harleyt26

http://shureidousa.com/kobudo/sai.html There are some fairly good pics of shureido sai here.The stainless and chrome do come in round(easier to polish I would imagine)I would recommend stainless to avoid chipping the chrome finish.The indigo dye used on some of their sai wraps is a natural dye from okinawa and the countrys national color.Black and indigo are the only colors available,but you could always rewrap them yourself.

real sai are not made of pot metal

I use the old style shureido sai,most people on this forum do not seem to agree with my opinion of them but I prefer them over the newer design.They do cost a little more though.The difference is in the way they are made,old style is a two piece design and the newer ones are a three piece design.I do not have pics to post but I do not think you will be sorry for buying any shureido products.You might try a different supplier till you find one that has them in stock.You will find that shureido only imports to the U.S. through their California store.

In Atlanta,Ga. in 2001 at the Okinawa Rengokai World Championships the bos were supplied by Shureido and were all prewayed by the officials I do not remember what the appropriate weight was but I am sure if you get a Shureido bo you can not go wrong.I like mine.

In Tawada no sai as taught in the Tesshinkan the sai is thrown at the foot of your imaginary opponent(aproximately one meter away from your own foot)then as you turn away you draw the third sai from your obi at your back.I have seen Tamayose sensei and Shimabuku sensei both perform this kata this way.We are taught that in Chatan Yara no sai and Hamahiga no sai that these are not throws but are instead low blocks as you move the foot on that side to a safer position,in these kata the block is practiced on both sides in Tawada no sai the throw is only done one time.I am sure that other styles of kobudo have other applications for these movements,the Matayoshi system and Yamane ryu systems do these kata a little differently maybe their applications are a little different also.It is my understanding that in the early days the sai maker would tell you to bring the metal for the sai you ordered,if so then the number of sai you ordered would be dependant on the metal each person could round up.That would make more sense to me than the sai maker having a large supply of hard to get metal.

While training in Okinawa with my sensei Tamayose Hidemi, he allowed me to use a set of his sai which happened to be the old style I referred to.I asked him about the design differences and his explaination was that the earlier style was two peice design which you can still get from Shureido but you must pay a little more to get them,The newer three piece design is welded together in a jig.The benefit of the older design is a better balance as each sai can be balanced individualy before being welded in place where the newer design is welded in a jig regardless of balance.He still prefers to use the set of sai presented to him by Akamine sensei.Tamayose sensei is a high school shop teacher in Okinawa and a very good freind of the owners of Shureido,welding and metal work is what he does,as well as the president of the Tesshinkan.It is my opinion that the bump does take a few minutes to become accustomed to but the balance more than makes up for it.I do not understand what was meant about the thumb not being properly positioned,I find the bump to be a great advantage when applying locks to other weapons,But that is just my opinion,only one other person in my dojo uses the old style most people do prefer the thinner new style and the price is about fifty dollars less.

If you practice your bo like a baton it is not a weapon.I was in the army what they practiced the drills with were mock wooden toy guns,and that was only the drill team.There was a sequence of moves for weapons inspection in a formal setting though.At no point was I taught to use my M-16 for any flashy or impressing movements.I use kihon practice to familiarize myself with my bo.Extremly bad habits that are very hard to break can be built by the flashy useless training.Any time you hold your bo with one hand or out away from your body or( hopefully) throw it into the air,it does not belong to you anymore you have lost possesion and control at that point.I would agree that cheerleaders look very cute doing that with their batons though.

I use a set of old style shureido sai,I like them very much because of the large bump where the blade is driven through the yoko of the tines.I find the bump to actually be a leverage advantage.I have had cheaper sai with the large bump there and did not like them because it caused a very noticeable imbalance in the weapon.I have also owned the newer style shureido sai,they are also very nice but I have become accustomed to the old style.

I do not do tournament competition,I train fighting techniques.If in a fighting situation with me and you wanted to spin your bo or throw it in the air,I would love it.If everybody did this kind of kobudo I would not need to train so hard.Keep practicing it sure looks pretty although totaly ineffective.

motobuha-shito ryu,ryu kyu kobudo-Tesshinkan

we have steel bo in our dojo,we call them tessen.6 feet long solid stainless steel 1/2 inch diameter.we donot use them very often but they do help with correcting some technique problems.When using them you must go very slow to prevent injury,by going slow with such a heavy weapon it allows the instructor the opportunity to correct some problems that are difficult to see at high speed and or full power,but the extreme weight duplicates the motions of speed and power.Be very careful not to over exert yourself and cause injury.

The Sochin I was taught (motobuha shito ryu)is almost identical to shotokans version.If you find the form you are referring to please let me know if there is an alternate name,and was it a shito ryu stylist that you were learning it from or another system?

http://www.shureidousa.com/about.html All Shureido products are brought into the U.S. through Shureido U.S.A.,the owners are directly related to the Okinawan owners in Naha.I was purchasing my Shureido supplies through Kamakazi in Spain but the California store found out and stopped Frank at Kamakazi of Spain from importing Shureido brand items to the U.S..Spains prices were lower and the shipping was less and faster.I love Shureido equipment but I hate monopolies,they eliminate our freedom of choice by removing competition.

Yondan Motobuha Shito Ryu,Shodan Ryu Kyu Kobudo-Tesshinkan Ocala, Florida Tom Hodges

In the style of kobudo I practice all blocks with the sai are done at an angle either to slide the attack off as a deflection or to slide the attacking weapon into the tines of the sai to lock, trap or redirect the attacking weapon.We are never taught to block at a nintey degree angle with the sai,it is a short weapon and will not have the neccesary leverage to stop a weapon with more reach or one that would be handled with two hands.The high block for instance if done flat over your head in an attempt to block a shomen uchi or downward head strike(not an exact translation)from a bo or sword will result in an incredible headache from your own sai if not done at an angle.It is my understanding that the early sai were made from tie rods from vehicles in the area(possibly military jeeps).I do not know if a sword could cut through a tie rod they are pretty hard. Tom Hodges

A couple of weeks ago I was training with two Isshinryu stylists,their Naihanchi started to the left besides that it was very close to what I do.They commented that their Shorin Ryu freinds start to the right as I do.Which directions do other styles step first?I assume the front and back version starts to the front? I would not think Naihanchi kata would start in a defensive type step to the rear. Tom Hodges

Shodan - Ryu Kyu Kobudo,Tesshinkan Yondan - Motobuha Shito Ryu Jukyu - in everything else. but I am training hard

I think it depends on the bo manufacturers location or wood supplier.Shureido does make their bo out of asian red oak,very nice dense species of oak.But the american red oak is not as hard or dense and I find white oak hard enough but to flexible.A good wood in my area is hickory it has an almost waxy surface that moves very well in your hands.Purple heart makes for a nice bo material but can get a little heavy.I think most bo suppliers use a cheaper imported red oak,most of the lower priced bo I have seen have places the manufacturer has filled with wood filler( putty).Many of the people in my dojo use some of the more exotic species like mordillo,cocobolo, jatoba and others for kata bo but for kumi bo the favorite of most would be hickory for its durability,weight and finish or rattan for its lightness and flexiblity.I own a Shureido red oak bo,A hickory kumi bo, a white oak bo and an african paduak bo.I like them all for different reasons.What do you prefer for bo material and why?

I was with one instructor for many years,after I had reached a very advanced black belt level with him the advanced training seemed to slow to a stop.I beleive that he was running out of new information to pass along.At that time I requested to train under other instructors as well as him,he insisted "no training outside the dojo".Of course I became stagnate in my training after a couple of years I became bored with paying my dues and not progressing in my training,I left his dojo to find a whole world of information.The instructors I train with now have more to offer than I will ever be able to learn in my lifetime.I asked one about this,he told me he tells his students "if you see something you would like to try training in go learn it then bring it back to my dojo so we can disect it and see what makes it work".That filosophy just makes much better sense to me,and I think it is a sign that a instructor is not afraid that there may be something better out there,he is very secure in his art.My decision to leave the first dojo was very difficult for me I have a very loyal nature,but you must be loyal to yourself as well as your art.And remember you started training in the arts with a goal in mind be loyal to your goals.Do not just be blindly loyal to an idea or a person that may or may not be deserving of such loyalty.

Natural finished Shureido sai will rust as will the chrome where they chip,you might consider stainless steel,I think weapons connection makes afew models.My instructor in Okinawa just gives his sai a coat of vegetable oil after each use and wipes them off real gfood before each use.He does not like the shiny ones much.I oil mine regularly,at least once every couple of months.

Training with traditional weapons not only familiarises you with the weapons but also gives you an opportunity to learn the techniques that have been tested and proven and passed along from generation to generation.Why train with someone who only has their own experiences to base their teachings from when there are masters out there who have such a wealth of knowlege,take advantage of the opportunity before it is gone.I have trained with both types and can tell you when you do you will have no doughts that the techniques of the traditional weapons are most definitely applicable to any hand held weapon including firearms.Do you think walking down the street with ballbats ,chains and poolcues would be more readily accepted than nunchaku, tonfa or bo,unless your street is through the ball park I do not think so.

How much difference can there be 1904-2004.As far as fighting is concerned the rules have never changed and the same basics still apply.I think if you research what was taught by Taira Shinken and Akamine Eisuke and the other weapons masters you will find the same logics apply today to the same weapons.We have some technilogical additions to our arsenals but that does not change the concepts of battle.Walking down the street with weapons was looking for trouble then as it is now.Although it may not be legal to go armed most of us find a way.

Sorry it got stuck and did not want to submit,then all of a sudden it submitted three times.I have had the opportunity to compare both sai,the Agena sai are definitely very nice,I would recommend attending a function where they are being diplayed ,to feel them for yourself.He makes more than one model,I thought the thicker ones were a little heavy,my personal oppinion. I use Shureido sai I have both the newer three peice design and the old style two peice I prefer the latter. But I would love to have a set of Agena sai someday.

I do not know Shihan Kelly myself but I am familiar with his good reputation.Unfortunately I was not fortunate enough to find myself in a Motobu ha Shito Ryu dojo with the authentic background and experience that Mr. Kelly has.I do not want to sling mud or reopen old wounds so to speak so I will just say I trained in Motobu ha Shito Ryu in the central Fl. area.The kobudo kata you listed for the most part are from Kunibas sylibus,I also did most of these (with a few exceptions) when I was training in Shito Ryu.I now train in Okinawan karate and kobudo,it was the best thing to ever happen to my training,I train in fewer kata but the ones I do I know to an extent and depth I never knew in Shito Ryu.Chiken shita haku no sai is the first sai kata in our sylibus then Chatan Yara no sai then Hama Higa no sai then Tawada no sai.I go to Atlanta now and then to train with Sensei Dan Smith in Shorin Ryu maybe we can arrange a stop off. Keep in touch. Tom Hodges

Hi Ron, Tsuken shita haku no sai and Chiken shita haku no sai are the same kata it depends where on Okinawa you are from which name you call it.My style of Ryu Kyu Kobudo,Tesshinkan call it Chiken shita haku no sai.We have an eku kata called Tsuken suna kake no eku,it helps to lessen confusion by calling the sai kata Chiken.My instructors do not permitt video taping of our forms,it has caused problems with people missrepresenting our organization without proper correction.The kata is available on video through the Okinawa Rengokai on the world championship videos. I also have trained many years in Motobu ha shito ryu,maybe we can get together someday to compare kata.