tkdBill

Great post White Warlock. It would be great if there was an agency or organization that could give the consumer un-biased information about martial arts schools and instructors. Unfortunately, it's not likely to happen anytime soon. Currently, it's not that hard to avoid the McDojo if you're willing to take the time to do a little research and try a few classes. If you think you're in a McDojo, you probably are. Go somewhere else unless a McDojo is what you want. There are those who would rather buy a belt than earn it. --

I might say YES! I'm installing a new chimney (or pool)! The price the contractor charges you for the materials is about what you would pay at Home Depot to buy them yourself. He gets a much better deal because he buys in volume and has negotiated a low price with a wholesaler. Fact is, a professional martial artists instructor should charge a fair price, and students should understand that he is not a charity and makes something on everything he charges for. --

Enviroman, I agree with you. I also agree that $300 belt test fee is far to high. I personally have not seen that, but I'm sure it exists. He will most likely tell you $100 for materials and $200 for labor. The material cost he lists is what he's selling it to you for. Same thing in an auto repair shop. If they list a parts charge of $175 for an alternator, that is their selling price to you. They are probably paying half that. This is a generally accepted business practice. --

Now that is a sign of a McDojo!! Kids are capable if great technique, and should be held to high standards. They should also be taught discipline and respect. --

The school may well have been a McDojo, but that cannot be determined in a casual visit. The kids may be exceptional students that earned their black belts over the past 4 years of training. Mom's do, unfortunately, have crying babies. They are usually the siblings of the students. In my school they have to wait in the lobby so the students cannot hear them. Luckily, they are usually gone in time for the adult classes! --

Should the owner of a full-time MA school be poor to be a great instructor? I know I won't make what my dentist makes (MA schools are not profit machines), but I think I should make a reasonable living for my family and maybe send my kids to college someday. I don't expect my students to ask me to show them how I spend every dollar. If anything, dedicating my life to teaching martial arts has made me a better instructor than when I was teaching part-time and working a full-time job to pay the bills. Now MA is my profession, and my full time and attention is focused on teaching and improving my own skills. --

What made you mad? That the kids were learning martial arts instead of playing "Grand Theft Auto" or that their mom's were waiting for them? Or that repetition on bags is part of their training? It may well be a McDojo, but how can you tell by observing for an hour or so? Did you see their adult class? Again, it would take more than a casual observation of their adult class to make such a determination. I have some classes where we do bag work for the whole class. It might look boring to the casual observer, but there is a reason for it. If you watch 3 or 4 of my classes you would see that we do much more than bag work! Repetition drills are extremely important to perfect technique, even in non-McDojos. --

Kajukenbopr, you think that $1500 or even $3000 per month is a great living?? Where do you live? with a family of 5, I think that would put me below the poverty line! Of course there are people on this forum who think their instructor or sensei should be poor Since I teach classes 6 days a week afternoons and evenings, I don't "get" to have another job. I pay more than $3000/month in rent alone, and plenty on electric, gas, insurance, taxes. My rent is actually quite reasonable for the Dallas area, I know instructors who pay considerably more. I agree, $500 is steep for a BB test. I don't charge that much. My dentist charges more than that for root canal and only spends about 45 minutes with me. I don't ask him to justify every dollar I pay him, I just want him to be good!! I'm sure he has a nicer car and bigger house than me. I'm not sure I want a poor, struggling dentist working on me. --

kotegashiNeo, all dojos must have some rules for sparring. Some allow a wider range of attacks, but they all must have rules. For example, it probably violates almost every dojo's rules to actually break your opponents neck, even though it could happen in real self-defense situation. Since all dojos have rules, they must be followed. It is up to the sensei to make sure that each student follows the rules. If not, one student might go for the neck-break technique and unfairly kill his opponent. I know, I know, someone could really try to break your neck in real life, so the guy should have been ready for it, so therefore sparring partners should be free to use such techniques when practicing. If you allow neck breaks or even late hits in sparring, everyone should know about it. If you don't allow neck-breaks (or late hits), the sensei must enforce the rule. All students must respect the sensei and his rules. --

It depends on the risk i would incur. I pretty much always lead with a jab probably because it is a relatively safe way to gauge his reaction. If I knew for sure that he could not hit me back, I would go with the cross... no, wait a minute, I wouldn't hit him at all.... --

Good advice! I always tell my beginner students to "run away" from a fight. It seems that many white belts have learned a few moves and think they are pretty tough. I have to bring them back down to reality. --

congratulations

The difficulty using the most powerful weapon (back hand strike or back leg kick) is that while powerful, it is easily blocked or evaded if used alone. They can also tend to open you up to counterattack beacause you have to turn your body into your opponent. That's why you may be more effective by distracting your opponent with a less painful but quicker front hand/leg, and then apply the power blow after he reacts to the initial strike. Since in a real S/D situation you don't have time to work through a list of techniques, you must react quickly and effectively, while not leaving yourself vulnerable. --

White Warlock, almost no one goes into martial arts instruction expecting to get rich. It just doesn't happen. Is anyone who makes a living a "profiteer"? Martial arts training is not so worthless that instructors should not get paid to do it. Finding a good taekwondo school is certainly not harder than finding any other quality martial arts program. There are several organizations that closely regulate standards for student training, belt promotion, instructor training, and instructor certification. Of course you have to be wary of the independent guy who just starts teaching without any verifiable authority to teach, but If you do your homework and check certifications and references as well as observe or try classes you can easily eliminate the McDojos. --

Enviroman, I agree that a contract is neither a sign of a good school nor a bad school. I know some excellent schools that use contracts, and I know of excellent schools that do not. As a professional MA instructor, I prefer to only accept students that are committed to working toward their black belt. I require an annual agreement. It definitely lets me focus teaching and not on whether I will be able to pay the rent next month. There is nothing wrong with a good instructor earning money for working hard and providing an excellent service. Btw, I do bring in masters and other senior instructors from around the country. What a shame that this is your experience. I personally know some great programs that really positively impact children. I know some outstanding martial artists that started in these types of programs 10 or 15 years ago. definitely NOT just a marketing ploy!! --

Actually a sign of a good school, one that requires more than a month to month commitment where people just drop in and out Another possible sign of a good school if their belt testings provide value such as guest judges to ensure consistent standards and ranks that are issued by a recognized organization, not just the school. Could very well be a sign of a great program with excellent student retention. I'd be afraid of a school that could not attract and keep a significant student base. Like anything else in life, if the private instruction is valuable, it is worth paying for. Remember, you usually get what you pay for. There is plenty of cheap training out there, but is that what you want? This world would be a much better place if more children had good martial arts training. I am proud to do my part instilling character and martial arts values in the children I teach! A matter of taste, not a sign of a McDojo. There are many excellent kickboxing schools and Brazilian jui jitsu schools that have very little "traditional" martial arts feel. I agree with you on this point. In fact, the instructor should have had at least several years in an actual instructor training program after receiving his black belt. Earning a black belt does not mean you can teach. --

The waiver may actually be sufficient... after you spend a ton of money on legal fees and a lot of time in court proving to the judge/jury the validity of the waiver and that the guy signed it freely AND that he understood what he was signing. Good luck proving all that! The other guy and his attorney will say that the waiver didn't cover the precise situation that caused the injury, he didn't sign it freely, and he didn't understand what he was signing. None of this is either assumed or automatic. --

Your original post made it clear that the other guy was CLEARLY out of control with regards to both respect and your normal dojo courtesies. I'm sorry, but this is clearly your instructors fault. If it is normal practice at your dojo to wear scooby-do t-shirts and pound people after they are finished sparring, then what was the point of your original post? --

I Agree, these are essential in the dojo. The instructor should also maintain control of the floor at all times. If he has a student that he may not be able to trust, he should watch him closely when sparring other students...if he lets him train at all. --

Very true. I would be extremely embarassed and dissapointed if I found out that one of my students had taken part in something like that. --

Great observation! Come to think of it, neither do heavy bags or speed bags. I still think they are all good to hit for training purposes. --

How did you arrive at the 90% statistic? In my 10+ years of experience in taekwondo, I'd say that is completely false. Also, I personally know many skilled taekwondo fighters. No punches to the face?? Then I must be teaching it wrong!! As a matter of fact, that means our whole national association must be teaching it wrong too! Thanks for straightening me out. We'll also need to lighten up on the hard contact work we do.

McDojo is a term that seems to be used to describe any dojo that someone doesn't like. While "McDojos" definitely exist, I think the label is way too overused. You cannot use price, age of blackbelts, testing fees, etc. to make such a determination. McDojo is a school that offers low quality training to a high volume of people. Expensive does NOT mean McDojo...in fact a very high quality school is likely to be expensive. I don't think anyone should call a school they are not thoroughly familiar with a "McDojo". Without actually experiencing the training offered and working with the students of a suspect school, you are being prejudiced. --

I think you are falling victim to a common stereotype that taekwondo is all about aerial kicks and not for overweight people. Of course we teach aerial kicks to those kids who want to learn them, but it is not a requirement of taekwondo and most of my adult students do not do them. Our forms (katas) do not contain aerial kicks, and there are no requirements for aerial kicks for rank advancement. I have more than a few adult students that cannot kick more than waist high, and they are excellent martial artists. Don't rule out a style because it is so popular. Instead, go see why it is so popular. You need to check out several styles and schools and try a few classes at the ones you like. This will give you a chance to not only experience the instructor's teaching style, but also give you a chance to meet and chat with other students. If an instructor will not let you try a few classes for free, you might want to be concerned. --

The title of this thread is "Why everyone hates taekwondo". Obviously, since taekwondo is the most popular martial art in the U.S., everybody doesn't hate it. Many practitioners like the sport aspect of taekwondo competition, and that is fine for them. That is what initially drew me to taekwondo as a young adult looking for a physical activity. Now many years later, I appreciate the art of taekwondo. Taekwondo is an art, and just like any other martial art it can be used as a sport by those who choose to do so. This is not unique to taekwondo. It seems more prevalent in taekwondo only because of taekwondo's popularity and high profile. --