Skeptic 2004

If you define a style as a ryu, good luck trying to track them all down. Especially with guys who get promoted to a certain rank, break away, and start their own "ryu." Instead of tracking down how many different kinds of ryu there are, it might be best to sort out the core methods of karate, and then try and trace a style of interest to a particular core. This is simple because there are three cores: Naha-te Shuri-te Tomari-te All karate with Okinawa/Japan roots can be traced to either one or more of these cores. For example, I know a guy who practices a style called "Kishabajuku" which from what I can tell is a pretty small and remote style. The guy who founded Kishabajuku was heavily influenced by and trained under Shoshin Nagamine who founded Matsubayashi Ryu. Matsubayashi is a Tomari-te method. It's like the six degrees of separation game, except with styles rather than geneaologies of instructors. You might run into stuff like AKS (American Karate System) where the founder (Edward Lieb) practiced Tang Soo Do for a number of years and modified the stances and techiques to suit the "American" physiology. Or other styles with the name "karate" in the name somewhere, while yet having no connection to Japan/Okinawa karate. You'll more than likely encounter stuff that people just made up. These, of course, won't be traceable.

First, a small digression. Well...that's what happens when you step back. If you had moved in it probably wouldn't have hurt as much, and it probably would have hurt him a lot more. If you've ever spun anything in your hands (like a belt...or nunchaku), you've probably noticed that the velocity at the tip is greater than the velocity, say in your palm. Had you moved in you would have reduced the effective radius of his kick, and thus avoided injury. I only rambled about this because in watching matches I see his happen too often. Rather than moving into your opponent and jamming him, people try to keep their distance and jump back. The people who move in are usually injury free; the people who move back get hurt. [/digression] Anyway, I have a story that's already been told, but I'll tell it again. Our instructor was discussing the effectiveness of simultaneous techniques on opposing pressure points. Since pressure points never really work that well on me (they make me feel nauseous at worst, but rarely do they hurt that bad), I called him out on it. He eagerly demonstrated with a two handed shuto to the left side/base of my neck and above my right kidney. He didn't hit me hard at all; he just tapped them....and knocked me out. I collapsed on the ground and was unconscious for about 30 seconds. When I came to he was really worried and completely apologetic; he never anticipated such a reaction. When he had demonstrated on my friend earlier, my friend had just reacted as if he'd been punched. We all had a good laugh at my expense.

I'm willing to bet because they more than likely don't know.

My school has no official organizational affiliation. It doesn't give out rank or certificates for that matter. The instructor is of the opinion that your karate should speak for itself. His speaks VOLUMES, and I'm guessing that's why he's been able to teach for 30+ years without organizational affiliation and still attract students. His students' karate also speak VOLUMES, and some of them are just as well known as he is. Lgm is in a sense correct in that you have to be a well known personality or have achieved something great in karate in order to compete with affiliated schools. If you're not affiliated, then you have to have your own branding power through strong karate or at least pulling off some sort of stunt. Having your own karate branding power I think is more effective than the branding power of a large organization. People remember individuals more than they remember the bureaucracies. In Hawai'i, Bobby Lowe isn't well known because he's a member of a Kyokushin Karate association (I don't even know what the name of the Kyokushin organization is anyway); he's well known because he's THE most senior living student of Mas Oyama - he is THE dai-sempai of Kyokushin Karate in the world. And even though he's pushing 80, his karate is still better than most. Heck, it even spills over into other things. When my instructor was involved with the corporate world, he got his promotion to executive vice president for marketing not because of his sales or marketing skills (he had no previous experience), but because EVERYONE in town knew he taught karate. The fact that he worked at the company was enough for them to sell their product locally successfully.

Speaking as a soldier (commissioned officer), I'm going to disagree with you. In basic training we're taught some stuff just to beat the tar out of each other and get tough. Later on down the line, however, we're required to learn hand-to-hand techniques for the "just-in-case-for-whatever-reason-you-don't-have-a-gun-in-your-hand" scenario. Yes, the techniques are laughably silly if you have any previous martial arts training, but it still gets serious attention. Granted, unless you're special forces, it doesn't get continuous attention, but the one time course you take is still pretty intense (or at least, my course was pretty intensive). By the way, if you think our guys don't fight hand-to-hand anymore, think again. Read this: http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/08/gates-of-fire.html If you don't want to read the whole thing, basically, some of our guys were stuck in a firefight in Mosul when they ran out of ammo. What happened? An Army CSM took it to the bad guys hand-to-hand and won.

Well, Infidel, consider yourself lucky because I haven't met too many people familiar with this type of punching methodology. It is (or at least is supposed to be) a Shorin-Ryu methodology derived from Chosin Chibana's punching method...who learned this punching method from Itosu. When my instructor trained with Chibana, he watched Chibana punch makiwara for an hour one day and figured out what it was that made Chibana's punch so powerful. The two discussed it afterwards and he's been punching this way ever since. I've heard Shotokan guys say on these forums that they punch this same way, but what I've seen other Shotokan guys do in the flesh is very different. It's not as ubiquitous as you or I thought it would be.

This is something I wrote back in May on an unusual but effective and powerful punching method. I describe a drill for the reverse punch. This was also a discussion in a thread I started in May of the title, "A Different Kind of Punch": http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=255510&highlight=#255510 I've pasted the first post below for convenience: I took a visit to Shorin Ryuu's blog a few days ago and left a comment on his article "The Chambered Fist" (his response to the "re-action hand" thread: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=20242) which described an unusual way of punching that I've been learning since November. Rather than whorde the knowledge to myself and those who read his blog, I figured I would share a description of it and hear your thoughts. I apologize for any errors in its description, and these errors are entirely my own. I present for your edification my attempt at a description of "the Nakata gyakuzuki (reverse punch)", Nakata being the name of my instructor who is sort of notorious for his punch. His punching methodology is unlike any I've seen so far in my training with various instructors (and I've had the fortune of training with quite a few quality teachers). I describe the reverse punch since it is easiest to see and understand the mechanics of his methodology as compared to other types of punches (e.g., lead jab, uppercut, roundhouse/hook punch, etc.). 1.) Stand in a kihon stance (a shizentai/natural stance) and angle your body off slightly to whatever your target is. That is, don't stand with your hips and shoulders facing full front (the punch works standing full front, but it's easier to see the mechanics of his punch if you're angled off, and there other mechanics involved if you're facing full front). Make sure you have good posture (chin up!) and that your chest is flared (kinda like you're a body builder...). Make sure that the toes of your "lead" leg point forward and the toes of your "back" leg point out at 45 degrees (I use quotes in that in a natural stance there's barely a heel-to-toe difference between how much the "lead" leg leads). 2.) Extend the punching hand from chamber as if you were going to punch like normal from the waist (though it still works if you have your hands up in a ready position), but without turning the koshi...otherwise you hazusu (i.e., hand moves first...hips rotate last. If you rotate hips first and then extend your hand, you hazusu, or negate/deadlock your power). Do not rotate the fist yet. You should be palm up, and assuming you're angled off, your arm should be across your chest at your target. Keep your chest flared. Keep your wrists straight and locked (make sure they aren't bent outward too much or curled inward too much). 3.) When you rotate your fist, use your koshi at the same time (turn your hips as you rotate your fist) as if they were inseparable. When the koshi rotates, you bring your hara and weight forward, adding that extra umph! to that punch. Don't over-rotate. Rotate just enough that the hara is forward. Rotating too much throws your weight off at an angle, and you lose power. Voila. The Nakata gyakuzuki. Obviously, when performed this should all be done smoothly and there are a ton of other things that go into it (keeping your chest flared, keeping your posture straight, keeping your chin up, using gamaku, rooting yourself with the outside edges of your feet, bringing hara forward, keeping a tight fist at all times if you plan on punching with a closed fist yet inhaling/relaxing all other muscles as you extend your punch, exhaling/contracting your muscles and accelerating your punch on contact, etc.). Rotation of the fist (and thus, the koshi) does not occur until right after impact, so on initial contact, you're actually hitting palm up with the koshi unturned. Rotating the fist and koshi drives the punch into and through the target for penetrating power. Nakata's punch has incredible penetration, and this is what made his punch so famous/unusual. Try this punch on for size on a bag or a pad (or a person... ). If you do it right, you might be pleasantly surprised by the results. I've found it actually takes less effort to punch with the same amount of power than the old way I used to punch. The trick is doing the punch correctly - it has a very steep learning curve. But, once it is mastered, it is very effective. I speak from experience having been clocked by it...

This the best piece of advice out of all the others I've read. The three most important pieces Meguro highlighted are these: move forward and around, jam, vary your timing. You always want to move in. The best defense against a fighter who moves into you is to move in and work the angle. Moving in not only places you in a more advantageous position to deal a finishing blow or three on your opponent, it has a psychological advantage as you are well aware by your admission that it screws with you mentally. Moving in allows you to komu (jam, crowd) your opponent, which makes striking and/or grappling that much easier. If you can get used to moving in, working the angle, and being close, it'll only take a few times before he decides to try something new...like backing off, which will play right into your original strength of distance, or give you an opportunity to move in, and screw with him mentally (and physically as you deliver another finishing blow or grapple with him). Last but not least, and the most important piece of advice Meguro gave, was timing. Experiment with your timing by first matching his, and then forcing him to match yours. Be careful you don't get speed confused with timing. Varying timing does not mean varying your speed. Experimenting with timing could is as simple as, "Do I interdict him before he moves, or do I intercept him while he is moving?" The first requires you to read him carefully and pick up moves that he telegraphs. The second requires patience. All in all, Meguro gave the best advice. I'd go with that.

My attitude about this is very similar to my attitude about giving demonstrations (and apparently similar to what others have expressed). You should be proficient enough at all the kata you have learned that whoever administering whatever test could ask you to do any of them or ALL of them; the same goes for a demonstration. You shouldn't have to "rehearse", and you should be able to choose a kata at random that you know and perform it decently.

I'm going to disagree with you. In Okinawa, the most able practicioners (at least the ones we know about) of karate came from or rose to the upper crust of the class system there and raised/trained their male children in accordance of the principles of bun bu ryoudo - culture, war, and calligraphy. Bu - the part of the child's life that focused on karate or some other war art did not bother with the pretenses of philosophy or meditation; the child was expected to learn these things from his study of the Confucian classics (Bun) and his mastery of calligraphy (Ryoudo). Karate training was about karate and nothing else. Seeing how kata was the mainstay of karate training in those days in order to learn, preserve, and transmit techniques, kata is the only vestage of tradition there is in "traditional" karate. Whew. (*sighs*) Okay, as far as to your problem, Jion, I would probably say something appropriately cliche and trite, such as "There are many paths up the mountain" but you're going to have to make your own decision based on your own needs and your own desires for your development and training. One thing my instructor harps on is to never sacrifice your independence; if you want to go learn something else from someone else and incorporate it into your Shotokan, do so. Don't let your fealty to some organization get in the way of your development. I say "your" Shotokan because that is exactly what it is. You said you didn't want to start your own "MeStyle Ryu", but the way you do Shotokan is not the way your instructor does Shotokan or the way anyone else does it. Your body, strengths, weaknesses, and personal preferences are all different from his/hers. In a way you're already doing a "MeStyle Ryu." Take ownership of your karate and do what you want to do. Don't allow broad, sweeping generalization of styles deter you from giving them a try - if I had believed all the crap I'd heard about traditional karate before I actually gave Shorin-Ryu a try, I'd still probably be doing the crap martial art I was doing before - and pay no attention to worn platitudes such as "empty the cup" designed to tranquilize you and kill critical thinking if there's something you liked about what you were doing before that you want to retain. I agree with 24fightingchickens in that you should not let anyone (including your instructor...or people on these forums) control your decisions. ...yeah yeah...so I've basically said nothing...

I'm going to agree with 24fightingchickens. It irritates me to no end to encounter Western guys pretending to be Japanese, bowing incorrectly, and butchering the Japanese terminology when they're better off just explaining it in English (I had an instructor attempt to correct me on the pronunciation of a term once...I had to kindly tell him that I actually speak the Japanese language conversantly and that his pronunciation was WRONG). There's a fine line between appreciating the culture and trying to imitate it: everyone likes having their culture appreciated but becomes irritated when people suck miserably at copying it. Why are Western martial artists so afraid to be Westerners? If you've read Shorin Ryuu's article on traditional martial arts, the only thing traditional about them are the kata or forms. As long as you preserve and practice the kata or forms of whatever system you do, you are being traditional. Everything else is fluff. Funakoshi once said, "Karate is for life." It doesn't mean that karate is the end all be all of your life, but that it's something for the purpose of enriching your life; i.e., it should mold and fit who you are. Statistically speaking, YOU ARE NOT JAPANESE (if you are, please disregard). Uh..oh yeah...uh..."shomen" means front, so when you bow to the shomen, you're bowing to the front. I'm not educated enough on the religious connotations.

How tight is tight? This is a problem that might be encountered: people may become so obsessed with tightening their fists that they tighten everything else (bicep, shoulders, the whole arm, etc.). When you make a fist, check the muscles in your forearm. Those are the only ones that should be tight. When I mentioned that they pull toward your bicep, that doesn't imply that your bicep must also be contracted. If you feel your bicep contracted when making a fist, you're making it too tight. Everything but your fist and forearm should be loose. While timing is far more important, speed doesn't suffer when your forearms are contracted (having been nailed in the chest with both methodologies of tight fist first and then tight fist on impact, trust me...there is no difference in speed). Back when I was getting used to the idea, I used to do exactly what you describe you're doing now. And by "used to" I mean I still do that; I've accepted the idea on a cognitive level, but I'm still trying to develop it physically. I'm currently suffering from some sort of weird hybrid punch where my fist is tight at the beginning (since I tell myself, "Keep a tight fist"), relaxes slightly in the middle (since I forget), and then tightens at the end (since I tell myself, "Tighten your fist, idiot!"). The rest of my argument is valid only if you suscribe to the idea of kime. If you subscribe to the concept of kime, your kime is off by contracting at that moment that you described. You (*sigh*...and I) suffer from what Nakata calls "fist kime." Proper kime involves the simultaneous contraction of all the proper muscles and ligaments needed to execute a technique; if you're contracting your fist independently of everything else during execution, your kime is broken at that point and focused on your fist, hence the term "fist kime." Fist kime throws your kime off for the rest of the technique. If your fist is contracted before you execute, it does not interfere with kime during execution. Just to address issue of penetration, kime is an integral part of penetrating power, at least by Shorin methods (according to Chibana). Once again, this is only if you buy the idea of kime. Other factors include depth (as you've mentioned), hara, koshi, timing, and dropping the knuckles into the punch. Osae comes into play after execution when you're transitioning to the next technique and komu (crowd) your opponent... I hope Shorin Ryuu and I are not monopolizing the discussion, and that we could hear from others...

Why regrip and keep a tight fist? When you make your fist tight, the muscles in your forearm contract, pushing your knuckles forward, but also pulling your entire forearm back just a fraction of an inch or two toward your biceps. Try it. Hold your arm like you would in a punch, and then clench your fist. If your fist is loose all the way until impact before it becomes tight, when the muscles contract, they pull your arm back just slightly. Thus, you're effectively cushioning the blow you're supposed to be delivering to your opponent by "pulling" your punch (whether you intended to or not). Any impact from that methodology will be concussive and lack penetration. If your fist is tight from the start, when you strike you're not holding back, and you will gain penetrating power with your punch. This explanation really didn't make that much sense to me until I started punching heavy bag (100lb) and noticed the difference. Keeping a tight fist at all times, the bag bent around my hand when I hit, indicating penetration (the indentation of my fist in the bag was also neat to see). Keeping a loose fist and tightening upon impact the bag reacted as if I were wearing 8oz gloves (not to mention the bag didn't look like it had been hit). Anywho, I'm actually quite surprised to see the number of people who have been taught to keep a fist tight at all times. Before I started training with my current instructor, I was always taught to keep it loose until impact and thought that a majority of the people would be the same way. Keep it coming, and share your thoughts please!

One of the many, many things that I have been beaten over the head with recently is keeping a tight fist at all times for closed hand techniques while keeping all other muscles relaxed until impact. In order to ensure a tight fist, constant regripping becomes necessary. Seeing how I had never heard of this before I started training with my current instructor, I thought it was a quirk peculiar to him. And then he showed me a 1965 video of Chosin Chibana performing Patsai Dai. Sure enough, before each closed hand technique, Chibana relaxed his hands and then regripped, in order to form and keep a tight fist. I gave my instructor the benefit of the doubt and thought that maybe it was just something peculiar to Chibana and that it had passed to my instructor who was passing it to me. And then I saw a 1965 video of Hironori Ohtsuka performing all the Wado Ryu kata. Sure enough, this guy regripped too! I saw video of Chokki Motobu's son, Chomei, performing kata, and he regripped (though not as often as Chibana and Ohtsuka)! In short after the maybe unnecessary historical references, I want to know do any of you guys regrip to keep a tight fist? Do you keep a tight fist at all?

Shorin Ryuu was brief, but I won't be. Everyone has this fascination with wanting to be a "warrior." They hold this romantic ideal of the dashing warrior class in a feudal society, of the elite, highly skilled combatants loosed by their governments/clans to wage war on the enemy. Some buy into this ideal so much that they move to foreign countries to learn a martial art, adopt a foreign surname, and pretend to be something that they're not. Guess what: THE ROMANTIC IDEAL DOES NOT EXIST (it never did). We no longer live in a feudal society. THERE IS NO WARRIOR CLASS ANYMORE. The closest thing to a warrior class is your nation's military, and even then that is not necessarily so. For example, while held in high esteem in Indonesia, in Japan the military is looked down upon; in the U.S., the military is an equal with everyone else - our fielded forces receive ambivalent respect. That being said, I don't want to be hostile, but I will be blunt. Your definition of a "warrior" is highly problematic. Shorin Ryuu has already pointed out the flaw in your logic, and I feel it unnecessary to repeat it here. Instead, I propose you start by taking a good look in a dictionary first. A quick look at Webster's Dictionary for "warrior" reveals this definition - "a man engaged or experienced in warfare." In the historical context from which the word is derived from Middle English werreour and Old North French werrier (to make war) this use of "warfare" refers to conflicts where people die. I have news for you: unless you're in the business of waging warfare (i.e., killing people) YOU WILL NEVER BE A WARRIOR. Unfortunately, our current use of the word in the english language has diluted its meaning and the significance of the life choices involved in undertaking such a profession. Being a movie star or a highly trained athlete - or a corporate shark for those of you who read Sun Tzu before closing business deals - is NOT a sufficient condition for being a warrior. At best, you can hope to possess a "warrior spirit" - a mental toughness, maturity, and an enduring, indomintable spirit. You want to be the "best of the best" and that, I suppose, is a good start. However, having a warrior spirit isn't a career - it's a way of life cultivated through personal growth. You needn't be a martial artist to have warrior spirit - just talk to a cancer survivor. Martial arts training in and of itself only develops physical skill. What you do with your life and how you live are important determinants in your personal development. Bear in mind that having a warrior spirit doesn't make you a warrior anymore than Joe Blow from Tennessee having yamatodamashii makes him Japanese. All you need to do to edge closer to your goal of being "the best of the best" are three things: be yourself, train hard, and grow up.

I understand most of that (...goes to look up hyperfocal...), but yeah, I tend to make constant adjustments whenever I use that lens. The polarizer is my best friend...right behind the graduated ND and the ND filters I use.

I bought a Maxxum (D) 70-210 for my Maxxum QTsi which I use every now and then with my Maxxum 7D. I've got two gripes with it: (1) the autofocus is really SLOW. (2) Even though it's a Maxxum lens, for some reason it does not play well with my 7D - some minor, but annoying metering issues when I use that particular lens. It was a cheap lens ($90), so go figure. You work in a studio? Are you a professional? I'm an amateur, but I like taking pictures so much that I'm starting to get a little serious about it. Any tips? Yep...I have. I hope Ovine King and I aren't monopolizing the discussion, and I hope there are other camera geeks who wouldn't mind chiming in with some input?

DSLR is the best thing since sliced bread....well, not really, but it's great. I like the freedom and flexbility, not to mention the opportunity to proof a pic right on the spot and make necessary adjustments with the subject to retake. I got into photography using a glorified point and shoot film SLR (Minolta Maxxum QTsi) and had my film developed for me, so I missed out on the experience of raw developing fluids. I suppose playing with RAW files is the next best thing, but I'm not really into burning my eyeballs out staring a computer monitor for too long - it takes me at least an hour per pic to get it the way I want it if I play with the RAW files. Yeah, come to think of it the Tamron DI might already be adjusted for the CCD size. The thing is, the one I want is $800 on Amazon (MSRP is $1400 I think), and I'm having a hard time justifying spending that amount of money to myself...especially since I broke the bank just getting my camera (the Maxxum 7D is a great camera...but it's crazy expensive. It was $1700 when I bought it, but I've seen it for $1400 other places recently). I really like photography...but I'm not sure if I REALLY like photography enough to drop $800 on that lens. Maybe if I can make some money with my photos...I've entered a photo contest, and I'll see how I do.

I have a new favorite to add: The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis It's a short book, but man, it's deep. REAL deep.

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd tag along on this topic and ask those knowledgable about cameras a question. I've got a Minolta Maxxum 7D (and I absolutely love it), and I'm looking for something else besides the kit lens - not that the kit lens is bad (24-100: 3.5-5.6), but I'm looking for a good telephoto lens that won't break the bank. I've been looking at Tamron lenses and wanted to get someone else's opinion on them. Specifically, I'm debating whether I should get their 24-300: 3.5-6.3 XR Di zoom lens - since my camera is digital it'd be equivalent to 36-450. Now, it seems to me that a zoom lens with a focal length range like that would not be bad on the wide angle side, but a little problematic on the telephoto side. The thing is, it would be cheaper for me to pick up this lens than the other one I want, which is the 200-500: 5-6.3 telephoto lens. While an actual "true" telephoto lens, the latter costs twice more than the former. Thoughts?

Being a somewhat aspiring camera geek and loyal Minolta fan, I'd recommend a Minolta camera: specifically, the Minolta Dimage Z10. It's a 3.2 megapixel camera, and you can make video clips with resolution of 640 x 480 pixels at either 15 or 30 frames per second. Street price: between $160 to $270, depending on where you purchase it. For more info, check out this link: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Konica_Minolta/konicaminolta_dimagez10.asp For info on digital cameras in general, I highly recommend http://www.dpreview.com Reading the info on this sight helped me in my camera decision back in March. I bought a DSLR...man those things cost, but boy are they worth it.

JimmyNewton: Having been a member of your organization, I can answer this question quite easily for you. Shorinkan Shorin-Ryu was established by Hanshi Shuguro Nakazato who was a student of Chosin Chibana. Chibana established Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu. Thus, Shorinkan Shorin-Ryu is a cousin of Chibana's Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu. I say "cousin" because I train with one of Chibana's other students, and Shorinkan as it is currently taught differs in varying degrees from the original methodology that Chibana taught. Hope this answers your question. A good task for you would be to trace your lineage from your instructor to Nakazato. Once you can link to Nakazato, your lineage is easy to complete all the way to Tode Sakugawa.

My first and foremost favorite empty hand kata is Naihanchi Shodan. Others I like performing include Kusanku Sho and Dai, Itosu-Wansu, Jion, Useishi, and Niseishi. My first and foremost favorite kobudo kata is Kubo no Kun. Others I like performing include Anigawa no Timbei, Tsuken Sunakake no Eiku, and Maezato no Tekko.

My favorite books so far: Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa (Kodansha International) Eiji Yoshikawa was a journalist, and he had a running story about Miyamoto Musashi in a Japanese publication for about 10 years. He consolidated and condensed the whole thing and created what I think by far is his masterpiece. The Zentraedi Rebellion by Jack McKinney (Del Ray) If you're familiar with McKinney's Robotech novels, this one by far was the best. The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian by Robert E. Howard (Del Ray) The first of two anthologies on Howard's Conan. This volume has Howard's Conan short stories in the order that he wrote them as opposed to the chronological order in Conan's universe. Unante by John Sells (Hawley) The most comprehensive and well researched book on karate...ever. The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas The plot in four sentences: Fight. Get drunk. Hook-up. Repeat. Black Titan: A.G. Gaston and the Making of a Black Millionaire by Carol Jenkins and Elizabeth Gardner Hines (Ballantine) If you're looking for an inspirational TRUE story of a black man going from extreme poverty to glorious wealth in the deep South using nothing but his ingenuity and wit (decades before Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement), this is mandatory reading.

What you said makes perfect sense, but I would argue that your specific application of the palm heel with the "whip action" would be more of a surface impact against a hard target like the chest rather than penetration. The level of penetration you would achieve would depend on your "kime" (which to a certain extent, contrary to Arakaki, I believe Shorin-Ryu possesses), and the relaxation required for the whip action (if you're relaxed for the ENTIRE blow as opposed to either the instant before or at least on contact) doesn't really allow for much - if any - kime. Not to say that surface impact power is bad (it still freakin' hurts, and against something like the jaw, you'll have lots of reverberation in the head). Penetration through a hard target like the chest with the palm heel is still possible, but it is entirely dependent on the timing and placement of your weight transfer and kime. Consider the palm heel strikes in Maezato no Tekko. We practice what is basically a palm heel thrust by timing the blow to correspond with a drop in our hara (Arakaki's use of ICOG though Nakata would never admit it), and kime. Nakata demonstrated the blow on me to the class sans tekko so I could get a feel for what he was saying; he thrust his hand maybe an inch, but timed with his drop in hara and his kime made it feel like his hand hand gone through my chest and stopped my heart. It was kinda like Bruce Lee's "one-inch power punch" with an open hand I guess...