Shorin Ryuu

First and fore-most, I train for self-defense. Secondly, probably for health and fitness. Since I enjoy those first two things, that adds the aspect of fun.

van Damne stopped being good after he started drinking heavily. I actually don't know how good he was in real life, but Bloodsport and Kickboxer were awesome movies, in my opinion. Most of his other ones were just terrible...

Taking an Okinawan style, I'd have to say that a lot of techniques and things are similar, since they are heavily influenced by Chinese styles. I think there is a tendency (except for the more advanced kata) to separate attack and counterattack into seperate movement (meaning one after another, regardless of how small the time is between them) while in kung-fu it looks like they just do them at the exact same time. My style doesn't really have real deep stances, except for maybe in the Chinto kata that was taught to Bushi Matsumura by a shipwrecked Chinese sailor that totally thrashed him. Matsumura was so intrigued (and maybe he had to regain some honor, too) that he tracked him down and begged him to teach him his stuff. I think Okinawan karate is supposed to emphasize a lot of pressure points and things like they do in kung-fu, but I've noticed that some schools do not really dwell on that as much. I was fortunate to have a teacher that did focus on it though. As far as soft and hard goes, most kung-fu schools are actually hard schools (so I've heard in some of my research) but some of the famous ones are soft. That being said, I've heard Shorin Ryu being described as a soft circle surrounded by hard points, so it is supposed to be a mix. I've been making an effort to make mine less hard for about the past year.

That's the heart of the problem! On Okinawa, stances were always high for practical reasons. Nobody taught low stances as they are unusable in fighting. Gichin Funakoshi taught exactly like that too and called his style Shotokan. So why do people in Shotokan now train the low stances? Because people after Gichin passed the torch, modified it so! Some people might even say it ain't Shoto's Kan anymore... Yeah, this is what he had to say, even before he died... "Accordingly, even fewer realize that karate in Tokyo today is almost completely different in form from what was earlier practiced in Okinawa. A few years ago I took my students to the Butoku-den in Kyoto to participate in a dedicatory martial arts demonstration...when it came time for their demonstrations, I was even more surprised for their so-called karate was unlike karate. Deeply embarrassed, I felt I should apologize to the other observers. It was the karate that I, who have devoted many years in the art, could not recognize as such." ~Gichin Funakoshi 1943 In Karate-Do, Way of My Life

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8187 Here's a good post with a bunch of people listing some of their bunkai for some of their kata.

Yeah, I agree. When I said the term karate was adopted in 1936, I was referring to the kanji meaning empty for karate. I believe its first use in a publication (with empty meaning) was actually around 1903-1906, I forget which. The reason why I didn't really separate the to-te from Okinawa-te as you rightly did is because the influence was so early on into Okinawan history. For example, in 1392, 36 families were recorded to have moved from China to Okinawa, many of which were proponents and experts in Chinese martial arts. The largest Chinese influence came in the latter part of the 18th or 19th century when a Chinese going by the name of Kusanku (which may just mean envoy, I'm unsure) demonstrated his knowledge, ushering a new era of exchange of martial arts between Okinawa and China, usually either by Chinese teachers or Okinawans who trained in China. Of course, all of this was still predated by the art of ti (later named "te" to Japanize it) which is in fact still in existance on Okinawa. All of this rambling is still in agreement with what you said...i just didn't have a chance to say it earlier (I had to drop someone off at a clinic). Just wanted to mention that I hold the view that contrary to popular legend, prior to 1879, martial arts on Okinawa was reserved solely for the upper-class. The myth that ti was developed after 1609 to overthrow Satsuma overlords is a bit forced and I believe ti was used for self-defense and development by nobility (Motobu-Ryu is based upon ti, which was used by the Ryukyuan Royal Bodyguards). Hence it is not until later that you see the introduction of belt systems into Okinawan martial arts to get rid of class difficulties, since before then, they were all upper-class. Peasants usually didn't have the desire, let alone the ability to practice martial arts before this. What does all that mean? It just means that Chinese boxing (from the Fuchou area, mostly) provides the basis for most Okinawan karate that is taught today.

Okinawa-Te was simply the name of Okinawan karate before they adopted the name "karate". At that time, it meant simply "Okinawan Fist". It was also called "tote" or "chinese fist". The term karate was officially adopted in 1936. This question has been answered numerous times by numerous people... http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=8609&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 There's more answers on other posts, but i gotta go...

Kobayashi Shorin Ryu has tons of cat stance as well. Probably the Itosu influence into Shito Ryu.

Well, welcome to the site and enjoy your time here!

This might be more helpful...I found this in my karate manual. Towards the end, there is some more principles rather than history... Shito-Ryu Shito-ryu is one of the four major style of World Karate Federation, the world governing body of Karate. It was founded by Kenwa Mabuni (1887-1952), an Okinawan born descended of so called "Bushi" (warrior) class. During his time, the martial arts (Okinawa-Te) was known according to the village where it was practiced : Shuri-Te (the hand of Shuri), Naha-Te and Tomari-Te. Mabuni learned Shuri-Te from Ankoh Itosu (1830-1915) who was a student of Sokon Matsumura (1792-1887), forefather of Shorin-ryu, and Naha-Te from Kanryo Higashionna (1853-1915) who mainly studied Kempo in China's Fukien province under Liu Liu Kung. Mabuni Also learned several empty hand katas and Kobudo (weapon) katas from Arakaki (1840-1918) and some white crane Kung Fu forms from Woo Yin Gue, a Chinese tea merchant in Okinawa. Shito-ryu founder Kenwa Mabuni (seated middle). Among others are Shotokan Founder Master Funakoshi (far left) and Kenei Mabuni (far right), eldest son. After Gichin Funakoshi introduced "Karate" in Japan in 1922, Kenwa Mabuni as a police officer, traveled several times in Japan and tried to spread his knowledge of Okinawa-Te in Japan. Finally he moved to Osaka, Japan in 1928 and started to teach Karate in Japan when Butokukai (then the governing body for martial arts in Japan) started registration for all Karate school and Master Mabuni named his style as Hanko-ryu (half-hard style) which he later in 1930's changed to "Shito-ryu" in honor of his two foremost teachers Itosu and Higashionna (the first kanzi character in 'Itosu' sounds like 'Shi' and that in 'Higashionna' sounds like 'to', 'ryu' stands for 'style' or 'school'). It may be noted that Ankoh Itosu and Kanryo Higashionna are the two most important name in the history of modern Karate-do as the Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi (1886-1957) was a student of Itosu (also of Azato) and the Goju-ryu founder Chojun Miyagi (1888-1953) was a student of Kenryo Higashionna. The other style of the four major style of Modern Japanese Karate (Shito-ryu, Shotokan-ryu, Goju-ryu and Wado-ryu), Wado-ryu was founded by Hironori Ohtsuka (1892-1982) who studied Shotokan under master Funakoshi. Master Mabuni, the founder of Shito-ryu Karate, died in Osaka, Japan in May, 1952 at age 64 leaving his name and art in every heart of each Shito-ryu Karate-ka. Shito-ryu, founded by Kenwa Mabuni, is a combination of Shotokan and Goju-ryu. Shotokan, which came from Shorin-ryu (from Shuri-Te), utilizes long linear stances and physical power and Goju-ryu, which came from Shorei-ryu (from Naha-Te and Tomari-Te) utilizes up and down stances and internal breathing power (hard and soft techniques). Shito-ryu adopted both principles from Shorin-ryu and Shorei-ryu. Shito-ryu is fast, but still powerful and artistic. It incorporates the powerful Shuri-Te katas like Naifanchin and Bassai, the hard and soft Naha-Te katas like Sanchin and Kururunfa, and the artistic Chinese white crane katas like Nipaipo and Paipuren. Shito-ryu is broad, yet still distinct. It emphasizes very much on Kihon (basics) at the beginning, but for a senior Shito-ryu student, quality and quantity run together. Shito-ryu contains all the eighteen Shorin-ryu katas, all the sixteen Shorei-ryu katas, the Chinese white crane katas, plus the katas devised by Master Mabuni himself from his broad knowledge and experiences, a total of more than sixty katas (depending on the organization). Moreover, the special characteristic of Shito-ryu which distinguish it from other school is that, Shito-ryu lives together with Kobudo (weapon arts) and sometimes Iaido (sword arts). The Kihon, Kumite, Karate katas, Kobudo Katas, Iaido katas and the principles & messages behind them made the treasury of Shito-ryu so magnetic and demanding that Shito-ryu deserves a life-long dedication to practice and perfect. SHITO-RYU'S FIVE PRINCIPLES OF DEFENSE 1. Teni Taisabaki (footwork). Shifting or turning quickly out of the opponent's way. 2. Ryusui Soft blocking. Redirecting a strong attack with a circular or deflecting parry. 3. Raka Hard blocking. Striking an off-center or indirect attack with sudden maximum power. 4. Hangeki Defense as attack. A good defense is offense. 5. Kushin Springing. A reflexive, darting "out and in" kind of body shifting from any angle

Hmm, let's see...there are two styles of Shito-Ryu on Okinawa, one taught by Shiroma Shinpan and the other by Mabuni Kenwa. Incidentally, they were childhood friends. I think their teachers were Itosu and Higaonna, and using a chinese character from each of their names ("shi" from "ito" in itosu and "to" from "higa" in higaonna), formed the name Shito-Ryu. As a side not to the confused, chinese characters have many different pronunciations. As an interesting note, Ishikawa Horoku, a student of Shiroma Shinpan had moved to Taiwan for five years and noted that his karate katas were almost identical to that of a local Chinese boxer. This is probably due to the heavy Chinese influence upon Okinawan martial arts. Even the name of my style (Shorin Ryu) comes from the Chinese name Shaolin. Itosu was a Shorin Ryu stylist in the tradition of Matsumura, and Higaonna was the teacher of Miyagi Chojun, who started Gojo-Ryu. Itosu also had Chinese teachers (in addition to the Chinese influenced teachings of Matsumura) but he stressed physical strength and power. Of course his teacher once remarked to him that "With your strong punch you can knock anything down, but you can't so much as touch me." He also created the simplified Pinan/Heian kata that are so prevalent in many karate styles nowadays. Higaonna trained heavily in Chinese styles, learning Chinese weaponry and would often read a Chinese boxing manual known in Japan as Kenpo Haku. A lot of Shito-Ryu's "light with extraodinary footwork and low, fast kicks" probably came from Higaonna's influence. Sorry, I only just a little bit of history, not so much techniques...

I'm not sure myself. Maybe because it makes it harder to determine its precise impact point? I heard somewhere that some weapons were adopted over others because they were easier to mass produce. I don't know if this is a reference to how thin they are or not.

Another bunkai that I have used for this movement is that since you have a hand "prepped" at your left side, that indicates that you are grabbing and pulling, since there really is no such thing as a "prepped" movement in kata (at least the way I interpret it). Thus if someone grabs you with their left arm or you grab their left arm and then you step out to their left side into the stance you see in the kata, you are perfectly set up. Then, if you hold someone's wrist at your hip and pull while you are in that stance, their left arm is completely vulnerable and if you perform this "elbow block" (which is an actuality a stike), it will fall precisely within cleft that is opened up by the pull with your other hand. You can then either break his arm or throw him. I usually go for the arm break because it is followed up by a strike to the head or the back of the neck, which is made vulnerable by the above sequence. I think one reason why people do not reply so much on this post is that because it takes a lot of effort to write all this down!

Well, if you really want to train there, go ahead...I would just follow the advice of Prodigal Son and really make sure that you are completely set up with a letter of reccomendation and that you have made contacts beforehand. Otherwise, there is too much that can go wrong (plus you would be in communist China, and while I have nothing against Chinese people in general, sometimes things do happen). I for one think it is neat if you had a chance to go there. I take Shorin Ryu karate, and its name itself stems in honor from the Shaolin temple (only the Okinawans and Japanese pronounced it Shorin) because Okinawan karate is a mix of indigenous Okinawan martial arts and Chinese martial arts. I for one plan to go to Okinawa and with connections that my instructor and his instructor have w/the head of my style, train over there for maybe a month next summer. I'm still working out the details though.

Oh, thanks. I'm a kobayashi guy. I had an opportunity to go to a weekend seminar last July that Grandmaster Kise was at (um, assuming you take the Matsumura Orthodox that he is the head of...). It was a lot of fun and I was impressed by both Kise and Kyoshi Ader, who hosted the thing.

It helps if you get properly balanced sai. I have a pair of handmade Shureido sai that have great balance. In addition, at its center where all the pieces meet there is no annoying bubble that comes with mass-produced sai and is flat, allowing you a better grip. The downside is that with shipping, they were almost $150...

What are you talking about? I'm not calling you out, I actually am not sure what you are saying...what is a martician? Please help me out... Am I just missing something here?

Fortunately, most martial arts are designed to give "the smaller guy" an advantage over "the bigger guy". That being said, using your full body weight behind attacks will help, which will help you generate more power than just plain muscle. Don't give ground as much. It is easy just to back up against an opponent, but if he or she is bigger, then it is somewhat of a psychological factor against you if you back up, unless you plan it deliberately. Move to the side or forward. I don't know if this is in reference to your goju ryu or your aikido, but in either one, usually bigger guys expect the little guy to retreat. When you move in, you can close the distance and use your weapons that are shorter to your advantage.

Talk to him if this remains a problem, but do bring up the fact that while you do want to learn these techniques correctly, it is best for the opponent to offer some resistance but not complete resistance until you get the techniques down. Otherwise, you won't build the foundation in those techniques. Once you are more comfortable with those techniques, you can tell him to step it up. But needless resistance is very poor form when doing partner exercises and is not conducive to proper learning. If it remains a problem, talk to a sempai about it and he/she should correct the problem.

Shotokan was originated in Japan from the teachings of Gichin Funakoshi, who trained in Okinawa but later moved to Japan. Therefore it is significantly different in some things and pretty similar in others.

Yes, he swung mostly vertical with some horizontal at me. I simply side-stepped, grabbed the bat, twisted up to get him to release it, and nailed him in the solar plexus. End of story.

I like to spar, although we only use cloth fist pads and a mouthpiece. We usually end up taking it to the ground. I enjoy the one on one or one on two aspect of the personal combat.

I've never played 3, but I loved 1 and 2.

I like to close in when I fight so I like to grapple and/or take it to the ground after exchanging a few blows. Consequently, I like to use strikes or fakes to set up some sort of a grab or choke that I can utilize.

I just saw this style name on a couple of posts and I know nothing about it? I was just curious about its principles, techniques, history, etc. Can anyone help me out?