Ottman

New to ju jitsu, but I love wrist and hand locks so far. Chokes would be my second choice, but anything that hurts, really, I'm not picky.

Have you noticed that breaking competition has fallen in quality recently? Don't know who competes out there, but I love breaking, and I've noticed that even at the black belt level, the traditional inch thick pine boards are being replaced with some 1/4 inch balsa wood junk alternative specifically so that these crazy aerial techniques with flips and cartwheels and 720's can be preformed and the board still be broken. Strangely enough, the guys using the real boards and real techniques always seem to win anyways. This is why I love the judges in TKD competitions (at least the ones I've been to) they're not buying it. Having officiated, I know that the criteron behind judging board breaking always gives precidence to the guy who breaks the most wood (or cinder or whatever) no matter how much flare, flips and spins he/she uses. Difficulty of technique comes next, then maybe flare at a far distant third. Of course, if these high flyers were to start breaking real boards (and lots of them) then I'd be in trouble, but I have yet to see that happen. Anyone have any words on this?

I agree with you Sam. I can't do any of these multiple aerial spin techniques, and can't say that I've even tried any (save 540 kick, which I tried once and immediatley thought better of it.) They really have no practical use unless your giving demos as one of the korean tigers or something. (not my thing, I think those guys are great atheletes and all, but I hold there fighting skills under suspicion.) BTW, Have you noticed that breaking competition has fallen in quality recently? Don't know if you compete, but I love breaking, and I've noticed that even at the black belt level, the traditional inch thick pine boards are being replaced with some 1/4 inch balsa wood junk alternative specifically so that these crazy aerial techniques with flips and cartwheels and 720's can be preformed and the board still be broken. Strangely enough, the guys using the real boards and real techniques always seem to win anyways. This is why I love the judges in TKD competitions (at least the ones I've been to) they're not buying it. Having officiated, I know that the criteron behind judging board breaking, always gives presidence to the guy who breaks the most wood (or cinder or whatever) no matter how much flare, flips and spins he uses. Difficulty of technique comes next, then maybe flare at a far distant third. Of course, if these high flyers were to start breaking real boards then I'd be in trouble, but I have yet to se that happen. Know I'm off topic here, but it's been on my mind so it's coming out now. In fact, I'll copy this post to a new thread in the Korean MA section and see what my other TKD buddies have to say about it. P.S. Member of the month Master J. Congrats!

TKD blocks are generally not oriented to blocking leg kicks due to the sport aspects of sparring, (which doesn't allow leg kicks) but we are taught to move away from an attack before blocking it, if possible. We practice these evasion techniques (at least at my school) in every direction against a wide range of attacks, moving from side to side, back and forth, around and behind our opponents, and we are taught to counter attack with these movements as much as possible. I think the sideways stance is far superior to the face-on stance in that it cuts down your own body into a much smaller target area, and, for me anyway, I don't lose any mobility. We also train to stay in constant motion while fighting, reacting to our opponents movements. Notice that Bruce Lee himself used a sideways stance in most of his fighting. To put it in perspective of MMA fighting: I have been sparring with a San Shou kickboxing school that also does MT and I've had a lot of success there using the sparring style I learned in TKD. I Find that these guys want to kick to the outside of the leg as much as possible, and only having one leg presented to them really messes them up. If they attack the outside of my leg, I move to side, or in close and attack. They try their attacks with so much power that they've completely comitted to the kick and once I move out of range, they're off balance and it is easy for me land a devastating kick, or a few quick punches and get back out again. If they try to attack the inside of my leg, I can either move again, or guard and block by raising my knee and this works well too. One thing I've noticed about Kickboxers and MT guys, is that they over commit when kicking. They never seem to try to fient and fake me out. It's just one huge, powerful kick that's easy to avoid and throws them off balance because they don't seem to think that I'll move out of the way. It's always puzzled me. I used to throw mulitple kicks at them (a fake with one then a more powerful blow) but when I realized that most kickboxers will stand still and try to raise that knee to block, or just absorb the hit, I don't even throw a feint anymore, I just make a telegraphing motion with my hips, they usually put their knee up, then when they set it down I let 'em have it. Maybe this isn't the case with other kickboxing schools, but I'm constantly suggesting that these guys move around more, but they don't seem to want to listen. To them, kickboxing is the most superior fighting style on earth, despite that I usually dance circles around them with my TKD skills. Sorry to be so long winded, but I had to defend my style here.

I completely agree here. This is how 'mcdojos' continue to pop up; they are franchised just like their fast food namesake, and we all have seen what has happened to the quality of fast food restaurants over the years. However, just as with these fast food franchises, there isn't much we can do about it, except remain steadfast in our own training, and continue not to patronize or promote these 'mcdojos' even if they become a majority. In this case, we can't but be stubbornly selfish in our quest for progression. We can't make others share in our passion. If a person wants the image; wants to be an 'ornament' so to speak, they will be hollow on the inside and fragile, easily broken when it comes to applying real skill. We cannot add substance for them, they must add it themselves, and until they are ready to make the change themself, no one else can convince them to do so. So if they are content to be 'ornaments' I say let them. Anyone who frequents McDonalds restaurants does so because they are fast, cheap, and stimulate the tastebuds in a way comparable to how crack stimulates the pleasure glands in our brains. 'McDojos' are not far off from this, they are fast and cheap, and the thrill and prestige of easily rising through the ranks of the martial arts, no matter how fabricated these ranks are compared to real schools and real martial artists, is unfortunately what the vast majority of people in today's society are looking for: the easy way out (or in, in this case). All we can do is continue to be the best that we can be, and rise above the hype.

The 'deadly weapon clause' from what I understand is just a rumor, but it would be tough to convince a jury that you were 'merely' acting in self defense if you cause severe harm to your opponent. A lot of non martial artists are very wary about their percieved notions of what martial artists are capable of and if one of us uses deadly force, it unfortunately causes trouble for all of us in terms of image. The lay public has a pre-concieved notion (and a correct one IMHO) that martial artists should be able to neutralize a threatening and violent situation rather than escalate it with the use of deadly force. If we go around causing severe harm to people, even if it is in self defense, we are seen as deadly weapons in the eyes of the public (even if we are not seen as such by the legal system) and a jury of our peers will come down on us more harshly as they believe we should have known better, and in most cases (the vast majority of cases) they are right, we should know better. This is in fact the beauty of the US legal system; the jury does have a certain range of freedom to determine the severity of a punishment (or to punish at all) based on the circumstances of the situation. In our case (Martial Artists' case), it can be bitter sweet in that it can give our whole group a bad rep because of a few bad apples, (IMO it is also bittersweet because of the gender bias that Zhong Gau mentioned) but I also truly believe that it is the best system of justice on the planet, despite its setbacks. If any non-US citizens on this forum care to compare their legal system to ours, I would love to hear any arguments as I really don't know a whole lot about any foriegn legal system. This is just what I believe based on what I've read and observed.

Well it seems like you're on the way to fixing your problem by your last post, but I see this a lot with lower belt students who are trying to break boards with side kicks, even at low heights. Their problem is not one of strength or flexibility, but improper technique. As others have said, making sure that your grounded foot pivots so that the toes are facing 180 degrees away from your target is very important to proper side kick technique, especially when trying to kick above belly height. Also, make sure your toes on the kicking foot are pointed down and are below the ankle. This will force you to use the edge of your foot, which will in turn, force you to extend in order to execute the kick with any type of force. A good exercise that really helped me develop proper side kick technique is to walk around on the edges of my feet with my feet turned so that my toes are facing inward (towards each other), emulating the proper foot and leg position for side kick. Then, as with anything, it's all about practice. I do suggest that you practice with a target as much as possible until you really get those higher kicks down, then forms and 'air kicking' will come more naturally. Good Training!

It isnt my impression Im talking about! I have known a few of them, and talked about it with some of them. And they actually think its Honorable. You know some of these guys?! So if you could talk with them before, why not try it now? I've always found that aggressive trouble making types are easily dealt with by NOT being an aggressive trouble making type back to them. Humor usually works well, and self depricating humor works best. It's tough to laugh and fight at the same time. Try making friends not enemies. I was once at a party in a not so bad, but not so good part of town, and there were a few guys (clearly a crew) who I overheard making plans for causing trouble just because they thought (didn't know, just thought) that a friend of mine was being a wise-* in the way he was acting. (Maybe he was, but we were all drunk so you know the scene.) One of them flashed a blade, and then noticed me casually watching them. His buddy turned towards me and asked me if I had a problem. I noticed he was wearing a jacket with a pic of Bruce Lee on the back, and I commented that I had noticed it and liked it. He and they were immediately friendly with me, and seemed to forget their plans for violence. We discussed kung fu movies for a while and then went back to having a good time. The party lasted throughout the night without incident. In my opinion, I defended my friends with my words and attitude without raising a finger, even though they didn't, (and still don't) even know what had taken place. To continue with my analysis of your situation, if they are making rude and insulting comments to you, then they are clearly trying to get a rise out of you so that they have an excuse to beat you. Don't let them get that rise out of you, and don't stoop to their level by making insulting remarks back to them. Just ignore them or try being nice, no matter how rude they are being. You might be surprised at the results. And if your friends judge you by whether or not you will incite and take on 10 opponents in a street fight, then it's time for new friends. If none of this works, and these guys are truly just out for meaningless violence and mayhem, then I suggest you take the advice from previous posts and stay away from them, or travel in groups, get the authorities involved, or carry a gun (even though it might be illegal, it doesn't mean anyone has to know you have it. If these guys are such deliquents, I don't think they are gonna go to the law to turn you in. I doubt that they frequent police stations save when they're being booked with some crime.) Other types of weapons might help, but against a group of 10, even having escrima sticks or nunchucku or the like probably won't scare the group away. A .45 pistol with a 15 shot clip probably will though. Just remember that your first line of defense doesn't have to be a violent or even physical one. Try the peaceful alternatives first, and if that doesn't work, then try avoidance, and if they're still hunting you, then you have to do what you have to do. Good luck!

Sorry, turn kick is the same as roundhouse kick. (Still getting used to transposing technique names across multiple styles.)

walking stance is actually the same as forward stance, but just less forward We also use cat stances, though rarely, and there is an official fifth stance called the ready stance, but it's the stance we're in when at attention, so I don't count it as a stance outside of traditional TKD classes. Crescent and hook are also a couple of my favorites, but I rarely use them in sparring (only if I find myself up close and my opponent is off balance, otherwise they're kinda risky to execute.) My favorites while sparring are defensive side kick and front kick (push kick.) Turn kicks are great, but in the sport of TKD they are so over-used (IMHO) that they are somewhat ineffective. Everybody's waiting for them. Out on the street though, turn kick would probably be the first kick I throw if I found myself in a jam. Quick and to the point. P.S. Sorry Master J. I'm kinda new here though, I'm sure we'll bump into each-other again. And I'll definitely remember you then.

:Edit: ('KISS' Right. now it's ringing a bell. I have heard that philosophy before.) They're the basic stances taught in most martial arts: Forward stance: front knee bent over the front ankle, back leg outstretched, weight over the foreward leg, (I actually don't find myself in this stance much, but it's good to clear distances while attacking and maintain balance in doing so) Back stance: front foot pointing forward, back leg bent slightly, weight over the back leg, (this is usually my starting fighting stance, and my back foot is on the balls of the toes. Defensive in nature, but a good ready stance.) Horse Back riding stance: Just like it sounds, (with weight evenly distributed over both legs, and butt lowered as close to the ground as possible without losing your center of gravity.) I often transition into this stance if my opponent shifts accross my feild of vision. I can easily get into any position from here as my weight is evenly distributed. Also, if attacked, it's a very sturdy stance (for me anyway) so it's tough to move me off balance while in this stance. The last basic stance I was taught is walking stance, (also just like it sounds.) Actually not much use to this one (for sparring anyway), just used in forms instead of forward stance sometimes. But anyway, I've gotten the weight distribution from training in these stances down so that I can move, parry, and attack without losing my balance from just about any position, which is what I was really getting at. Depending on how I have to react to my foe, I find myself automatically transitioning into these stances without having to think about what I'm doing. From there, like I said abave, I can attack or defend or shift my positioning easily and without losing my balance. You're right Str33t, I just got the muscle memory from these stances since I've been training with them from such an early age. I just never really thought about a converse/antithesis (or whatever term applies here) until now. You live you learn I guess. Oh yeah, no I don't train with Master Jules, in fact this thread is the first time I've heard of him (that I can remember.)

I understand your criticism Sr33t, but I'm not trying to 'destroy' anyone. I think I can hold my own pretty well if I was attacked on the street, and I have few enemies, and don't usually get into situations that would warrant me having to 'destroy' anyone, but thanks anyway. After looking at your OODA diagram, I've found that I actually follow its principles, it's just that the way I was trained, (and the way I continue to train) involves multiple basic stances (not many, just about 4.) Since I have been training this way, since I was twelve, (22 now) I have had the time to master each stance, and it's no longer complicated for me to use multiple stances, or to add new stances, (in the case of my capoeira training specifically.) I hadn't, until now, looked at it from the other side with someone who has always trained with just one stance. Reflecting back on my last post, I guess if you have developed the ability to vary your one stance to the situation, you can use it in the same way I described my use of multiple stances. If you have one stance that works, and it has worked for you for all of your training, stick with it. No reason to switch up now, just as there is no reason for me to switch to one stance now. Just wanted to put my two cents in from my experience. P.S. Can someone please explain the KISS theory to me? I haven't heard it yet. Also, Master Jules, I don't plan on ever stopping my training either

were the brothers asian or american? This might help someone recognize the movie. It sounds like it might be 'Double Dragon' but I don't remember the plot well enough to confirm. I'll keep looking and let you know if I find anything else though.

Elizabeth Shue wasn't really all that hot until Back to the Future or Cocktail (IMHO) This is part of why i liked the third one better. I don't know who the so called 'pot making girl' was, but she was better (again IMHO)

I've always thought of stances as a way to train your body to understand its own center of balance better. I've had (admittedly a small amount of) tai chi training, but just those concepts of my own balance that I took away from the exercises I learned really made me understand why the stances I had learned in TKD were designed how they were. While in motion, our center of gravity is, clearly, also in motion, and each stance can give you a range of quickly and acurately executed movements. With practice, (I know I have a long way to go before I've reached the level of say master jules, but I have been training for ten years now) I've gotten to the point that I don't have to think about which stance I need I to snap into to react to my opponents. I try to stay in constant motion at all times while sparring (while engaged in striking anyway, grappling is a little different of course) and whereas in the past I've really had to spend a lot of energy thinking about my foot work, and how I was able to move from certain positions while reacting to my opponents movements, I can now do it fairly automaticlally, but I would never have gotten to this point without practicing endlessly my basic stances with different variations in feet distance, weight distribution, etc. (One of my favorite training methods was to ride the subway here in boston without holding on to any rails and see if I could make it the whole trip without taking more than one step at a time, and then just to shift my stance position.) After all this training, I've come to the conclusion that stances aren't for standing, they're for setting your body up for the next movement. (Just as most of the scraping around on the ground in ju jitsu is for the same thing.) Adopting this philosophy has greatly improved my understanding of how to effectively use my footwork to set myself up perfectly, then it's just like chess, get every piece set and move in for the checkmate. A great example of using stances this way is on the basketball court. I play a lot of ball, and have found that moving into different stances is a great way to change directions more quickly than even the most experienced basketball players, who know nothing of the principles of weight distribution in forward or back stance. (actually, the capoeira jinga is the best method i've found for stopping and switching directions on a dime. No one has been able to keep up with it yet.) I've found myself open, and on the way to the hoop with little or no resistance a lot more often since I started paying more attention to the body intelligence that can be gained from practicing the basic stances thoroughly. Regardless of what your fighting stance is, the normal range of movement in a typical fight will require you to use these principles of balance and wieght distribution that can be learned through basic stance training many times while dancing with your opponent and maneuvering for position, so whatever your typical fighting posture, be assured that it won't stay that way for the duration of a match, and never limit your ability to move for lack of knowledge of your own body. Any type of training that can teach you about yourself, or what you might come up against is invaluable, especially if it shows you where you're making mistakes.

It's been my experience that people who don't really want to learn the martial art they are training in, but rather take classes for image or socialization or whatever, usually quit and move on to other things before making it very high up in rank. In that sense I can sympathize with the bill payer argument. The instructor is (in my case, at my martial arts school) putting in her best effort to teach what she is being paid to teach, but as in every type of schooling, if the student isn't putting in their effort, then it doesn't matter what the instructor does, this student will not make it to black belt, and will quit at whatever level they exhast their potential at. So if they want to continue to train, it's their perogative to pay, and just because you only make it to blue belt, doesn't mean you haven't gained from your experience. Not everyone is black belt material. If they want to pay for an image, or a place to meet their friends, which will consequently lower my tuition costs, I'm cool with that, but that doesn't mean that they will make it to black belt just by paying for it. Not at a real school anyway. The training will eventually catch up with them, and they will lose interest. This doesn't, however, mean that the school is a mcdojo, or that the belts given there are mcbelts. In any true school a rank will reflect the student's dedication to their martial arts, and their own self-improvement. Whether this dedication meets the standards of a certain rank is determined on an individual basis by the instructor in light of what she observes not only on the mat, but in how the student acts as well. Attitude is everything. Most instructors, and any true blackbelts, can recognize who will make it to black belt when the student is at around yellow belt. Those displaying a black-belt attitude are easy to separate from the crowd, and maybe they are afforded more attention from the instructor, but from the instructor's point of view, it's more worth it for them to focus on making great martial artists out of those with the potential to become them, than it is to work twice as hard to try and force it out of someone who doesn't want to put the effort in. I don't think that mcdojos, or mcbelts are what is being described here though, this is just the natural curve of abilities that every school has to draw from. Not everyone can be the best. A mcdojo in comparison is one in which the master isn't doing his/her job by teaching each individual student at his or her pace, to meet his or her abilities and goals. These real mcdojos are the schools that have inflated ranks, since at a real mcdojo, (which coincidentally is what i see happening at many universities and colleges now too) you do only have to pay, and you will advance. With so many black belts coming out of them, interested outsiders think that it must be a good school, so they pay and get their black belts, and it might be chaper for them, but are they really blackbelts?

those are some pretty nice knife defense techniques. I wonder if these guys created them themselves. A requirement for each black belt test at my school is to develop three of your own knife defense techniques, and for 2nd dan tests and beyond, an additional three gun defense techniques are required. It really gives you a chance to use the skills you've learned to develop defenses that work for you. Of course we learn generic knife defense before black belt, but I love making up my own. It's one of my favorite parts of testing.

A few beginner tips of my own: 1) Concentrate on movement and foot work rather than striking and attacking for now. You need to learn how to avoid attacks, and position yourself correctly for your own attacks before you can spar effectively. As others have said already this (as everything) takes time and practice. Don't give up 2) Try to move away from attacks rather than blocking. A lot of beginners like to stand still and 'practice' their blocking skills while sparring. Blocking should be a last resort. Moving out of the way should be your first line of defense. 3) Don't forget to move laterally (side to side) in addition to just back and forth. This is another mistake that I see a lot of beginners make. They don't move laterally, and the most effective counter attacks come from moving to the side, out of the way of an attack, and countering at an angle. This allows you to move out of the way of an attack, without moving further away from your opponent and out of your own range of attack. 4) As steveb already mentioned, stick to basic, direct kicks like turn, front, and side, instead of trying more fancy spinning and jumping kicks which will get you into more trouble than is worth it right now. Once you improve these advanced techniques and move up in rank, you can practice these more advanced moves on lower belts to get better at them as I'm sure is happening to you right now. (trust me, you are the higher ranks' guinea pig for now, but don't let that deter you. Learn from the mistakes you make and keep at it and you will get better. Just because your getting your licks now doesn't mean you're doing poorly. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. Try to learn something about your own sparring style in every fight, then work on your weaknesses and technique in class.) Good Training!

I personally like number 3 the best, though I could see an argument being made for the first one being more timeless. Either way, pat morrita is the man, and I like all three of them just because of his acting, no matter how cheese it is.

Ralph Macchio never had martial arts training either. In fact, I don't think anyone in the cast did. I heard that the referee in the tournament at the end, (the featured one who refs for the final match) was the coreagrapher and trainer for the movie. I forget his name though.

don't know if anything like this has been mentioned before, but I used to wrestle in jr. high, and have been doing jiu jitsu for six months, and i've met a bunch of guys who are clearly overweight, and couldn't run for very long at all, with the beer gut and everything, but are also some of the strongest guys i've sparred with. Let's not overlook nfl linemen either. You might be really overweight, but strong and powerful also.

Sure, but even after you're done sparring, you can still get better just by thinking about your own technique. Takes no energy at all, what could be better?

Side kick off the front leg is my favorite defensive maneuver, and with practice you can get it lightening quick and full of power. I urge everyone to practice side kicks at different angles (if you don't already.) I've found that being able to throw one from any position, in any direction has been extremely useful. Now when my opponents think they are circling me into a good position, I can just wait for them to try an attack, and then BANG! A side kick they never expected hits them, and then they hit the floor. In fact, while I try to mix up my kicks when I spar, I find myself using side kicks more often than any other kick. I love 'em!

Not that I dislike Jackie Chan, but he uses as much wiring and special effects in his movies as anyone else, save for computer imagery, which I'm glad he stays away from. I like him because his stunts are extreme and exciting and obviously physically very difficult and dangerous, but as for being a real deal MA superstar, he doesn't even think of himself as a martial artist, and the last real deal MA superstar, (if not the only one) was definitely Bruce Lee. No wires, no stunts, no gimmicks, just martial arts, pure and simple. Others might argue that Sonny Chiba came close, but I wouldn't exactly call him a superstar. (I don't think his movies were ever quite as mainstream, although the Street Fighter movies were awesome!)

WW- I understand what you mean. In the fight you need to react to the opponent, and therefore the mental activity of visualization is counter-productive in moments of actual combat, but I meant visualization in terms of a training regimen. Not in-fight, but pre-fight, and during training as a way to engrain the physical movements you personally use and execute in your memory, so that you don't have to think about it in a fight. Not sure where I first heard about the general studies on visualizing and meeting goals, but here is a link to a site on the physical, and neurological implications of visualizing physical activity, and then executing it later. http://dubinserver.colorado.edu/prj/elo/p03.html I hope you'll find it interesting.