Sasori_Te

I think commercial schools could work in theory. i think GrrrArg is right. You need to have quality students, which also means that you need to be in an area large enough to provide enough quality students for you to survive. You have to recruit correctly too. I see a lot of the problem coming from the methods that the owners use to get potential students through the door. It's a bit of a vicious circle. Although the owner is ultimately responsible for the students that he chooses to teach. Money sometimes overrides better judgement. Valithor you also present an excellent point. Our society in general does tend to put money and financial success ahead of almost everything else.

I think just as in your group martial arts training, the best thing you can do is step back and evaluate what you're being taught. If you don't think it's any good or worth the money it would be better to find somewhere else to train.

I don't believe it's a money grab. Some students just don't learn the same way as other students and one on one teaching can be invaluable to their progress. I pay for private lessons with my instructors as often as I can. You have an opportunity to pick their brains to a degree that would be impossible in a regular dojo session. I say take advantage of it when you can. Although, unfortunately, I'm sure in some of the belt factories that pass for schools it is a "money grab".

Honestly, after I got my first shodan I felt the same way you do about kata. After I changed styles and did a LOT of research into various apects of martial arts I learned that kata was key to everything. It's easy to have the viewpoint you have if you look at kata as a blueprint for a fight. It is not that. Each kata contains techniques unique to the master who introduced it. Kata is not a fixed and immutable thing. The form is fixed but the variations are as limitless as the skill, knowledge and imagination of the practitioner performing it. I also believe that not only do you not have karate without kata but you don't have martial systems without kata. The Chinese use kata, the Japanese and Okinawans use kata, the Koreans use kata. Kata has been in use for more than 2,000 years and has passed Asian martial arts along to us. Think on this. Where would martial arts be today without kata?

I think your instructor was very wise to get out of that situation. Have you ever heard of Ray Hughes? I had a chance to meet and train with him in Phoenix, AZ. He's a relly nice guy. He's one of the top American representatives in one of the Wado organizations. I don't know which one as I try to stay away from big martial arts organizations.

I do believe at some point in your training you should have practice dealing with full force kicks. 2nd or 3rd kyu is a reasonable time frame. If you can't deal with a full force kick coming at you by then training needs to be re-evaluated.

as with everyhting else in karate, don't give up on it because you don't think you're good at it. And especially with Sanchin, don't compare yourself to someone else. Keep practicing, it will fall into place. Does he test the conditioning from Sanchin on the advanced belts? Sanchin is the Okinawan way of teaching compression breathing for fighting. I prefer the Tai Chi Chuan method my friends instructor uses more than Sanchin. But Sanchin is a part of my katas and I stick with it as it has other things to offer as well.

I uses a makiwara for my hands and a heavy bag for my feet. Not so much to harden and callous them as to stay used to making contact with an object using a fair amount of power.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but there's only one owner for that particular school. I was refering to 3 schools that I know of personally that are nearly identical in method. The instructor that I was speaking specifically about does have a specific extenuating circumstance that I won't go into out of respect for his privacy. But that in and of itself doesn't release him from his responsibiities to his students.

Why do you hate doing Sanchin alanseijas?

I think the best way to look at it, at least for me is, kata offers different things at different levels of skill and understanding. In the beginning kata offers balance, basic blocks and strikes, concentration and begins the visualization process. Later kata offers advanced movement as you flow throw stances, advanced techniques as your visualization of the opponent becomes clearer. This is a never ending process. as long as you understand the basics of the kata and have good visualization skills there is always something to be learned from kata. IMHO of course.

Kempocos the main culprit that I'm speaking of certainly knows that he's putting out inferior material from his school. He teaches one or two classes but that's it. He's more interested in getting quality training for himself. I always requested training from him personally for which he normally charges $80.00 per hour (private rate). At the time I was unfortunate enough to be in his region for a style that I was learning and he was the only authority for nearly 1000 miles that provided grading. The Grandmaster said I should do it that way. Regardless, he had all of his instructors snowed as to what type of instructor he was by being an excellent student to them. They only saw that side of him. And let's face it. You just don't go to a Grandmaster and tell them that their favorite student is a money hungry schemer. I barely broached the subject and was handed my hat. Granted I'm not quite so involved with that organization any more.

Very well said Sauzin. Always good to get a fresh approach.

To Bow or not to bow .... that is the question. *L* Sorry couldn't help myself.

Congratulations on your test. My first Shodan Test took somewhere between 4 and 5 hours as well. I believe part of the idea is to help you prepare for how your body feels after the adrenal dump has occurred and you feel like you've been fighting forever. I don't really agree with that line of thinking though. I don't know if you can be prepared for that feeling. Maybe with adrenal stress training. I don't know much about that training however. Rambling again ...Sorry

Anyone know how to delete a double post?

I'm not asking you to take off your belt. I just personally believe that "true" karateka should not have a problem with it. That's my opinion and mine alone. We all have the right to our opinions don't we? That's why we're here. To discuss our differences and give our opinions. My opinion isn't any more or less important than yours. If you dislike my opinion then don't respond to it. Ignore it.

You contradict yourself Black Dragon. You would readily accept the humility of a white belt as one should, but you won't wear one? That doesn't sound like humility to me. Forgive my saying so, but it sounds like arrogance. But that's my opinion. A true black belt doesn't have to wear one to be one. It will show in your attitude as well as your respect for others. Again, just my opinion.

I was asked to write a post on this topic. I have several friends and acquaintences who have commercial schools. They sell EVERYTHING. Books, equipment, weapons, bags, patches, you name it. The prices for their classes are outrageous, $100.00 per month on average for a single class offering (they usually teach several different classes i.e.. weapons, sparring, kickboxing, karate aerobics etc...). The classes are usually large and are taught by senior students who don't have near the understanding of the style as the Owner. It's much easier to see this if you know the owner and have several years of training yourself. The training then becomes inferior. The owners know this and are usually regretful of it but, it's all about the money. The owners can't possibly teach enough of the classes themselves and still find time for a life afterwards. This is the way they make their living and the money unfortunately has to come first. You can't really blame them. All of the folks I know have families to feed. What I find odd is that this is generally acceptable in our money driven society. We pay for something and expect a certain return for our payment. The more we pay the more we expect for the money with a minimum of effort. This cycle drags the class down and eventually makes an art into a showy tournament style (I'm sure we've all seen these). This post was in responce to a request so I'm not sure what sort of replies I'll receive.

I think ninjanurse and cross are correct here. The basics are not always what they seem to be. You can have many many techniques that derive themselves from the proper application of a basic technique. But, you have to have the proper basic technique down and understand that technique before you can extrapolate other techniques from it. This is why kata is designed to look so very basic in most instances. It's like cross said, if you want to become a carpenter, you have to put tools in your tool box and learn how to use them.

I've trained with Master Jiro Shiroma in Phoenix. He has changed his entire opinion of what he thought martial arts should be. He's started teaching kick boxing and Thai boxing in his classes along with Brazilian Jujitsu. But you know what? He still does the Shorin Ryu katas. He still gets his inspiration there. At least he did the last time I was there about a year ago.

Yet another excellent answer ninjanurse. You must be training for a while now.

Exactly ninjanurse. A slight turn is all that is required. This helps put the power of the support/ push leg into the kick.

I will say that there are a lot of practitioners that I know, including myself, that are going back and exploring the Chinese influence on their art. It is very interesting learning the Chinese beliefs and methods. It also will give you a hint of some of the things that may have been lost from your art over time. Or maybe they were never a part of it anyway but stand taking a look at on their own merits. I.E. pressure point techniques, chin na and chi gung to name but a few. Good luck and happy hunting.

To further the history lesson, if I recall correctly, karate was born on Okinawa in the 1600's. It was a mix of Southern Chinese White Crane Gung Fu and the local fighting style on Okinawa called Okinawa Te. This was then broken down into 3 more distinct styles called by the names of the towns in which they were taught. Shuri Te, Naha Te and Tomari Te. Then comes Shorin Ryu and Shorei Ryu. Funakoshi travels to Japan and because of Japanese politics the kanji for karate was changed from meaning China Hand to Empty Hand. The Okinawan katas were modified for teaching in the Japanese school system and Shotokan was born. There is an excellent book called "Okinawa Island Of Karate" By George W. Alexander. check it out. This is greatly simplified because I don't remember the exact dates but it's better to find out for yourself. You will appreciate your art more that way.