White Warlock

As did you.

Thus creating their 'version' of truth. Yet, even their presentation may not provide the truth for others, and thus be incomplete. There are plenty of thoughts to consider here. One is, the style as originally presented by the founder... was it incomplete to him? Had he entered a conflict or an MMA competition, would he have fared well? In many persons' opinions, the founder of many of these systems would have wiped the floor with the competitors of today... but we'll never really know, because these founders have since passed away. What we do know, is that the system has since been passed down a few generations, taught by persons with their own perceptions, and their own views of what works better. They may emphasize one part or another. Indeed, Gracie ju-jitsu is actually judo, with a heavier emphasis on groundwork. Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't necessarily agree that a pure system, whatever that is, is not very useful. Indeed, you take what others have learned, and you extrapolate. You absorb and you merge with your own knowledge, to come to an understanding that may be far more encompassing had you 'not' studied a pure style. Part of the problem nowadays, is that people learn piecemeal. They don't capture the essence of any particular style, and instead look for a bag of tricks each system may provide. This superficial approach to study fails to grasp the insights presented in these various 'pure' styles. These styles were devised by people that, at the time, presented groundbreaking concepts. It is these concepts that are often lost to the superficial student. And that is not the founders' fault, as it is the instructors' fault. You cannot honestly condemn a 'pure' system, or even a 'mixed' system, merely by pointing at the instructor, second or third generation removed. If you study directly with the founder, and you find the style/system lacking... it is either because you are not grasping what is being presented, or it is lacking. However, if the founder of that system can toss you about like a rag doll, without your ability to counter or gain any discernable advantage... i would lean towards the former. Give it more time, grasp the concepts being presented... master the techniques. If you look at the UFC, many competitors are 'young' and not as knowledgeable in the arts as their elders and the founders of the various systems they purport to have mastered. Also, those little info bars provide 'soundbites' for the salivating masses that cannot tell the difference between tae kwon do and freestyle wrestling. They indicate the 'dominant' system of that practitioner, like that one guy who was a brown belt in tae kwon do, and made up his own style called something "Sun Do" just so he could compete in the UFC. Really... there's no truth there. Understood

The mistake of beginners, and intermediates, is to assume free-for-alls are going to teach you something. More than likely, you will become injured, and lose plenty of time for training as you heal. The techniques in many grappling forms, especially judo, are just on the verge of committing serious and permanent damage. If you try to sweep, and your effort is too downward, or the other person's leg is too set, you can dislocate his knee. This causes permanent injury, and there are plenty more techniques/actions that can be committed incorrectly by the inexperienced practitioner... because they don't know what could happen if done wrong, or don't know what to 'feel.' A qualified instructor, maintaining strong vigil in your actions and respected by both participants, is about the only way i would say to go into some form of full-contact activity. If he says, "stop!" then you better do it. Why? Because his experience tells him what your lack-of does not. Something is about to break.

Joe2002 has a point here gentlemen. It is the braggart in some, especially untrained thugs or amateur boxer-types (often, synonymous), to talk openly, and often, about their acts of illegal battery. Those taught well in the arts, do not brag, and thus their 'conquests' are not sung in every bar... or spirited by their buddies. As well, it is important to remember that those who win many street fights, are 'looking' for opponents they know they can beat. Those who have built up a reputation as a street fighter, have to maintain that reputation. Thus, if they encounter someone they cannot beat, or that may cause them to lose, they don't even go there. They buddy-up, or talk it out. In most cases, they can avoid confrontation with 'well-trained' martial artists, because these types of artists... don't want to fight in the first place. The reputation of kicking people's butts in the street is the reputation of a 'thug,' a criminal. That is generally not something a martial artists wants to be identified with. You know , I am sick of the get away thing . I know a lot of you would disagree with my statement , however , we train in martial arts to defend our selves , if I am to get away on each confrontation , I would train as a runner We train in the martial arts to 'understand' violence and conflict, as a means to better understand a fundamental characteristic of mankind, and also we study it to better grasp body mechanics and biological dynamics, not to merely as a utility to defend ourselves. But, even if such were the case, running IS a means of defense that should not be dismissed merely because one's ego has been inflated by the color of one's belt. And while maintaining honor is an important thing, choosing when and where to battle is a 'wise' thing. One must always consider whether honor is being confused with 'pride.' Agreed. Conditioning.

Umm, you missed my post earlier Goju.... Hong Kong.

A knock on your teacher. A teacher that does not teach fully, is denying you the knowledge you need to obtain mastery. Either this denial is intentional or unintentional. Either this denial is due to having the knowledge and not perceiving you, or others, are ready to learn such, or this denial is due to your teacher not being able to teach such. If he is not able to teach you this, it is either because he has not grasped what exactly he does, or he simply cannot do it and doesn't therefore know. In any event, the issue here is that you are not obtaining the knowledge you seek from your teacher. My recommend is to be direct, confront your teacher (whom you've been studying with for 2 years) and ask him to teach you what you seek. If he refuses, ask why. If he states you are not ready, ask him to clarify what 'ready' is. It may be that he wishes you to obtain a particular understanding before such things are presented. More likely, after 2 years, if he is not teaching you, he never will, for any one of the reasons noted above. In such a case, it is likely better to seek a different teacher. As to asking assistance here in this forum, people can only direct you to other teachers... either online (via video/pics/text), or in your area. The only true means to learn what you are seeking, is direct training. Good luck

In regards to the question posed, "are there any true styles?" They are all true. What needs to be considered, is the truth that you're looking for. If your truth is in obtaining flashy moves so you can enhance your movie career, than many systems exist out there that will do just that. If your truth is to sell a product, and learn the material that is the product, as quickly as possible, than there are truths out there in 'some' styles. Essentially, truth is dependent upon you. I find many aspects of aikido to be true, but not all aspects. I find many aspects of bjj to be true, but not all aspects. That is because, my truth doesn't mesh with any one particular existing style. Why? Two things: One is, every style was created by 'someone.' What they created was based on their perception of truth, and their exposure to knowledge. Two is, i have my own perception of truth, based on my exposure to knowledge that differs, slightly or en grande, from that of others. It is my firm belief (that although capable of changing is still well affirmed), what is necessary to understand... is the goal is not obtainment of mastery of any particular style, but finding your path. If your path is in absorbing the path of another, than be at peace with it. If, on the other hand, your path is to absorb the paths of many others, and in that process obtain a better understanding of your own path, than be at peace with that. And, if neither are of those cases, and you feel making your own path, based on nothing, is your path, be at peace with that. But, it needs to be understood, being at peace... means also being true to yourself. And this comes full circle with the topic... that of 'true' styles. Be well

hehe

Most of what was demonstrated is standard judo and wrestling takedowns. Some thoughts. Seems he's practiced a bit with his uke, for those demonstrations. His uke performed weak attacks, no defenses, poor posture and stances, and basically 'cooperated.' That is the idea behind demonstrations though, to impress people with how good it 'can' be, if all things were perfect. Real life isn't perfect and many of those techniques/actions could have encountered some serious difficulties. Many of the ones he demonstrated, required a 'space' between him and the opponent. Many strong grapplers don't provide that space. There are escapes and reversals available for most every technique he presented, especially with that presentation, where gaps were evident, shoots were too 'head forward,' and 'demo pauses' were noted. As a whole, i found it nice to see someone show what 'takedowns' can do, and that a fight can effectively be decided during a takedown, rather than at a full-standup, or 'during' groundwork. It is one of the phases in a confrontation, and one that should not merely be considered transitory.

so how were they able to make all these old school kung-fu movies in china throught the years previous to the 80's?Hong Kong And yes mantis, it wasn't a good joke... and yes, you are wrong about them being dancers.

As any government, the goal is self-preservation. Both the study of war arts and religions are threats to a government's dominance and longevity. May i recommend studying this for an insight into China, as it was, and as the base for its obstacles to change into free enterprise. http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/

And do those fees go down if you already have the equipment, or you bought it somewhere else?

Umm, you guys? I suppose i'm a tad frustrated with your habit of posing straw men. I, for one, was not mentioning anything about the study of groundfighting techniques without 'resistance.' In truth, i saw nobody else state such either. I gather you're trying to win an argument, rather than have a discussion. That being the case, i bow out.

For lunch, or as an appetizer? i've heard of Kentucky cannibals, just didn't believe the rumors till now

Agree with Karate25 here. If you make it a big deal, so will your students. If you don't, neither will they. You set the example. Don't let it bother you and it won't bother them. They are your students, not hers. If she wishes to teach your students, then, if you feel it necessary, talk to her in private and tell her you do not want her teaching your students, as she is not 'ready' to teach. No need to insult her. In fact, in Judo, you are required to obtain a 3rd degree black belt, a teacher rank (you can have a 3rd degree black belt that is not a teacher rank), before you are allowed to teach 'officially' as a representative of the Kodokan. Although it is likely not the same for your school, it is nonetheless something to consider. I don't know where you are located, but i gather it is in the U.S. If so, then let me say this very clearly. It is illegal for anyone to 'prevent' you from opening up your own school in the same town. Monopolies are illegal, per the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. If anyone were to take any actions against you, they could very well serve time in prison, as well as pay a hefty penalty.

Yes, i indicated such in my post, including providing the father's website, and your welcome. Unfortunately, neither site provides any resources to validate or invalidate anything... nor do they provide insight into the specifics of the systems. The NAPMA site, of which he is affiliated with, has a broken search utility and i'm not inclined to download the entire site just so i can search it locally. I doubt it would provide any insight into Mr. Mason or the system of che-lu anyway. I'll be honest. I have no interest in any 'homegrown' system that does not provide details as to what it entails. I'm not located in Kentucky, so i can't verily walk over there and go for a free class, assuming he even provides such. It would be nice to have more information on this, as well as information on whether any of his graduates teach in places other than Kentucky. Also, it might be nice if he put a tad more effort into his website. hehe... If anyone in Frankfort, Kentucky, who is not a member of Mr. Mason's school, is willing to visit it and give some insight... i'm sure at least some of us would be appreciative.

np. i did take a cursory look at the other one just now. Their organization affiliation is Saskatchewan GTF, which stands for Global Tae kwon do Federation, and is a regional federation directly affiliiated with the international federation of the same name. GTF, international, was founded in 1990, with grandmaster Park Jung Tae as their federation president. He died semi-recently, and the federation is in disarray. But, so are most of the others, so no real issue there. Their associations are legitimate. GTF is not a strong federation. In fact, it's rather loose in its structure. They do have regional and international events though. I can't say yay or nay on this one. TKD's politics has never been an area i spent much time with. Indeed, i've learned more about their stuff in the last few weeks than in all my years, from one source. MasterH, any thoughts?

Umm, yes... it was a joke. An April Fools joke, which you fell for because you didn't read the comments following the initial article.

Yep, and such a format would inevitably undermine the quality of instruction, with 'power' and 'strength' being touted as superior to 'technique' and 'conditioning.' In time, such an approach could... in fact would... erode the system, turning it into a "good ol' boy's" 'tough' guy academy.

Didn't make a difference. Even after my sister asked me to look into it, even after i presented that information, my sister enrolled her son in that guy's class, and five months later had to weasel out of the contract that had her bootstrapped to the school, with extra costs left and right. They get away with it, because consumers don't care.

Okay, the first one... not wing chun. The few photographs they present of those being stated as practicing wing chun, were not. The hand actions were too distant, the hips and leg positions entirely incorrect. Looking at the other photos, i would say this is a low-grade wushu school 'maybe' pushing for 'forms' tournament wins and for demos to parents. I was not impressed, and actually somewhat dismayed. I won't go into the specifics, but i did the courtesy of looking up what credentials i could find on the instructor, and the instructor's instructor (Lewadny), as well as timelines. It does mesh, but leaves this school's owner with maybe 3 to 5 years of formal training to obtain level 10 (a rank, as i recall, penned by William Cheung). More to the point, it is indicated he was given this rank 'prior' to his instructor obtaining that rank, or at least allegedly obtaining that rank, in 87'. His instructor's background is Shotokan as a base, woo dip, then later hung gar, and even later, wing chun. At the time of instruction being argued, Lewadny learned 'modified' wing chun, as he calls it, from a guy who i and others have been unable to validate, called Simon Fung (nothing whatsoever on this guy... which doesn't jive, given WC's obsession on keeping the books straight). Anyhow, Lewadny left Canada for Australia in 86' and 'allegedly' obtained level 10 from William Cheung in 10 months. This is a process that normally takes a minimum of 4 years. And, considering what i know of William Cheung, it is unlikely he would have given such rank without due cause... so either it's not true, or Lewadny was incredibly exceptional. Common sense leans towards the former. Adding to this, Lewadny's proponents claim that Lewadny was, at one time, head of all of North America TWC, but such claims are contraindicated by reputable sources (Phil Redmond, for one, who runs the TWC academy in Michigan, co-runs the East Coast TWC, and is well respected). For what i saw of the photos there, and of my education in wing chun, i would say... nope, not wing chun, but what looks to be some home-study rendition of it. Lewadny may very well, in fact, be a talented wing chun practitioner... but at the time this particular instructor was taught, it doesn't seem as if he had 'proper' training and thus provided substandard, and incorrect, wing chun training to the owner of this school. I did not do any homework on the other school, and thus cannot provide insight there.

Umm, i'm with Master H and tkdBill here... mutiny is not the answer, primarily because of this: KempoTiger, in your school the BBs 'appointed' the lead. In his club, the old instructor 'appointed' the lead. A huge difference that will very likely cause a blow-up if a mutiny is attempted. All-in-all, you will show something 'far worse' to your students by acting this way. No, here are my opinions. It is very possible that the lead instructor wasn't aware of all the other instructors feelings on this, and may very well not have been paying attention to whether this woman was qualified to obtain a BB. Granted, this is not good, and he should be ashamed of himself (which is far different than others posing 'guilt' on him). However, it is also very possible that this woman recognized the resistance by the other BBs and decided to 'bypass' them, going instead to the lead instructor and getting him, through fanciful manueverings, to authorize her obtaining a belt. All the while, he could have been clueless of the game she played, and may very well still be clueless. It might be the most prudent route to have a 'meeting' with the other instructors, including the lead instructor. The goal here should not be to 'win' or 'lose,' but to find a solution to this dilemna. If, indeed, the solution is for you and others to make their own club, disassociated from this lead instructor, then so be it... but i think the better solution would be to keep an open mind and discuss it at an open meeting with the lead and the other BBs... outside of the dojo. Within the dojo, the lead has all the authority. You cannot effectively 'communicate' your concerns on an issue without feeling as if he may pull out the ugly stick of social embarrassment. In a meeting outside of the dojo, things can be handled without such inappropriate utilities. Now, if that meeting does not provide an amenable solution for the 'majority' of the instructors, then i think it is warranted that you bring this issue up to the old instructor... in the same manner you did with the lead instructor. I.e., you have another meeting, with all the instructors, the lead instructor, and the old instructor. If this doesn't provide resolution, then do the healthy thing, and move on. The arts are to grow with, not to become a wound in the qualitative state of your environment. Find, or create, an environment that fosters, rather than festers.

seems to show prejudice to women, handicapped and elderly, giving belts based on being tough, vibrant and young, as well as skilled. Not sure i entirely agree with this. in fact, i know i don't.

lol

Hehe, me. Just look at how i influence the readers here.