Harlan

Look, do what you want. The original question was what each person thinks on the issue, and that is how we train. Bow, don't bow. Hug, don't hug. I will suggest this: when it comes to hugging and misunderstandings and lawsuits and predators...perhaps it might be prudent to keep things professional.

Bowing in, in a traditional Japanese martial art, yes, it does have a purpose. As for Muay Thai, I have no knowledge of that art and couldn't say.

If something isn't based in training, it has no place in the dojo.

And here we have the crux of the divide: either kobudo is a seperate study that merges with empty hand at some point (or not...depends)...or kobudo as a slave to an empty hand system. I believe that when kobudo is taught with the mental construct of it being an extension of one's 'primary' art, that at some point one will have to 'unlearn' in order to master it.

Q: What MA camps have you been to? A: None. Been to one/two/three day seminars and gasshuku. Q: What do you look for in a MA camp? A: For all activities, I weigh the benefit to the cost. 1) If it's more of an obligation to attend, I suck it up and try to attend. 2) If it's in my style and specifically targeted at what I want to learn I am more willing to attend. 3) If it's outside of my style, but I think it can be of benefit to my development, I weigh carefully the time and expense. What goes into the whole calculation is who is teaching, and the travel/hotel/food costs. Q: What's the average, if there's such a thing, price for attending a MA camp? A: Never been to a 'camp', but for the seminars I've attended, they ranged from $100 (no room/board) to $250 for the weekend (including room/board).

First off, one has to understand and accept that 'traditional' weapons arts are a relic of the past. Very few people currently walk to work, their fields, with agricultural implements, and have to worry about defending themselves. Even the more robust of kobudo systems, ones that focus on body mechanics , have good bunkai, are solidly linked to a hearty empty-hand system, and have realistic forms, need to be understood as historical artifacts. When seen at open tournaments, for the most part, good kobudo is unrecognizable by most judges. They simply don't understand what they are looking at or what to look for. That being said, the question asked is two-fold: is form useful, and is training in traditional weapons useful. I'd say, 'yes' to both. But, it depends on the depth of knowledge of the sensei, developing a deep understanding of the principles of each/any particular weapon, and a willingness to be honest about real-world applicability. (Don't bring a bo to a gunfight.) Many kobudo practitioners are enamoured with form, and don't 'test' it. Like empty-hand, some will keep the most absurd applications to justify a bad form, rather than question.

I don't think it's lost it's 'value' at all. I think it has diminished in appeal due to marketing, as mentioned previously. Real karate is extremely valuable. Just hard to find.

There are all kinds of videos out there, usually ones ripped off from his instructional dvd's (I think). Here is a nice blog post, with an image of his hands, from someone who trained with him last year. http://memoirsofagrasshopper.blogspot.com/2009/03/sensei-higaonna.html

My thoughts: no one is going to take the icon on for archaic training practices.

"Reflecting Absence." Read this on the online version of the NY Times yesterday...and it was beautiful. Just beautiful.

The few people that I know that still actively train (almost EVERY DAY) after 20/30 plus years found a way to incorporate it into their lives. They have struck some balance between martial arts training, work and family obligations. The factors they seem to have in common are: stable home life and work situation, reliable income, and supportive spouses. Every situation is slightly different, so you have to identify the factors that are in the way of training, and work around them. Not many of us are willing to 'get a new wife' (alluding to Dave Lowry's essay on the subject). But you might have to get a new job, cut back on hours, ditch an obsessive partner...in other words...look at your priorities and make sacrifices. Personally, I have only been able to take one kobudo class a week since I started MA. That meant finding the time for solo practice. So, you don't HAVE to make it class every day (although mat time is crucial) - but training has to become a large part of 'who you are', and then you will find that time appears.

Not a lot of Chung Do Kwan 'out there'. Old style. My teachers trained and taught CDK before moving onto Goju. We istill train kobudo with the folks that stayed in CDK, and they are still VERY similar to Shotokan.

The original question wasn't whether or not techniques have multiple application, but if one has seen literal kata. Obviously, there can be multiple applications, but if linked with performance and it can be this or that...well...then one is looking at something that is generic, and also typical of public performances. As I see it, there are multiple applications for many of the moves. Some can be applied as a throw, strike or block. Would you agree? Frankly, I like 'literal' kata: "This is where you grab the head, smash the face, and break the neck."

Yes. But I don't train in THOSE schools. To me, if it looks like a punch or kick, and sensei says it's a punch or kick, then that is what it is. On the other hand, we do Goju, and train Goju, as a different animal. Much of a kata's interpretation, what seems like an obvious, literal, application, is dependant on pre-existing assumptions. Change those assumptions about application, body dynamics, movement, power generation, attack lines, etc, and a whole new 'obvious' shakes out.

Once money enters the equation, I think it's a slippery slope. Once you depend on headcount you really are no longer master of the situation. Sure, one can start out with noble intentions, but once the rent goes up it will force a teacher to decide what is more important...teaching or retaining 'clients'. All the tests, belts, tourneys, belt clubs, and semantical and psychological gymnastics only serve to obscure this central fact.

It wouldn't really be an issue if one is selective in accepting students in the first place. The way I look at it, there are two strategies: - Accept all that walk through the door and weed them out along the way. Accepting attrition as a fact, and letting them pay (you) for the privilege. -Accept few students, testing from day one, and invest your resources into them to assure success.

Now...that IS where I get uncomfortable, and WOULD appreciate some feedback. Asking for credentials if fine...but actually calling someone up...I personally would find that a little uncomfortable. First off, if one is training with a higher dan, his/her instructors are going to possibly be very senior in rank and age. In the Okinawan school I study in, some of these folks don't even speak English, live overseas, and have passed on. There are different cultural expectations of students and I personally feel it would be presumptuous to actually follow up.

I should think what might be considered 'rude' is really contextual. I mean, as a non-beginner, you are in a different boat than a beginner, and I should think it makes a lot more sense for someone like yourself to ask about a teacher's 'history'. I prefer to use that term, vs 'credentials', as it covers training, rank, lineage, etc. and less likely to get an instructor's back up. And this IS America, after all. Someone that gets offended by respectfully worded enquiries about their background would be entirely suspect. As for saving money for the gas ride...it's gas you would be spending on a regular basis if you decided to train there. And basing something on a phone call? Paper certs over hand's on? The best restuarant I ever ate at was called the 'No Name' restuarant in Boston...because it didn't have a sign and was located in an alley near the wharves. You had to know it was there...word of mouth. I kinda think of karate teachers like that. In that situation, you don't have to ask about 'credentials'.

The internet is a wonderful thing... What do you consider to be 'credentials'? Word of mouth introduced me to a Goju school. Then I did the 'formal' thing: respectful initial contact to watch an advanced class, private discussion later about personal goals and concerns to see if it meshes in with the teacher and school, discussion of times, prices, expectations, etc. I based my decision on that process and it worked out wonderfully. Didn't give a hoot, personally, about rank, or lineage...because what I saw on the mat the first day sold me. After I made my decision, I did enquire about years training, rank, lineage and associations...but had no clue at the time as to the ramifications; to me, that constituted one's 'credentials', but that information was useless to a beginner (in that style).

Absolutely agree. But being non-commercial, and private, I choose my students. If they show up, work hard, and practice, they will get better. At some point, I'll pass them up the line to an advanced teacher, and if belts and rank matter...they'll get to earn it from them. The way I look at it, a student's performance is a reflection on the teacher. No one gets passed up the line if they don't pass my muster first...and that is done class by class.

I would never tell a student that they 'failed' at anything...especially if they are children. They would never be invited to test unless they were practicing in class at a certain consistent level. No 'grading' system, no 'points' as there is always room for improvement.

Having taken off 85 lbs with a low-carb lifestyle, I can attest that all calories are not equal. Aside from the practical advice already given, if you find that you're stuck with a metabolism that doesn't respond well (and have checked out any possible underlying physical problem, such as a thyroid condition, diabetes, etc.), I'd suggest you look into a diet that is low carb with adequate protein to nourish your muscle mass.

Having any color belt around your waist doesn't give you the 'right' to teach. Your teachers do. And respectfully, I'd never base my decision to train with someone on something so devalued as a belt color.

Keep looking!!! There are good schools (even TKD ones ) that offer classes for as low as 2$/class taught out of churches, recreational centers, etc. It's only by looking that you will find...anything. And don't be closed off to the possibility of taking a different art that isn't what you 'want' but might have a great teacher, be affordable, convenient and closeby. And it may very well be that you may only be able to work out an arrangement for one class per week with someone you like and at price your mom is willing to pay. Practice at home every day...and you will still be better than all the TKD kids that attend a school three times a week and end up quitting.

Style: Goju-ryu/Matayoshi kobudo Rank: 7 years, never 'tested' Hours train: 2 hour classes, three times/week Not including physical therapy, swimming, strength training additional karate/kobudo varies - teaching 3-6 hours/week.