tkdBill

In taekwondo it is not uncommon to be able to reach black belt in 2 - 4 years. It should never be promised or guaranteed in ANY timeframe. In the system I teach it is possible (but unlikely) to reach black belt in 2 years. When I am asked, I tell students that while it is mathmatically possible to reach black belt in two years, it usually takes at least 2.5 - 3 years with serious training. Of course most students NEVER make it to black belt. --

Are you referring to one-day self-defense seminars? If so, I think it may help in rare cases, but will generally not prepare someone to react in a real life self-defense situation even against an untrained attacker. People take those classes for the same reason people buy every weight-loss plan that comes down the pike, especially the ones that do not require excercise. People want results, but they do not want to work for them. --

Flexibility is only half the secret to high kicks. You must also develop the appropriate muscles to be able to through controlled high kicks. I have my students do slow isometric side kicks and front kicks to help build their strength. --

Yes, I use the "room to play" frequently when sparring my students. I like to experiment and try things that i would never try against a peer in competition. --

Thanks, aefibird. In my area, tennis lessons & music lessons cost significantly more than MA training. Forget about gymnastics, dance, or cheer lessons...they are all outrageous. Should MA training be the cheapest out of those? I'm sure those cheerleading lessons will really pay off someday! --

I've been practicing taekwondo for over 10 years, and I have definitely been taught techniques designed be fatal. I don't know first hand how effective they are, and I hope I never find out. I don't teach them to my colored belts or even 1st degree black belts. --

The most difficult step in anyone's martial arts journey is the first step out onto the mat. All of us have had to take that step, so we all know what you are feeling. That is one of the reasons that no one will think you are intruding. An instructor wants to teach. Without people like you who want to learn, there would be no one to teach. I have students of all shapes and sizes ranging in age from 4 to 57. Find a dojo or dojang you like and try a few classes. Do it today, don't wait until tomorrow. --

The vast majority of those on KF are not training at a pro boxing gym. Many people who train at "McDojos" think that their training is brutal. --

It really depends on what you want. If you want to train with a professional full-time instructor, it will usually cost more because the instructor has to make a living and pay for a expenses. Of course you usually get value because he's always available, has a dedicated facility, and MA is his life. Like anything else, it's buyer beware. You cannot assume that a full-time instructor is worth his higher prices, but there is no doubt that a good instructor will become a better instructor if he teaches MA for a living. --

Actually, almost every KF member's school is probably considered a McDojo by someone. The label gets liberally applied here. We all have different ideas on how a dojo should be. --

Is that a good thing? I don't want to be known as poor. I wouldn't want to go to a poor doctor or use a poor lawyer. I'm quite certain I don't think I want my MA instructor to be known for being poor.

My students pay $80/month and $50 for testing. We are on the low side in my area, average is around $90/month. --

Right on White Warlock. The best deception is to not let them know what you're capable of until it's too late for the other guy. If you go into a "MA stance" you're telegraphing big time. It's funny that the guy goes into these elaborate poses and then the actual fight turns out to be two guys wildly throwing haymakers. --

Luckily for me, my students understand that I work hard AND get paid. Testing day is the hardest, most stressful day for me. It's also during a time that I would normally be off and spending time with my family. I don't think that anyone should be concerned that I actually get paid for working extra. Since my passion is also my job, I love my work. My kids also love to eat, and my mortgage company insists on receiving payments. Like anyone else, you should not pay your instructor more than his services are worth. On the other hand, if he provides an excellent service, you should not mind paying him for it. Just because a professional loves what he does, the value of his services are not diminished. --

Wouldn't you also get "drunken boxing" if you use fire-water? --

I walk the neighborhoods near my school for an hour or two 2 - 3 times each week and put flyers on doors. I keep track of the streets I've done so that I don't duplicate too soon. It comes out to about 1000 flyers /month. I just print the flyers on my laser printer or make copies at a copy shop. --

Never happen. They have the money, they have the political drive. All you have is your moral stand. You loose. Me? I'll take care of my own little corner of the world and try and get allong with everyone. That's not true. Just like any other profession, a truly talented instructor with business savy can become wealthy. It's not the norm, but it happens, and not by accident. There are wealthy world class chefs who make more than McDonalds owners. In any profession there are those who work hard and work smart and can achieve much. Of course every successful person has critics, often those who are jealous of his success. In martial arts, some just apply the label "McDojo" to any large successful school. Some large, successful schools are McDojos, but many are not. Martial arts instructors are not in a lesser profession than any other professional. If you have an excellent program and some business acumen, you can go as far as you want. --

They are not needed, but they are good for business. Six month contract is fine too. Even if people enjoy training, external things happen that cause people to want to "take a break" from training. Sometimes these things happen in bunches. In my experience, these "breaks" often end up becoming permanent. My students who have considered taking a "break" but don't because of their contract always end up glad that they stayed. If you have little or no overhead and are not depending on the income, contracts are not needed. If you are a full-time professional martial arts instructor, contracts let you focus on your training and your program because you are not not so worried about who will pay you this month or next month. Contracts are certainly abused by some, but the instructors on this forum are surely ethical enough to use them for the benefit of both the student and the business. Make no mistake about it, contracts provide a benefit for both sides as long as both sides are honorable. --

Yes, you are a martial artist. Of course so is every white belt in my beginner taekwondo class. Whether or not you are a martial artist is not important. A better question would be whether you are a good martial artist or an effective martial artist. --

Offering a quality program is the best way to ensure success in the MA business. Belts should never be guaranteed to anyone. I think we all agree on these points. My advice to anyone who wants to open an MA school: insist on annual contracts. Call them "membership agreements" or whatever. You will always have to pay your rent and bills. If you can be sure of your income for several months into the future, you are less likely to fail. If you come across slow times, you have time to react and adjust your marketing (or your program) instead of just going belly up. If a prospective student says that they will not make a committment, I suggest they go for more of a recreational program like the YMCA. My program is a serious martial arts program. I seldom lose a prospective student because of my contract, especially after they take a few trial classes. I have several students who wanted to quit or "take a break" at some point in their training, but they didn't because of their contract. Today they are excellent martial artists and very happy that they stuck it out. --

Excellent post, USCMAAI. Although what you point out should be common sense for a trained martial artist, it's always good to re-enforce these things with our students. --

We do one year memberships, which is what most schools I know of use. I do know some schools that offer a 3-year "black belt" memberships. These can be a good deal because they are usually discounted, and if it takes longer than 3 years to reach black belt you don't have to keep paying. --

Relax, it's probably not anything about you or your program. It is normal for some of your students to quit at some point, and about a year into their training it happens more than we like. It is a fact that most people who start training in MA's do not make it to black belt. Blue belt is a fairly normal dropping off point. The training becomes more difficult, and their progress slows down. In the beginning, it's all exciting and learning new cool things every class. As time goes on, they must polish and perfect techniques which can seem less exciting. That doesn't mean you shouldn't fight back! Membership agreements (don't use the "C" word) are a good idea, it helps them understand the level of committment up front. In my school, we are introducing a Jr Leadership program for blue belts and up. We have a special class for leadership training every week, and they get special t-shirts and patches on their uniform. The Jr Leaders have to set the example for lower ranking students and help lead the classes. So far their is much excitement about the program. By the way, people seldom tell you they are quitting because they aren't planning on quitting. It just happens. They skip classes for a week or so to take time off, then a week becomes two. They just stop coming, even though they have not actually made up their mind to quit. Of course some people are just inconsiderate. --

Do they have the option to not participate, and therefore not pay the $20? Your time and effort are certainly worth something, and it's fair that you are compensated. If a student (or parent) thinks it's too much, then they should be free to not take that course. Some people will complain no matter what you do. You can't let that get to you. --

TangSooGuy is right. While testing fees are understandable, no fees should be hidden from students and prospective students. You have every right to know what it will cost you down the road if you continue to train there. I charge $90/month for training, testing fees are $50 for colored belts and $100 for black belts. All fees and other potential costs (sparring gear, uniforms, etc) are outlined in the orientation package that I give to new students. --