Shorin Ryuu

Heh, I thought the answer would be "Only after touching the moon in the lake" I did some interesting reading for a project in school about how zen buddhism influenced Japanese society, specifically the samurai...good stuff... Q: What is Buddha? A: This flax weighs three chin... gotta love it...

Here's something that I posted on another forum, but is related to this topic: This is something my karate instructor put in our manual. He's a big history buff, martial arts history especially, has done extensive research and these are his words (of that I am 80% sure...) In Japanese and Okinawan society, there is a very strict social class structure. It is similar to America's "upper class", "middle class", and "lower class". In Japan, in the early 1900's, this social class structure was as strong then as it still is today. Karate was just beginning to be taught on mainland Japan even though it had been thriving on Okinawa for many years. Due to this social structure, you had all three classes training together. Some upper class students felt they deserved better treatment than the middle and lower classes. Funakoshi, Gichin, founder of Shotokan Karate sensed this problem from the very start. He felt that a uniform was necessary in order to make everyone equal in the dojo. The karategi is a combination of the hakama and the judogi (already being used by Jigoro Kano’s Kodokan at this time). Traditionally, white was the only color and it was used to signify purity and also served to remove the class distinction in the dojo. Prior to this inclination, traditionally Chinese and Okinawan martial arts teachers and students were only given teaching certificates from their instructors at the time they had acquired enough knowledge to begin teaching themselves. This was the only traditional means of promotion. Here in America, the concept of equality and unification among fellow karateka has somewhat been discarded. Practitioners have traded the pure white uniform for gis that have "stars and stripes" as well as many other colors and styles. In some classes, the gi top is left out in favor of T-shirts. One of the most frequently asked questions at dojo in this country is, “How does your "belt system" go?” By this, the person is asking how one shows levels of achievement in their dojo. Of course, any information not known and any techniques learned is an achievement, but for some people, it is necessary to have visual proof of achievement. For both Eastern and Western cultures alike, the obi was introduced to the martial arts to award the practitioner with rank certification. Before an explanation of rank certification is given, it is necessary to discuss the history behind the obi. The obi is also a relatively new addition to the martial arts. In the beginning, there were no rank certifications, only titles. In China, one was considered a master, instructor, or student. On Okinawa, the titles of Renshi (trainer), Kyoshi (teacher), and Hanshi (Instructor of teachers) were the only certifications awarded. The man credited with inventing the Dan/Kyu System was Kano, Jigoro, who also was the founder of Judo. Judo has been practiced on Okinawa since the 1920's. Funakoshi, Gichin, had met Dr. Kano while in Japan. Funakoshi, himself a teacher and a very educated man, was very impressed with Dr. Kano and decided to use the Dan/Kyu system in his teaching and awarding of rank certification. In 1924, Funakoshi awarded seven men with karate's first Black Belt Dan. In 1937, Miyagi, Chojun, founder of Okinawa Goju Ryu, was the first karate expert to be awarded the title of Kyoshi. The next year, the Butoku Kai (butoku translates into "martial virtue") called for a meeting to discuss the standards for awarding rank certification. By the 1940's & 50's, anyone receiving a menjo (rank certification) had to have a member of the Butoku Kai sign the certificate recognizing his achievement. What this meant was any certifications issued were done so by an individual or organization that had set standards that were recognized by similar prestigious individuals or organizations. The Dan/Kyu System did not take hold on Okinawa until 1956, when Chibana, Chosin formed the Okinawa Karate Association. Chibana, Chosin is the first Okinawan to name his type of karate shorin-ryu and was the first president of the Okinawa Karate Association. Chibana and a man named Toyama, Kanken were the only ones recognized by the Japanese Ministry of Education to grant rank certification no matter what style of karate one was studying. In 1964, the Federation of All Japan Karate-do Organizations (FAJKO) was formed as the governing body for all karate, and by 1971, a standard system for issuing rank certification was adopted. This system is still in use today. The original colors used for the obis were white, brown, and black, but today, especially here in the United States a rainbow of colors have blossomed. This sprang from the American need to see all levels of achievement, no matter how minor. In this dojo, the colors used are those issued by the hombu dojo in Naha of the Kobayashi Shoinkan Shorin-Ryu karate system listed below. Students are taught that the obi does not make the difference in the student. Wearing a black obi does not make one all knowing or make their karate better, in fact, the wearer of the rank of Shodan (1st degree black belt) is frequently characterized as one who has “mastered” the basics. In the end, it's skill and character that earns rank and turns the student into a disciplined karate practitioner. My instructor says he longs for the days when there were only the white, brown, and black belts...and he says that all this commercialization makes him sad (he doesn't charge us for our tests and certificates...he doesn't even get paid to teach us).

Yay! Someone who sees things in the same way that I do!!!

Here's something I've found on it...take its for what its worth. I've actually heard other interpretations than this as well, such as "sanchin" means three points (i.e. pressure points that you hit with the kata) or naihanchi means (the points of han chi, the creator of the kata) etc. This is what people say. Of course if I had the original Chinese characters for them, I could probably translate them...oh well, I don't. Traditional Okinawan kata Shuri-Te (Shorin school) Ananko or Ananku – meaning “the light from the south” (distinctive use of Zenkutsu-dachi throughout most of the kata) (21 movements) Chinto or Gankaku – meaning “crane on a rock” or “fighting to the east” Gojushiho or Useishi – Amended Royal Okinawan Folk Dance meaning “54 steps” or “the phoenix” Jitte or Jutte – meaning “ten hands” or “temple hands” (belonging traditionally to the Shorei not Shorin schools, known by its bold stances and heavy movements). Jion or Jion Ji – meaning “temple sound” - named after a Buddhist temple in China Kusanku or Kanku/Kwanku meaning “viewing the sky” Naihanchi/Naifanchi or Tekki meaning “horse riding” Nijushiho or Neiseishi – meaning “24 steps” Passai/Patsai or Bassai – meaning “to storm or penetrate a fortress” Pinan or Heian – meaning “the way of peace” – literally “great peace” Sansu – created by Shimabuku for Isshin-Ryu Sesan – meaning “13 hands” or “half-moon” Sochin – meaning “the grand prize” Unsu – meaning “cloud hands” Naha-Te (Shorei school) Kururumfa – meaning “seventeen” or “holding your ground” Pechurin or Suparinpi – meaning “the final 108 hands” Saipha or Saifa – meaning “the final breaking point” Sanchin – meaning “three battles” (used in Isshin-Ryu) Sanseryu – meaning “36 hands” Seipai – meaning “18 hands” Seienchin or Seiunchin – meaning “lull in the storm” or “storm within the calm” (used in Isshin-Ryu) Shisoochin – meaning “fighting four monkeys” Tensho – meaning change of grips” or “rotating palms” Tomari-Te (combined into Shorin and Shorei) Rohai or Meikyo – meaning “vision of a white heron” Wanduan – named after Okinawan king Wankuan/Wankan or Matsukaze – meaning “the king’s crown” or “pine tree wind” Wanshu or Enpi – named after Chinese envoy who came to Okinawa in 1683 (Later, the following kata were added by the Oyadomari family lineage: Naihanchi Shodan, Naihanchi Nidan, Passai, Kusanku Sho, Kusanku Dai)

Just a comment that doesn't really advocate either but addresses an issue that comes up. I've seen that if you really beat up one guy in a group, a lot of times, the other guys will turn tail or sorta back off if you leave a good impression. Of course, this may also make them really angry and want to beat you up even more...

I'm not sure if the last post was in response to mine, but just to clear up matters, I was saying it is possible to dictate the pace of combat without being aggressive. Emotionally, I don't feel aggressive, but as I said in my previous post, that doesn't stop me from creating openings in my opponent and attacking rather than being passive and only counter-attacking. This is more of an ego post...I just wanted to let people know that got the wrong impression that I am not necessarily only a counter-attack kind of fighter.

I suppose not...I have a really huge post on the history of the belt system in the Martial Arts and Politics system that breaks down its history from conception to present, if anyone is interested... Its under the Belts are just a scam!!!! Post.

I think Bruce Lee said it best when he said "emotional content" and not anger. Its all a matter of getting very serious, but not angry or too serious. Sometimes adrenaline may help a person overcome their natural or self-imposed barriers, but I for one try to do my best pushing those limits in the first place rather than relying on adrenaline. I must admit that I do find fighting exciting and enjoyable (this doesn't mean I go out and pick fights, it means I enjoy practicing with others as close to the real thing as it gets), but I don't lose my head. During my unarmed combat classes at my academy I would score real high for technique, innovation, and everything else, but only do so-so on aggression (yes, that was a grading criteria...) because I was calm and collected (but still very persistent) as I defeated my opponents. This didn't mean I was passive or reactive, in fact, I usually created opportunities to attack my opponent, it just meant that other than enjoyment and a little excitement, I didn't feel anything. Discipline and emotion control may be the best way to "train" yourself to turning on and off emotions, if this is the method you prefer. Scoff if you wish, but I find meditation helpful.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and think that what people are trying to say that they are skeptical, and rightly so. I for one am very skeptical. Unless this kid is some "golden child" I don't think they deserve a black belt. This doesn't mean that I expect more from a 8-year-old black belt, its that I expect the same as I would a 20-year-old shodan, or a 40-year-old shodan...you get the picture. Obviously the indignance of people who see an 8-year-old black belt is the same as the indignance when we see a McDojo. The only thing different here is age, because it is so unlikely that a person at that age would have the maturity to be a black belt. The reason why this is a factor is because regardless of what side an art falls under in the bujutsu/budo division, there is an additional mental component to martial arts, otherwise it would simply be just fighting. A black belt (and we have all heard and understand the saying that a shodan is just the beginning) implies that there is that maturity and mental capability there. At the age of 8, children accept what is taught to them without true critical thinking (although in my experience, this is not true at the age of 5 when everything is "Why?" ). In other words, the individual's mind has not fully matured and gathered enough experience in the world. Again, regardless of this individual case, people are just indignant when they see someone not deserving of a black belt get a black belt. What determines what someone needs to get a black belt? Unfortunately, in today's state of the martial arts, it is almost personal opinion. Most of us just have a very high standard that the kid must meet. They feel that performing the techniques "reasonably well" is simply not good enough. If a shodan is someone who has mastered the basics, then this interpretation leaves much room to be skeptical in this case. If there is dissension over the standard, and I'm sure there always will be, then this debate will always continue.

Hehe, Kirves, that last post of mine wasn't directed at you...Just to clarify though... I was referring to the fact that he was criticizing the "bujutsu-ness of the technique" but was doing this to criticize its "budo-ness". Thats kinda worded strangely, but I didn't know how else to put it. (In other words, we are in agreement )

Hey, easy there...If you wanna talk about imitations...listen what Funakoshi, the father of Japanese karate, had to say himself about Japanese Karate... "Accordingly, even fewer realize that karate in Tokyo today is almost completely different in form from what was earlier practiced in Okinawa. A few years ago I took my students to the Butoku-den in Kyoto to participate in a dedicatory martial arts demonstration...when it came time for their demonstrations, I was even more surprised for their so-called karate was unlike karate. Deeply embarrassed, I felt I should apologize to the other observers. It was the karate that I, who have devoted many years in the art, could not recognize as such." ~Gichin Funakoshi 1943 Many people choose Japanese karate like Shotokan to practise their budo. I personally do not like Shotokan for I perceive it to be a "watered down" martial art. Many of its techniques are less effective than they could be. However, like you said, Shotokan's purpose is budo, not bujutsu, and as long as it is taken for such, there is no problem. Budo doesn't worry as much about the effectiveness of the techniques in combat as it does perfecting the individual. Therefore, why bash the techniques of TKD or TSD when others can just as easily bash yours using a -jutsu analysis? That is what you have been doing. You criticized a person's bujutsu techniques and thus claimed that they weren't budo. Apples and oranges, you can't do that...You don't bash people for attaining peace of mind through flower arranging or tea ceremony, do you? For that matter, learning just iaido, which has obvious combative ancestery, isn't the most practical thing to learn nowadays in terms of pure self-defense, but nobody bashes that, do they? If TKD or TSD works for them in that respect, then why not let it go? I don't mean to uneccessarily bash Shotokan in this post, that wasn't my intent. The purpose of this was to realize that if your focus is budo then the technical things aren't as important. If you wanted to criticize bujutsu then be ready to face criticism yourself. EDIT: Sorry for digressing from the main topic. I didn't mean this post to sound as hostile as it does, I in fact originally meant it as a "calm down" post...but I guess this happens...

I think this is because when many people make a fist, they fully turn it 90 degrees. If you turn it 45 degrees, the fist and the open hand will be equally difficult to bend. Since I don't feel like repeating all the reasons for this again, if you are interested, look at the 3/4 turn punch posting in the strategies and tactics section

I usually do karate about 2 1/2 - 3 hours a day, about 4-6 times a week. This does cut into my school though, and with an average of about 22 credit hours per semester for the past couple of years, it simply is a matter of priority I guess. I'm lucky now because as a college student, I really don't have to worry about taking care of a family right now.

I didn't start karate because of friends, but I did have two friends join because I did. Sadly, they did not last a year. I guess it just wasn't for them.

Well, since this discussion may or may not have relevance to martial arts, I put it in the general chat section. I was just curious as to why people chose the avatars they did, whether it just "looked cool" or there is something deeper. Mine (as my handle is as well) is a play on words. Shorin Ryuu is the style of karate I take, with Ryuu being the technically correct way to romanize the Japanese word meaning style or school. But, since everyone says Ryu (just like everyone says do, not dou or Tokyo, not Toukyou) it is accepted as the standard English way of writing it. Ryuu can also mean dragon, so it could be Shorin Style or Shorin Dragon. My avatar is just the characters Shorin Ryuu (the style) written left to right and Shorin Ryuu (the dragon) written top to bottom. As far as inspiration goes, I just thought that dragons are cool...doesn't everybody?

I think the tournament ones tend to be more flashy or at least lighter (like aluminum or glow in the dark...stuff...). The tapered end is just taking advantage of a smaller surface area for thrust techniques whereas non-tapered is heavier for training is one of the explanations I have been given. It might also have something to do with having more weight in the center as well, but that is just conjecture on my part. In the end, it might just boil down to personal preference nowadays.

He might be one of those "junior" blackbelts. I don't know too much about them, but it supposed to be equivalent to like adult 7th kyu or something like that and they have to do a whole lot more to get a "real" black belt. Or then again...the world is a funny place...

Hehe, yeah, after about 2 minutes of posting that, I realized as much and edited it right after . Oh well, these things happen...

For a mild explanation of the origin of the name karate-do, look at my post in the karate section entitled "Chinese Hand Arts vs Empty Hand Way" http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2487 I think that is how you link to it... Edit:I realize now that you may have been referring to the vagueness of the credential, not the actual name itself. But if you were talking about karate-do...hope it helps.

Welcome to the forums. There's something here for everyone. Of course, you do have to read all of my page long replies to simple questions. Muahahahahaha. . .

I'm going to have to say that males are physically more adept at fighting simply due to anatomy. Now before everybody jumps all over me, please listen to what I have to say and read all of my post before criticizing. This is a look at facts without trying to accuse either gender of being the lesser gender. In a majority of cases, males are stronger than females and can take a lot more hits than they can. Yes, I understand, there is always the case of so and so who is stronger than a lot of guys or this girl beat that guy, etc. Thats okay, but as a general rule, guys are simply physically superior to females in this aspect. As one who has experience with the military, both personal and in the family, there is a reason why there are reasons for the different physical standards for males and females. I can tell you, on a long rifle and ruck run, it is usally the females that will fall towards the end of the pack. My biology professor also states that due to knee and hip position, it is more difficult for women to pivot and lunge (which is why there are many females who get injured playing tennis). In addition, there is also a tendency in males to be more aggressive in fighting situations. Again, I know there are always those exceptions out there, and that is what they are, exceptions. Whether this is explained by genetics or a constructivist social theory is irrelevant for the purposes of this current discussion, which purpose is not to discuss the roots right now. Fortunately for females, martial arts just isn't about pure strength either. And like many people say, there are always those females that train hard and overcome barriers and are just as strong, fast, and hard-hitting as many guys out there if not more. Since it isn't about pure strength, which is how you get really old martial arts masters that still clean the floor with young, energetic students, there is a chance for a balancing to occur. All this leads me to my conclusion: Men generally have an advantage over women in the physical aspect of fighting. However, just as smaller or older men are able to overcome bigger men through martial arts (whether or not the bigger man is a martial artist or not), women have this same opportunity. Thus males have an advantage over women, but this can be overcome by training. Just as a sidenote, on flexibility, I think much of the belief in female flexibility (although there is some anatomical grounding to it, I am not sure how much simply because I do not know) and the fact that females will always be more flexible is similar to this. There is a societal view (at least in America) that flexibility is somewhat unmanly and dissuades many guys from really trying to get flexible. Just take a look at male gymnasts. They are perhaps some of the strongest people pound-for-pound and are very strong just in general and go through some very intense workouts, but there are always those who snicker at them. (I think its kinda cool, actually). If you can't tell, I tend to take a constructivist critical theory look at many things (for all of you familiar with such political science terminology). Lastly, I have said on other posts, I have no problems with female martial artists because I just know that my future wife will be one.

One thing to break his grip, either go for the wrist pressure point (1/2 inch from wrist on the bone side, either side) or go for his pinky only on one hand. Also, if you can't complete a full over-the-shoulder throw, just do a half side-step and lower your center of gravity at the knees, which will enable a throw or toss much easier than over-the-shoulder as it will be more over-your-side. I don't know what this throw is called, unfortunately, only that it has a higher rate of success.

Actually, I'd have to say that George Dillman's techniques are all rather anatomically based and have nothing to do with "no touch knock outs". He does go into acupuncture and accupressure and does sometimes use Chinese terms (Like fire pressure points and metal pressure points) but I haven't ever heard of him doing that. Was that just a name you posted randomly or has he actually done that...In fact, I would say that he is one of the more scientifically-based martial masters right now...(Not to spark a debate between science and chi, I'm just saying that I have never heard of him talk about those kinds of things like the no touch knock out and i have seen several of his tapes and read several books of his). Or is there another Dillman system out there? I'm confused...sorta... Post Edit: Okay, much to my chargrin, I guess at some of his seminars, there have been many people demonstrating the "no touch" knockout. ...*sigh* Oh well, so much for that...I buy into his other stuff though, the medically based applications and kata bunkai... Post Post Edit: Now I'm legitimately curious...Does George Dillman do these "no touch" knockouts or is it just people that he has invited to his seminars and things. He may just want to avoid stepping on their toes (hopefully, in my opinion and no offense to those who believe it) or he may actually advocate it openly. I just feel that he just comes across as more medical and anatomically based. Has anyone done very in-depth studies of Dillman's practices that can answer this for me?

I think there's a guy thing that compels me to learn the sword or bokken. However, I'm going to have to stick with the bo and learn the bokken later on.

In a refreshing wave of geekiness...(for me, anyway) I listen to a lot of Japanese music, primarily anime/game soundtracks. Kanno Youko Rocks! I'm trying to think of someone else who has written music for so many genre (jazz, orchestra, and probably like 20 others) AND sounds so good and I can't think of one. I swear it helps me learn the language... Also, believe it or not, I'm a big Sublime fan as well as an Alternative music fan. Do they still call it Alternative? The other day I heard the term Modern Rock tossed around to classify it. Oh well.