Zhong Gau

Whatever Mente intended to do he did not express clearly as even you have only theories. Don't offer up just that he's a no-faced antagonist with lots of experience in "wushuiness" with a holier than thou attitude - you speak only for yourself. And for the record, you sound like a kid. Attacking someone's martial arts skill because of a verbal debate? perhaps you should re read my statements after you have cooled down. I have read a lot of menthe's statements about his experience and i can understand his perspective from not only his point of view but from another as well. If he felt offended by my statement of my assumptions about his experience i'm quite sure he would've let me know. Did you check my statement about the differences in experiences? (the second one in the post.) sounds to me like you're the one who may have maturity problems. I think you have read some nonexistant attitude into the discussion. which basically means the problem is all you: your inability to accept a differing point of view when it seems to affect you personally, hudson. I know wushu is very popular in england as it is more artisitic than savate. elsewhere in this forum there are threads with more indeapth information about wushu. and if you're baffled about my reference to 'squirrel style': a number of years ago the Hung Fot grandmaster made arather lengthy arguement in other forums for the existance of squirrel. its quite humorous and 'trite' in his words. the basic premise of squirrel is that all you can do is block and run away because it is inherently *BAD* to hurt someone. occasionally one of your blocks might miss and actually hit something but it shouldn't be considered an attack because it wasn't intended to be. so there.

The basic premise in all martial arts is to generate as much power as you possibly can. circular movements *tend* to generate more power than linear ones. certain TKD kicks, like the one used to dismount a rider, are not acrobatic and tend to develop more power than anything wushu and most things kung fu. in principle, the idea that you can generate more power by spinning is correct. its basic physics that has to be reckoned with.

The Mantis style can teach you the intricasies of the horse stance (Its twelve variations and names). the way my sifu explained it: everything is basically horse stance or a variation if you want to concentrate on fighting don't worry about naming anything, just fight. One of my more immediate brothers who runs the english school tried to teach like our sifu but was met with unusual resistance by people comming in from japanese styles whom have names for everything and want names for everything else. Chan's school does this. It's probably one of the reason's why they make more money than we do.

one thing we should all keep in mind about kung fu myth and legend is that these stories come from a basically oral tradition. and by looking at all the legends of a certain myth a truth may be extrapolated: in the case of drunken style it appears a monk had a good night out came home and taught some folks a thing or two. The manner in which the wisdom of the style's technique and the events is conveyed depends upon the story teller.

Hudson, Chat Tsing: I too have heard that variationof the origins of drunken, almost as a buddist 'mishnaic' explanation of the story as expressed to us. interesting variation on mantis style origins. i think a happy middle road can be extracted from the propaganda of both.

from this description it sounds like Hung Gar, as drunken monkey has pointed out several times. DM, did you get you info from this thread or other experience?

yeah, i've heard of it. the guys who do it are not ma professionals, although his lion head dragon dance is featured in several jackie chan flicks and has been used for new years celebrations in china. i've not heard of that other guy someone else mentioned.

actually, mon kai dai, the eight immortals are a taoist homogenisation of society into eight classic faults that keep people from attaining enlightenment. the Faults are immortal, persistent, timeless and more difficult than your last opponent.... the story about the drunk was an abbot who disturbed the guards and laid them out, the ruckus woke almost everyone else. of course, they died and he began a life of carousing to try to learn what it was he did right the first time. Historically, drunken style is a result of the shaolin system absorbing ba gua principles and is part f the 3rd choy li fut tradition inheritance that yip was preserving. i think it was one of the five 'principles' in his repetoire/exam.

isn't liu he ba fa from omei mountain? the buddist nunery? where wing chun is rumored to have been created?

In Fu Long Siu We do not teach anyone under the age of 21. I made the mistake of teaching a few techniques to my daughter and she crippled a kid three years her senior when she was 7.

Lau Gar: Now virtually extinct. like the white cat. .

this looks alot like what yip taught with the exception of the dangling claw. I went over to one of Chan's schools in Tampa and posed as a moron. they start thier new students on wingchun and teach that as the foundation of mantis style. I recall both kwong and Lam Jo telling me that durring the big fight both Yip and Chan reverted almost exclusively to wing chun. durring the fight yip discovered a weakness in kwong's method and tried to teach it, on the spot, to chan.

sounds stylish.

Wing tsit chan

does anybody know these forms? does anybody know if they're available on video? would you produce them if they're not?

'cutting' in chinese systems is an act of deep penetration or massive surface disruption/bruising.

warlocke: no sir! that thesis was exceptional.

indeed it is. iyou should see how easy it is to reduce your opponent to jello using a good dragon twisting style, fa tching and rapid deep tissue massage!

that religion is buddism. i think a 'pure land' minhayana subschool of which chan is also a part. their basic precept is the alleviation of suffering through enlightened meditation on the teachings of Sidartha Gutama ,Bodisattva and bodidarma (aka Da Mo). They believe in the martial defense of life versus nature and predatory man. traditional buddist weapons from india include a staff, a knife, a bronze bowl/shield and an iron pipe. its other precepts on living were/are very much like the boy scout law and oath and creed and motto. instead of khaki they wear orange. on my honor i will do my best to do my duty to God(Buddah) and my country(Fellow Buddist): to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight. a scout/buddist is : trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverant. be prepared! odd how Baden Powell founded scouting in 190x after visiting india and noting how clean, helpful and respectful the people were in their common interactions....

hey guys, menthe may have left it open intentionally to encourage a heated discussion. menthe may have been responding to the statement in the middle of the post (2nd to last line), based on grammar and his experience as a stylist as posted elsewhere. his experience may be such that your experience is unique in the broader spectrum of wushuiness. he could've been feeling ornary and wanted to challenge you kids mentally to see how easy it'd be to pick a fight when all you can do is squirell style.

maybe someday....

So, is 'San Soo' a choy li fut principle or not? does it come from the five families lineage or is it one of hung gar's five substyles? someone earlier in the thread stated they were unaware of a style that developed out of hung gar that was also choy li fut: My style of clf is just that. My teacher left Yip Mann after being invited by yip to join him and went to study with Lam Jo, a reknowned Hung Gar sifu who placed either first second or third in the forms competition at the Beijing Nationals Competition twenty years in a row. Most of our system was formulated before the yip invitation was issued and was codified in Tiger Runs Down a Mountain form, which was Kwong's responsive petition to Man's invitation. Pui learned it from kwong, but that's okay 'cause we also do mantis forms. to paint a colloquialism: Hung Gar became the icing on Kwong's cake, specifically because of its internal form "Iron Whip". After the formal challege by kwong against Yip and Chan Yip accused kwong of developing a style specifically designed to kill "3rd choy li fut practice inheritors" as the three styles of the Man system was known at that time in china. kwong defeated every body at yip's school except chan while he was a 'student' there: yip interrupted the first fight after watching it for some time. Yip officially defended his cream puff student Chan, declaring him the winner. eighteen months later kwong defeated both yip and chan in a challenge for the grandmastership. although chan is preeminant here in the states, in china kwong is legendary.

i dunno.

what the hell is eye-key-hole?

What you are looking for in kung fu is "Chin Na" or Eagle Claw. we also have escapes and an internal series of techniques for slipping holds, grabs, locks and resisting throws without dislocating or breaking yourself.