tatsujin

At the end of the day, it really does come down to money... I have never run a "professional" or "commercial" school. Why? Because I wanted to teach who I wanted, when I want and how I wanted. If I have to make a living from teaching, then I can't do that. Some of you will argue that you can...but I disagree totally because I have seen it happen so many times. You may have early success, but you are not going to have long term financial success. With that said... Before you left the gym, did you happen to ask this person why they were doing this? I have skimmed through this a few times and didn't see that. Also, I am curious...were you one of the people ignored or not ignored? Asking what is going on (in a polite and respectful manner) can quite often result in you finding out answers that you were not expecting. I am NOT saying that the following is the case here, but I will share a story that MIGHT relate... Several years ago, a friend of mine ran a very small dojo. He had a full time job and the revenue from the dojo basically paid to keep the doors open. Anyway, he had a project come up at his "real job" and asked me to help with some of the instruction. I agreed to do it. He had me teaching a class of 7 people that were all going to be testing for their purple belt (yonkyu - 四級). In this system, that is just before brown belt...so much was beginning to be expected of them at this level. Anyway, I ended up doing the testing for them (agreed upon by all involved). I wrapped up the testing and told them all the results of the grading would be available in the next class...which was about 3 days away. That day/class came. I had everyone bow in and we then did our warm up session. At that point, I announced that no one had passed the grading. I left it at that. I went right into the training for the night (which no one happened to notice was related to their next belt level). Now, they all passed. They were all going to get their rank. BUT! I wanted to see what would happen. Would anyone not give me their best in this class after getting that news? Would the "mental" effect of not passing the grading cause a melt down? Would anyone ask me about it? Etc, etc, etc...Long story short, the only woman in the class (a young lady of about 22 or so) took the appropriate opportunity during the class to come to me off to the side of the class and ask me what she could do to ensure she would pass the next grading. No complaining. No demand for equity. She didn't even ask what prevented her from passing. She just wanted to know what she could do moving forward to ensure that she passed on the next try. BINGO! Needless to say, once the class finished and everyone was sitting in seiza waiting to bow out of class, an interesting discussion was had and all 7 learned a great life lesson.

A search did not really turn up what I was looking for...so here goes... Heian or Pinan? And once answered, why... For those that can answer the following and have answered the above, Your Heian/Pinan answer or Gekisai? And, of course, why? Due to some things that an old student of mine has me doing, I am taking another look at the Heian/Pinan katas. Thanks for your time, answers and thoughts/opinions.

My apologies for anyone that may have been interested in this. Life, health and the holidays got in the way and I have not been very active here for about a month. This whole process has actually been moving forward and I am getting closer to being able to start publishing information here soon. I have already shot a video showing how the iron palm dit da jow (跌打酒) is made. Unfortunately, I do not yet have permission to share the recipe, but I do have an alternative recipe that I am comfortable with and can share that as needed. To note, this video shows the herb package, talks about how to store the raw herbs if they are not going to be used immediately, the containers and materials to use, the alcohol to use and then how to get the most bang for your buck with the jow once you have everything mixed together. Along these lines, the jow has been aging for about 6 weeks now (and this is a useable age...but the longer you can let it set, the better). I also made another batch of just "regular" dit da jow (meaning non-iron palm). I did not shoot a video of that as the process is identical. However, the coloration is different, so I am getting ready to shoot another video showing the external or visible differences between the two. Lastly, I have got the training bag as well as the fill for it. So we are good to go there. I have got one question already that I am going to be incorporating into the videos I am going to be doing (thank you for that). Should anyone happen to have any additional questions or things that they would like to see as a part of this, please post here....even if it is just comments or suggestions or anything at all. As I said, as long as there was a person or two that is interested, I would get it done. I am and I will...I am just a little old and slow! HA! Thank you!

An old student of mine recently convinced me that I should do some updating of things, create a website, get a new patch/logo, etc. Not sure about it, but I had some time on my hands. I would like to get the feedback from folks here (be as honest as you'd like, I have thick skin). I didn't know where to post this...so I thought that since I am a "karate guy", I would put it here. Have a look and let me know. Thank you.

Two great honors from this forum at the same time! I don't know what to say other than thank you very much! I would also like to offer my congratulations to all of the other winners! Again, thank you very much and I an honored and humbled beyond words.

Wow! Thank you all so very much! I am very humbled by this!

If your hips and spine are an issue or area of concern (or just something that you want to work on), I would highly recommend checking out the book: "Secrets of the Pelvis for Martial Arts" You can get the ebook on Amazon for just a couple of bucks. I don't agree with the author 100% on everything, but it is well done and beneficial. Also, I would look at: "Anatomy Trains: Myofascial Meridians for Manual Therapists and Movement Professionals" Actually, anything by Tom is pretty good, but it can be pretty dense as it is geared more towards those working in the field. But a real wealth of information. Also worth a look is: "Fascial Stretch Therapy" Hope that might be of some help to you.

I have not (and would not) incorporate yoga into martial arts classes. However, the thing to remember is that yoga is much more than just "stretching". One of the things that I learned from my Chinese related studies (primarily Yangshi Taijiquan) is the concept of and use of jibengong (基本功) or "basic foundation work". These are not techniques per say, but specific exercises that teach the proper way to open and close the kua (not the best translation, but think "hip" and/or "pelvic crease"), expand and contract the ribs/torso, lengthen and straighten the spine and, for those that have an idea that qi/chi/ki exists, sinking it (among other things). What is interesting that the ideograms in Chinese for jibengong are almost identical to those used for kihon waza (basic or foundational/fundamental techniques...基本技). And the same ideograms for jibengong in Chinese read as "kihon ko" in Japanese. With "ko" being the same character in kiko...with ko meaning work. I have found that most Japanese styles start out very hard and rely mostly on "li" or physical strength and over much time work towards the soft or, if you prefer, internal. The Chinese neijia arts (內家) spend a great amount of time in the beginning working on these more internal foundational arts and only then move to the more practical side of things....one of the main reasons why arts like Taijiquan and Baguazhang are, incorrectly, thought of as being generally ineffective. The Chinese have another concept of "wujifa" and this is where I would put things like yoga that fall outside of a specific "box" (like meditation, etc.) and yoga would definitely fall into that category.

We always started out with English and Japanese with beginners. By the time they are testing for shodan (and above) it is all basically in Japanese. I have found that over time, the proper understanding of the Japanese terms helps in understanding the more original intent of the techniques when compared to how they are taught in more modern times and in more competitive training environments.

I have seen folks use jodan uke and age uke interchangeably, but they really shouldn't if you want to be a bit technical about it. Jodan uke (上段受) translates to upper level reception or upper level receiving. It is really more of a generic term as just about any receiving technique (incorrectly referred to as a "block") can be done at an "upper level". Age uke (上げ受け), on the other hand, translates as raise and receive. So, in this particular case, there is a definite component of rising in conjunction with the receiving. So, it gives us an angle of motion to work with where jodan uke does not. If I might add a personal observation that I have had over the decades...most martial arts are taught and continue to teach the starting point of the movement (in this case uke kata, 受方 or receiving methods...or uke ho if you prefer) and only really look at the start of the technique and the end of the technique with, maybe, a little bit of attention paid to the path the technique takes. But, everything between that start and end is generally ignored or not examined much. This is a shame because very often this is where the "real technique" is being done...or the desired outcome is actually achieved. Just a thought as you do your "blocks"...

Also, for my karate based friends here, this is not a "Chinese only" type of training. Usually you will find the more destructive type of training in the Okinawan and some Japanese arts. However, there are a very few out there that teach omoi te (重い手) or "heavy hand" and I would suggest doing some research on that. Iron palm or heavy hand is something that can certainly be added to just about any art you are training in. Thanks!

Excellent question! And I will be posting more on this topic in the introductory section. Since this is what is referred to as an "indirect method" of training, you will need a bag as well as the material to fill it with. I am not sure if I can post non-affiliate links to what I purchased or not (does anyone know?). I got my bag off of Amazon as well as the mung beans to fill it with. Mung beans are the first level of fillings to be used. There are other options to mung beans, but I stick with them since they are cheap and easy to get. You will also need some dit da jow (跌打酒), literally "hit fall wine". This will be used before and after the daily training on the bag. That can be difficult to find as you really need to be able to trust the people or person making it. In this case, I will be showing how to make up to a gallon of your own. I am working now to be able to secure permission to share the actual recipe for it. I was actually able to get to an herbalist that I trust and get the materials for it. I'll be showing from start to finish how to make your own. Lastly, you will need a table of some sort to put your bag on that will support the hitting we will be doing. And I will be showing to to sort of measure the size you will need. So, the list would be: Striking or iron palm bag Filling for the bag (mung beans) Dit da jow Table for bag Since this is a muti-level and multi-year training (in total), there are additional items that would be added, but this is what you will need for the first level and depending upon the training, would cover the first 6 months to a year of training. As I said, great question and keep them coming! If it is OK to post links to what I purchased, I am happy to share them with you all.

My apologies for not posting this sooner. I have some sort of strange internet issue that blocks this website at times and I have not been able to post here for the last several days. I am currently waiting on one (1) item to begin the follow along with the iron palm training. Here is the plan that I have currently as far as my plan for posting: - Introduction to Iron Palm - Warm up and preparation - Striking the bag - Closing or balancing exercises - Testing the results All of that will be over a specific amount of time. I'd like to ask for any questions that you might have now that I can answer now as well as any questions or suggestions to the above. I just want to make sure I cover what you folks following along might have questions about. Since I can do the "introduction" without the needed piece I am waiting on, I'd like to include as many of your questions as possible. Thanks for your help, questions and suggestions.

A little late to the game, but can add a little bit to this for anyone that might be interested. Mr. Vellucci's instructor (or at least one of them) was Chuck Chandler. I actually knew Mr. Chandler before he passed due to a similar interest in Hakutsuru or white crane. Chandler was a student of Yabiku and his credentials (Yabiku's) are legit from Okinawa. Additionally, a friend of mine who is very highly ranked and regarded in the Goju-ryu community was learning from both Chandler and Yabiku. He had nothing but good things to say about them at the time. I have not spoken to him in some time, so that may have changed over time. Note that I am not mentioning my friend's name...the reason is that I don't have permission to and he is a highly positioned member and representative of a Goju group in Okinawa and...well...let's just say that the Japanese/Okinawans can sometimes be a little "funny" about those sorts of things. Lastly, I have seen video of Vellucci doing a number of hakutsuru katas as well as bunkai and oyo from them. I don't necessarily agree with some of the bunkai and oyo, but I saw nothing wrong with his performance of the katas (probably 6 or so). Everything fairly well lined up to the hakutsuru training and information that I had via a number of different lineages. Hopefully that is of some small help.

Congrats sir! Most certainly a milestone to be celebrated!

Alrighty, good enough for me! I'll start putting some stuff together and will begin posting soon. My thanks to the folks that expressed interest!

So, since George [Dillman] was already referenced...I'll tell a quick funny story. Back around 1995 or so, George was doing a pressure point seminar in Houston (I was living just outside of Houston at the time). Since my then instructors instructor had trained with George for a bit back in the day, my instructor and I went to be polite. During the training, George demonstrated the "kung fu salute". You know the one...right hand is a fist and the left hand is like a knife hand and they are held together out in front of you. George asked the people there if they knew why this was in kung fu. Different folks gave a few responses and he answered no to all of them. He went on to say that the reason why was because it made a connection was made via a pressure point on the right hand in between the pinky and ring finger knuckles and the same mirror point on the palm side of the left hand. He said that this created a circuit of qi through the arms via the hands and in doing so, you could not pull the hands apart. He then had everyone pair up and try it, going around the room checking things. My instructor and I then started going around the room as well, about 3 or 4 pairs of people. So, when trying to pull the hands apart, they were told to pull going in a horizontal way...if that makes sense. We were walking up and immediately pulling the hands apart by pulling one hand towards us and pushing the other towards their own chest. Then explaining that trying to pull them apart the way George was showing was fighting against the lats of the other person. A very strong muscle group. Doing the push/pull method that worked for us isolated biceps (and triceps). Everyone just kinda looked at us like we were crazy and didn't know what to think...LOL. At one point I had a copy of Soken's "secret" pressure point notes. There wasn't much too them and was no different that what you would see written in all sorts of books at the time. If I can find them, I will post them up for folks to take a look at.

Keep in mind too that Choi Yong Sul (the founder of Hapkido) trained in Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu under Takeda Sokaku for at least a short time and probably received more indepth training from Yoshida Kotaro. Choi appears at least once in Takeda's eimeiroku (英名録, a record of who Takeda taught, when and for how long). Yoshida was known for teaching Koreans and other foreigners. He passed along Shidare Yanagi Ryu to Don Angier and taught the famous and Oyama Masutatsu, founder of Kyokushin Karate (also Korean, actual name Choi Yeong-eui). So it would not be totally uncommon for Japanese to teach Koreans (and others). Hope that is of some help.

So, before I ask my full question...a little bit of a backstory is needed I think. Back in the early to mid 1990's, I started seeing a very well know traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) doctor and acupuncturist. Additionally, he is also a very highly ranked martial artist. To keep the story short, he was very interested in my knowledge of TCM and the points that he was using on me. This lead to some very interesting conversations about the martial arts in general and specifically what I was studying and practicing. Eventually, he recommended that I go meet an herbalist friend of his. He would not get into specifics beyond that. When I agreed to do so, he wrote a letter of introduction for me to give the herbalist. It was in Chinese and I never did find out what it said. Again, skipping some long details, this herbalist is also a martial artist who specialized in not just iron palm, but a complete iron body system. Again, skipping some details, I was not interested in the whole iron body system, but he did agree to teach me iron palm. But, there were some restrictions placed upon me as to what I could teach or "publish". I guess a better way to say it is what I could "make known". This herbalist has since passed on and his son has eased some of those restrictions. So, my question is if there is anyone here that would be interested in me sharing the iron palm (Tie Zhang, 鐵掌, sometimes incorrectly seen as 鐵沙掌 iron sand palm...that is something different) training protocols as I again begin training in this system? Essentially, it would be kind of a follow along types of posts as to the training equipment I am using, the training protocols, the making of the dit da jow (跌打酒, fall and hit wine...both general use and that designed specifically for iron palm) , the qigong being done in conjunction with it and the results that the iron palm training brings. This would not be an attempt to teach iron palm, but it might be of interest to anyone thinking of training in this manner as well as those that might already be doing a form of iron palm. And, of course, I would be willing to answer any questions that someone may have. If a couple of people express an interest, I will go ahead and take the time to make the "follow along" posts and information. To be very clear, this is the "indirect" method of training the iron palm. So, there is no disfiguring of the hand or doing permanent damage to the hand. So, just let me know if there is an interest or not and we can go from there. Thanks!

Welcome! Good to have you here!

There are several things within what you have asked and said... From an Okinawan perspective, "original karate" existed before the influence of Chinese based martial arts. It just wasn't called "karate" originally. We would technically be talking about "te" (ti or di, 手). This would, essentially, be comprised of Tegumi (手組) grappling, Ti’gwa (手小) percussive impact or striking, Torite (取り手) seizing or grasping hand (or Tuite 取手), Buki-gwa (weapons) and kata (型) per-arranged forms. All of this existed prior to the introduction of the Southern Chinese based martial arts (nanquan) that were brought back to Okinawa by various masters (Matayoshi, Higashionna, Miyagi, Uechi, etc.) and the arrival of Go Kenki (Wu Xianghui) and his specific introduction in Kume Village of White Crane (Baihequan, 白鶴拳)...and according to sources much smarter than I, it was probably Minghequan (鳴鶴拳, Crying, Calling, Whooping, or Shouting Crane fist). What did these Okinawan martial arts study while in China? Actually, there is no real way to say for sure. A mixture to some degree I would say for sure. Folks have talked about Monk Fist Boxing (Luohanquan), Five Ancestors Fist (Wuzuquan) and others. I guess the really "popular" thing now is Incense Shop Boxing (Xiangdianquan). To shorten the story, it was shortly after this integration of the Chinese based arts that the reference to the Chinese started showing up in the name used on Okinawa. Originally, "karate" was 唐手 or Tang Hand...with Tang referring specifically to China...so you could say China Hand correctly. Once the decision was made to try and integrate Okinawan martial arts into the school system and Japan (spearheaded by Itosu Anko and carried out, primarily, by Funakoshi Gichin), Okinawan karate (China Hand) was fundamentally changed from there on. So, when you ask if there are missing moves in "original karate", the answer is yes...assuming that we are calling the integration of native Okinawan martial arts with the Southern Chinese martial arts "original karate". The changes started with the name "karate" itself. It went from karate (唐手) as China Hand...or Tang Hand to karate (空手) as empty hand. Additionally, they made it a "do" (道)...an art with the implication that it was an art or way of self-improvement or perfection as opposed to a more combat oriented art. So, kenjutsu became kendo, aikijutsu became aikido, etc. After all, you are wanting to teach this to school children (and adults). So, you can't say "this is a strike ment to kill" or "this is a technique to dislocate, break and/or destroy a joint", etc. Long story short, an integrate and full spectrum fight art was stripped of most of the main components of the original. What is left is basically a striking and kicking art. Can you find "some" grappling, takedowns, locks, etc. In the "modernized" Japanese based martial arts? Sure. But that is the exception to the rule and not the rule itself. At the end of the day, the entire original basis of the art was totally changed. So, do we have this "original karate" still around? Yes and no. Motobu-ryu is still around and that would be a close example (and if you want to have some fun, do some google-fu and see what Motobu thought of the modernized version of "karate" and also of Funakoshi...lol). Even on Okinawa now, most of what is taught there is karate-do (空手道). Can that system be used effectively for fighting and/or self-defense? Yes. Is it what was originally taught on Okinawa prior to the modernization period? No.

I think that these two questions can be combined into one. I think that when we look at what an internal art is (and therefore, what is not an internal art is an external art) has to do with power or power generation. In using the Chinese model, we have li and jin. The characters for each help to understand what is ment, The character for li is: This character is ment to be a plow that goes through the earth or ground. It gives the connotation of pushing hard through resistance. In more general terms, it means physical force or energy. This is the character for jin: Notice that the right most portion of the character is li. So, there is li within jin (but no jin within li). Notice also that there are additional characters to the right. Those characters say "jing" (巠). There are three (3) in total: 一 : this is yi and generally means one or "the whole" 巛 : this is chuan and refers to a river 工 : this is gong and refers to work...it is the same character that makes up gongfu or kung fu. So jing is referring to something that is flowing or working and is under the surface. Jing when combined with li gives us jin. Some folks (mainly external martial artists) take this the wrong way, but li is often referred to as "dumb power" or "stupid power". Jin, on the other hand is often referred to as "educated power" or "skilled power". Use an example, someone joins a karate school of some sort. They immediately learn to punch, kick, strike, etc. Literally or almost literally from day one. It is all external strength/force/energy. Through training, they will hopefully learn the components of their art that make their external or physical strength/force/energy stronger. When someone goes to a taijiquan, xingyiquan or baguazhang school (assuming the instructors are skilled enough), they are more concerned about what is happening on the inside than the outside. The first skills that are learned is "song" (only partially translated correctly as relax). This is where we get into the "mystical and mysterious" concept of qi. If you don't believe in it, that's fine. But the neijia (internal arts) are concerned with developing the structure that allows you to accumulate qi in the dantien and the to express it outwards when and how you wish. And, of course, it does take some degree of li to express it (fa). But when you have jin, you need less li. But the other side of the coin is that you can have all of the li in the world, but it won't give you jin. Well, an internal art CAN be spiritual if you are using it that way. Remember that the neijia started as Daoist arts. So, take baguazhang for example. You can certainly use it as a means of "moving meditation". And some people do just that. They never move off that and learn or utilize it as a martial art. Some folks do just the opposite and concentrate on just the martial aspect. Some do both. As to a feeling, you do get different feeling and/or sensations when doing a neijia art correctly. I am not sure what you mean by aspect.

As soon as you mentioned Matsumura Seito I had a pretty good idea. Not alot of the Okinawan based guys are doing kiko...and Ryan makes a heck of an impression with his iron body skill demonstrations! I have "known" Ryan for a long time. He and I both go back to the early days of the interwebs when websites were new and we were all on email mailing lists. I don't know if he would know me from "Adam" nowadays...it has been a while. The thing that struck me with what Ryan was (is) doing...at least that I am aware of, I can't claim to know all of his training and information...is that it seems to all be "hard" kiko. Meaning iron body and/or Golden Bell types of training. That is certainly a part of the qigong of [southern] China, but the softer portions seem to be "missing". Anyway, good to know that we both "know" some of the same people...or at least Ryan! LOL!

His name would not be Ryan would it?

So...this may not apply to everyone (due to your time in the martial arts, etc.). But I thought it might be interesting for folks to share (or comment!) on some funny stories that they have from the martial arts training. After almost 50 years, I have got a literal TON of them. So, I'll start it off...let's see if anyone is interested. So, way back in the day, I studied Shotokan (ended up with a Yondan and Renshi license before I moved on). It was through the old KAH or Karate Association of Hawaii that was, at the time, run by Kenneth Funakoshi. Anyway, this was probably around 1980 or so (yes, I am OLD). Our dojo was small and ROUGH...and I do mean ROUGH (ever been put through a window with a side thrust kick? LOL!). We were very small and trained in an old house converted to a dojo. One night as we were wrapping up our last class of the night (advanced class), a young fellow came into the dojo and he was carrying a pair of "Bruce Lee num-chucks". I all them "Bruce Lee num-chucks" as they were the bright yellow with black stripes (and attached by a chain) that were made to look like the pair Bruce Lee used in Game of Death. And "num-chucks" is how the kid pronounced it (and when I said kid, he was like 20 or 22). Anyway, after we bowed out, this young man was invited to come onto the floor and several of us were talking to him. After having been involved in a couple of dojo storming sessions (yes, that really did happen back in the day), we were a little curious as to how this was going to play out. The young man was interested in lessons and specifically wanted to learn more about using "num-chucks" as he was self taught and needed to learn more. The young man proceeded to show us all of the fancy moves he had taught himself (and, to his credit, he was quite flashy). So Don (who owned and ran the dojo) unhooked the 70 pound heavy bag we had and said, "Can you show me your technique using the bag?". So, the young man stepped back and launched into a flurry of techniques. You know the stuff...bouncing them off of the back of your arm and catching them under you arm, side swings that were couple with rolling them across you hand, etc. All of the stuff you see in the Bruce Lee movies and other B rated stuff. Anyway, he finally issues a KIAI and hit the bag with a swing of the num-chucks with all of the power he had. Now, many of you probably know where this is going. Unfortunately for him, he didn't....and had never used his num-chucks to hit anything other than air. The num-chucks hit the back and then recoiled right back at him and hit him in the head. Then he hit the ground and it took him about 5 minutes before he knew what his name was. Everyone was nice and no one outwardly laughed at him (at the time), etc. Don ended up telling him that weapons were not generally a part of what was usually taught as an official part of the Shotokan curriculum but many of us trained with a variety of different weapons and he was welcome to join the school. Needless to say, after the young man said he would think about it, we never saw him or heard from him again. After reading this story, I don't know if it will come off as funny as it actually was. Anyway, if others jump in and share I have more... Thanks!