Skeptic 2004

This has been on my mind for a while and perhaps I should give a background story to put it into context first. At one of my karate practices a while ago, our instructor was demonstrating an application from one of our kata. He was explaining proper body mechanics and position. In one particular place, his explanation looked to me at first to be physically awkward (though when I tried it turned out to be pretty natural), and I asked a question about how powerful a technique would be if executed how he described. This question elicited some smirks or grins from the other "students" (the median age of these "students" is about 50, and they've all been training together since the 1960's and 1970's). The instructor thought it was a fair question and decided to let me feel the technique...which hurt like hell He then guided me through how to perform it as he did. During a break, a couple students gathered around me in glowing awe, saying "That's why you don't question Sensei. You just do what he tells you and it works. We don't question him anymore." They continued to speak glowingly of our instructor ad nauseum. It was like they were evangelizing me to join the Church of Nakata (name of my instructor). My instructor's karate is quite frankly the best I've ever seen so far. He has a history and reputation for being a fierce and skilled fighter, and because of his family connections in Japan had the opportunity to train with the last of the old karate greats (Chibana, Ohtsuka, Ueshiba) in his youth in the 1960s. He is a good teacher and a decent person. He is also, first and foremost, a human being; and while I understand these guys have been training together longer than I've been alive, I was not about to be proselytized into the Church of Nakata. The truth of the matter is that this is not the first time this has happened. Visiting Sensei Doug Perry's dojo in North Carolina last year, many of the students I had the opportunity to meet and train with spoke glowingly of Perry. Yes, he is a great karateka - as a matter of fact behind Nakata, he is the greatest karateka I have ever met. Yes, he is one of the most polite and generous men I have ever had the opportunity to meet; and I honestly don't think anyone I will ever meet will ever top his generosity during my 7 day visit. But, he is also a human being, privvy to all the faults and failures therein. I respect him greatly, but I feel no need to elevate him to the near demi-god status that many endeared him to be. While visiting his dojo was tantamount to going to Shorinkan Mecca, I was not going to be a convert to the Church of Perry. In my short karate career, I have met many skilled and highly regarded martial arts instructors whose styles and philosophies have shaped how I view the martial arts. However, there comes a time where profound admiration for these individuals begins to color our vision as we filter these men through the lens of hero worship. Isn't there a danger in that? How necessary is it for martial artists to view today's "masters" as heroes? Do you consider your instructor to be larger than life, and as a result find yourself unable to see his/her faults? What is your opinion on the old masters (if you're a karateka/judoka/aikidoka)? Thoughts please!

Uh...ditto on EVERYTHING Shorin Ryuu said. Shorin Ryuu, I think we're going to have to start citing sources if readers don't find our information credible... Kenpo_fighter: I think the origin thing was my bad since I think I was the first person to mention such. At any rate, I understand and acknowledge your point; knowing your roots is vital to establishing where you come from, where you are currently are, and where you are going. I would just be wary of attaching almost seemingly religious reverence and fidelity to what is essentially clothing one wears while they're training. There's a danger in that. Karate is a path and a journey toward mental and physical development; I think spiritual aspects are best left to faith (whether it be jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindu, wiccan...whatever). Karate can help with developing spirituality, but it shouldn't replace it; I've met some people where karate was their church, and their instructor was god. I love and enjoy karate, but it is not my idol nor my altar. By the way...this is really getting off topic. I know, I'm not helping.

Edit: Can't help but notice this has strayed off-topic. Right. I don't want to jump into an ontological debate here, but the best tribute you could possibly give to yourself and the creators of the arts is to be a good person; have good, strong karate; and share your knowledge. Just as reverence for the flag is not a sufficient condition for being a good American, reverence for your belt is not a sufficient condition for being a good karateka. I'm pretty sure you know that, but I don't want casual readers of the forums to walk away with the wrong impression. That and the creators of the arts didn't wear colored belts like karateka do now. The colored belt system is a little over 100 years old and was created by Jigoro Kanno to distinguish the lesser skilled students from the more skilled students so as not to pair a beginner and a senior together when they sparred and have the amatuer get thrashed. It was also an incentive to encourage his students to train harder. Shorin Ryuu and I have been beating people over the head with the facts about the belt system, and I want to make sure that casual readers understand that too. This is not to denigrate whatever meaning you would want to ascribe to your belt. Just understand that reverence for it in and of itself is not enough.

Uh...okay. It sounds like it's a crutch for your mind...which would make it a bad thing. Unless someone's breaking into your house while you're training in your backyard with your belt on, it sounds like you'll have a lot on your mind if the belt is off. Try weaning yourself off physically wearing it when you train to collect your thoughts and get to the point were you can pretend that you have your belt on all the time. When you've reached that point, it won't make a difference; wear it when you train at home or not - it'll be the same to you. Or maybe I'm just completely and totally wrong here. *shrugs*

There was no one movie or actor in particular...I always thought the martial arts were cool way before intricate fight choreography became vogue in entertainment. If I really had to single out a movie it would be...get this...Mortal Kombat. *hangs head in shame* My early introduction to MA made me appreciate fight scenes and want to imitate them...though now that I've been around the block once I usually look at fight scenes in MA movies and laugh. Except for Jet Li fights. Those are rarely funny (unless it's one of the Fong Sai Yuk's); they're just plain brutal.

I'm going to refer you to a very similar if not identical thread that was pretty popular no less than a week ago. The SEARCH button helps too... http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=20242

So I tried Sauzin's test, and the results were inconclusive. I had the same amount of strength/stability in either position. This actually raises an interesting question about the issue of the flared chest. Now, I might actually have a physical bias; that is, I've been training flared chest since November, so my muscles might be conditioned to provide the necessary strength and stability to pass Sauzin's test. Or, maybe I just did the test wrong (though I'm pretty sure I followed what he said to the letter). Anyone else practice flared chest? Anyone else with any other thoughts?

I find it interesting that all of you Shotokan guys say this is the same reverse punch in Shotokan. I'm going to go find a Shotokan dojo and watch a class. Meanwhile, I haven't been able to try your experiment, Sauzin, but I will tonight in class. In ALL of Nakata's punches, the koshi is the last thing that moves in all applications (kata, sparring, basics, etc.). I really wish I could show you guys a video....

Thanks everyone for their comments. I have some comments in reply. Sauzin: As a matter of fact it is very difficult to properly flare your chest when you are raising your shoulders. Try it. If you raise your shoulders, you chest is no longer flared. If you flare your chest, your shoulders naturally drop. I neglected to mention that shoulders should be down. I think there's a thread about the argument concerning the "straight", perpendicular back. The slight forward cant seems okay to me (there's several places in kata where we lean forward anyway) so long as the back is "straight" and unrounded (with a small inward arc in the lower back/lumbar vertabrae). With your shoulders forward (however slightly), it seems hard to keep your back "straight". With your shoulders slightly forward it sounds like you're rounding your back, breaking posture, and as a result instead of all of your weight going forward into your opponent, some of it goes back. Thus, you sacrifice power. I might be wrong...just musing on your description of your posture. There are many Chinese styles where the key posture is the rounded back (chen ting hua bagua for instance...a style I played with for a few months) but I know very little to comment on their power. I do know that postures with a "straight", unrounded back (with a slight inward arc of the lower back) with shoulders back tend to deliver more powerful techniques than postures with rounded backs with shoulders forward. This is because in the former posture, hara is forward while in the latter posture, hara is held back. Of course this argument is only applicable to karate styles; as I mentioned I don't know enough about the Chinese styles. Not to denigrate from your own experiences or what you've been taught, Sauzin, I'm just musing aloud at this point. Shotochem: Hmm...Shorin Ryuu and I trained briefly with a very talented Shotokan karateka early in our training years (I'm trying to remember if he was shodan or 1st kyu). His reverse punch looked nothing like the punch I attempted to describe. Like I said, training with Nakata, this is the first and only place I've seen people punch like this. I could be wrong though... P.A.L: The punch I described is exactly the gyakuzuki you do when doing the kihon kata. Stationary practice is a good idea to get a feel for this punch. Shizentai may be a misnomer for the kihon stance. Basically, your feet are shoulder width apart (measured from the heels). If you draw a line on the floor your front foot's heel and your back leg's toe are on the line. Your front foot's toes are pointing forward, your back foot's toes are at 45. Your back leg doesn't rotate. You rotate your fist after you've made contact with your target. If you're punching air, rotate your fist at the last possible moment. The punch should come completely across your body before you even think about rotating. Naturally, when you simulatenously rotate your fist and koshi, your angled off body will face full forward with all your weight behind your punch. Hope this helps. Any more thoughts are appreciated!

I took a visit to Shorin Ryuu's blog a few days ago and left a comment on his article "The Chambered Fist" (his response to the "re-action hand" thread: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=20242) which described an unusual way of punching that I've been learning since November. Rather than whorde the knowledge to myself and those who read his blog, I figured I would share a description of it and hear your thoughts. I apologize for any errors in its description, and these errors are entirely my own. I present for your edification my attempt at a description of "the Nakata gyakuzuki (reverse punch)", Nakata being the name of my instructor who is sort of notorious for his punch. His punching methodology is unlike any I've seen so far in my training with various instructors (and I've had the fortune of training with quite a few quality teachers). I describe the reverse punch since it is easiest to see and understand the mechanics of his methodology as compared to other types of punches (e.g., lead jab, uppercut, roundhouse/hook punch, etc.). 1.) Stand in a kihon stance (a shizentai/natural stance) and angle your body off slightly to whatever your target is. That is, don't stand with your hips and shoulders facing full front (the punch works standing full front, but it's easier to see the mechanics of his punch if you're angled off, and there other mechanics involved if you're facing full front). Make sure you have good posture (chin up!) and that your chest is flared (kinda like you're a body builder...). Make sure that the toes of your "lead" leg point forward and the toes of your "back" leg point out at 45 degrees (I use quotes in that in a natural stance there's barely a heel-to-toe difference between how much the "lead" leg leads). 2.) Extend the punching hand from chamber as if you were going to punch like normal from the waist (though it still works if you have your hands up in a ready position), but without turning the koshi...otherwise you hazusu (i.e., hand moves first...hips rotate last. If you rotate hips first and then extend your hand, you hazusu, or negate/deadlock your power). Do not rotate the fist yet. You should be palm up, and assuming you're angled off, your arm should be across your chest at your target. Keep your chest flared. Keep your wrists straight and locked (make sure they aren't bent outward too much or curled inward too much). 3.) When you rotate your fist, use your koshi at the same time (turn your hips as you rotate your fist) as if they were inseparable. When the koshi rotates, you bring your hara and weight forward, adding that extra umph! to that punch. Don't over-rotate. Rotate just enough that the hara is forward. Rotating too much throws your weight off at an angle, and you lose power. Voila. The Nakata gyakuzuki. Obviously, when performed this should all be done smoothly and there are a ton of other things that go into it (keeping your chest flared, keeping your posture straight, keeping your chin up, using gamaku, rooting yourself with the outside edges of your feet, bringing hara forward, keeping a tight fist at all times if you plan on punching with a closed fist yet inhaling/relaxing all other muscles as you extend your punch, exhaling/contracting your muscles and accelerating your punch on contact, etc.). Rotation of the fist (and thus, the koshi) does not occur until right after impact, so on initial contact, you're actually hitting palm up with the koshi unturned. Rotating the fist and koshi drives the punch into and through the target for penetrating power. Nakata's punch has incredible penetration, and this is what made his punch so famous/unusual. Try this punch on for size on a bag or a pad (or a person... ). If you do it right, you might be pleasantly surprised by the results. I've found it actually takes less effort to punch with the same amount of power than the old way I used to punch. The trick is doing the punch correctly - it has a very steep learning curve. But, once it is mastered, it is very effective. I speak from experience having been clocked by it...

Miss Canada did indeed win...but come on! Are you kidding? Miss Puerto Rico was super fine. She had it going on! Man, what a babe. Miss Canada was hot too, but Miss Puerto Rico...good lord talk about a foxy lady!

Goshinjutsu is grappling and joint locks/manipulation. It shares some similiarities with aikijutsu (not to be confused with aikido) and the grappling applications from Okinawan ti (tuite).

I do 60/40, though I've been slowly getting accustomed to 50/50. My heel is also close to the floor. In application, distribution varies, but for the most part Chibana advocated 50/50.

Not to be overly critical, but if what you do is supposed to be second nature to you, it shouldn't take a gi for that switch in your head to click on. The tradition of wearing gi is actually also a "recent" adaptation. That is, it's a little over a century old. It's not a tradition going back to feudal Japan/Okinawa. I'd encourage you to read this: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=250425&highlight=#250425 . It's some observations and experiences I've noted over the years about traditional gi as well as input from a discussion with my instructor. Ultimately, nothing is wrong with wearing gi in and out of the dojo; just make sure it doesn't become a crutch.

I'd just like to say that certain anime offers something I've found lacking in many shows or movies in America or abroad: substance. In many good series or films, you can emotionally connect with the characters, empathize with the circumstances and generally become more involved with the outcome than in any other media outlet. Not to mention that many of these good series or films carry spectacular plots that puts most of Hollywood to shame. The most powerful cinematic moments (to include regular movies, television, musicals, etc.) I've ever experienced came from watching an anime. The fact that many of these are art in motion only adds icing to the cake. Watch Grave of the Fireflies and tell me it doesn't move you. I highlight "certain" because there are other anime that as Shorin Ryuu mentioned just aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The crap you see on TV on any given Saturday morning is a good example. Ever since the Pokemon marketing craze, networks have been feeding kids more crap-anime. I really don't know what happend to the classic Saturday morning cartoon (GI Joe, Transformers, Thundercats, etc.), but the anime these kids are watching these days is garbage.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=prisonfight.wmv

Be careful you aren't doing techniques just for the sake of your gi popping. You'll start doing them incorrectly, or you'll sacrifice power just for the sake of the cool sound. I swear there's 2 other threads on this or a related topic. My responses to those including what I wear when I train: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=250425&highlight=#250425 http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=252985&highlight=#252985

It surprised me in the fact that it sucked less than the first two. There's a lot of great action, but unfortunately Georgie wrote the dialogue and it's telling. I'd still go see it if you haven't.

I suppose I would qualify as one of those who wears a "non-traditional gi." That is, in our class we all wear white gi pants and white t-shirts with Shorin-Ryu in kanji written vertically over the left breast. On weapons days we wear a white t-shirt that has Ryukyu Kobudo written in kanji vertically over the left breast. No belts. I've mentioned this in a thread entitled "Street Clothes" in the Combative Arts section but my instructor did away with the traditional gi shortly after he gave up wearing his rank. His explanation made a lot of sense to me for why he did away with regular gi and rank. I also came to my own conclusions; I believe that there are certain fallacies in always training in traditional (or in some cases flashy non-traditional) gi, and I discuss them in depth on the post: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=250425&highlight=#250425 This is not to say that I think wearing traditional gi is wrong. My best friend puts it best when discussing why he wears traditional gi: "This is what I wear so my regular clothes don't get dirty and messed up." When I wore traditional gi, it was plain, white, cotton gi with no accoutrements. My old instructor used to tease me about sowing our club's patch onto the gi, but I was lazy and I was never a fan of wearing patches of any kind on my gi. However, I do enjoy collecting organizational patches, though I have no intention of wearing them. I would not be averse to wearing black gi since dirt is less evident on it than say, white gi. Otherwise, all that decorative, flashy, "stylish" patterns, colors, patches, etc. I think just looks stupid and foolish and perpetuates the stereotypes and images of martial artists to the outside world that appears to irritate quite a few people here in the forums.

"We may need emergency surgery in the studio" - a very classic line. Would this be the same shopping channel responsible for this incident? http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=qvclatter.asx (Warning: Not really MA related, but funny nonetheless) Gotta love the hostess: "He's moving. He is okay."

I've sort of fallen for photography. Check my signature for pics.

Thanks for the info AnonymousOne. I'm always interested in learning about old indigenous fighting systems outside of the karate/wushu sphere. I asked about Hawai'ian lua to see if there might have been any common ancient source or transmission, but I guess back then interaction between peoples of the Polynesian triangle was virtually non-existent (thanks to this little puddle of water called the Pacific Ocean). I don't doubt that the Maori are not to be trifled with. My impression of the different island cultures I've encountered since being in Hawai'i (Maori, Hawai'ian, Samoan, Fijian, etc.) is that they all have very strong, vicious warrior backgrounds. Unfortunately, my screening of "Whale Rider" revealed that the movie did not focus solely on the warrior aspect of Maori culture (and of the two taiaha "kobudo" kata scenes I saw, one of the characters was using a pool cue as a taiaha, though it was still interesting to watch). I suppose it makes sense since the protagonist is a 12 year old girl, though I would have loved to have seen more of the warrior aspect. As an aside, what got me interested in learning about lua was a display in the Bishop Museum here in Honolulu. There was a painting of King Kamehameha the Great (first chieftain to unite all the Hawai'ian islands under one rule) holding four spears (three in one hand, one in the other). A British doctor on one of Capt Cook's (first westerner to discover and explore Hawai'ian islands in the 1700's) expeditions wrote about a weapons demonstration the king had put on for them. Six guys stood around the king holding spears, and he ordered them to throw them at him simultaneously. He caught three in one hand, and deflected the other three with his own spear. The doctor made a reference to Kamehameha being a master at lua, the indigenous Hawai'ian fighting arts, and the painting in the museum was a recreation of the doctor's notes. Getting us back on the topic of Greek influence...uh...I asked earlier in another thread about Pankration, which I understand to be an ancient Greek combat system used in olympic and gladiatorial combat. Anyone have any more information on that (a book would be best)? And to preempt, no more information on "modern" pankration please (all the links and information I've been referred to talks about modern pankration in the same context of submission wrestling and BJJ which for the moment I am not interested in. Info about ANCIENT pankration is desired). Shorin Ryuu does raise a valid point in that in terms of modernization and culture, the East at the time was ahead of the West which begs the question of "reverse" transmission. That is, in light of this info, do you think there might have been an Eastern influence or cross pollination, however so slight, on ancient Greek/Assyrian/Roman combat systems? Shorin Ryuu argues that a relationship between India and ancient Greece may have solely been trade based, but depending on the duration of that trade, I would not rule out entirely an influence one way or another on one or the other's fighting system. To stretch a little further, I'd also like to ask about the influence of African fighting systems. The Egyptians and Romans had their hands full dealing with the Ethiopians, which makes me wonder if their indigenous fighting system may have influenced however so slightly ancient Egyptian or Roman combat arts. I know...I'm all over the place on this one...

Anonymous One: Not to take us off topic too much, but I just recently watched a movie called "Whale Rider", a fictional account about the cultural revival of the Maori in New Zealand. I was wondering if you were familiar with their armed combat system involving the taiaha. A couple of the characters in the movie demonstrated what looked like a "kobudo" kata with the taiaha, and it looked very interesting. Also, do you know if it might be related to the Hawai'ian combat system called lua?

1. I'm not a Star Wars fan/geek, but I want to know how Anakin goes from ANGST! ridden punk to galatic bad guy. That, and I'm hoping that maybe this one will suck less than the first two (I'm not holding my breath)....okay that and the few people I usually hang out with will be out of town that week (*hangs head in shame*). 2. Hmm...a little bit on the geekside of the equation, but I'll go with Dark Side because I actually always sort of root for the bad guy in the movies (admit it, you do too). 3. ? (*shrugs*) 4. Whoever Samuel L. Jackson is supposed to be. Samuel L. Jackson is THE man. (not to be confused with the MAN)

'Atta boy Neddo . In a related vein, is anyone familiar with setting up non-profits or scholarships? I've had this idea for a "martial arts scholarship" for a few years, and I've been curious about how feasible it would be. If you are knowledgeable, could you PM me?