT/KB class after being a holiday slug. 45 years old. Taking a swing dancing class with my wife the night after KB. Ruh roh! Along the lines of this thread, I just plain suck at side kicks. No matter how much I stretch and practice, I can't get my hips limber enough to raise my thigh/knee very high. So, my side kicks are low. I like front and back kicks much better. It's just the way my body is constructed.