Rich

Not the best place to look for authentic ninjutsu. If you want videos then at least get ones by Hatsumi, Tanemura, Manaka, Hoban, Malmstrom, Legare- although learning the feel, which is soooo important, cannot be had properly from videos as Ive said before. Try https://www.ninjutsu.com instead- you'll also find kuji home study there but be warned you'll get bored with it easily if you don't have a long term attitude and higher purpose. Rich

I'm glad you seem to have found a non-money grabbing school and can fully understand your current financial position so, yes, put off the sword until it's the right time. Hey, I'm not against Star Wars re-enactments (although not in homework time of course!) but probably too old myself- but then again Generally you are correct. Sometimes however you strike with the hilt as you draw forward and/or rotate to strike. All movements are as fluid as possible. Also learning to jam the draw with your free hand so you can then draw and cut yourself or, maybe if unarmed, flow into locks etc and then using their sword to cut them. It's all good stuff and great fun. Take care Rich

Hi fireka Learning the Okinawan weapons and the sword would be great. Your understanding of both sides of a conflict using these could be enhanced. As for waiting til you've learned one kata for each weapon I wouldn't say it would matter too much. After all you are already learning three different weapons anyway. I don't use sai/tonfa- I do train the bo but there are differences in how I do this as I use taijutsu. However, what I will say, and what's most important, is that your attitude is good. This is so important and I am glad to see your consideration for various factors coming through. If you use common sense and get good information then you wont go far wrong- I will be happy to give any help I can and I will say when I haven't got the answer & I would say Hobbitbob is another good resource too. Your sensei gives you another opinion. With three viewpoints and your own thoughts you are on a good footing. I dont know where you are but I seem to recall a chap called Higuchi in Ohio in the eighties who was a great sword teacher but I haven't found him on the web. Good hunting for someone. Just for info- Iaijutsu is drawing the sword-an art in itself because the first cut could be the decisive one. It involves drawing from all sorts of positions. I learnt a nifty one for a narrow hallway the other day- one where you wouldn't generally think of using a long weapon. Kenjutsu is generally the actual part of the conflict when you have your sword drawn and are engaging the opponent. Regards Rich

Hi Fireka. No, I meant what I said, mate, but thanks for trying to make out I'm gentler than I am Ninjutsu attracts many immature people and unbalanced individuals who are on weird trips and it gets quite frustrating for instructors when they keep coming out of the woodwork. Now I'm not saying our friend is unbalanced- what I am saying is if you haven't got commitment, common sense and a desire to learn kihon for many years and just want kuji and smoke bombs and all the sensationalist stuff then real ninjutsu may not be for you- maybe when you are older and wiser perhaps but not now. With regards to practicing two martial arts together- it can be very difficult especially if the principles of each art are in conflict. In taijutsu (ninjutsu) the body is kept very relaxed and flowing and power is generated through bodyweight movement not hip twisting and kime. The fundamentals are very different to modern karate although the original karate I mention in other posts comes alot closer in many respects so would pose less of an issue. However, it is still best,as you say Fireka, to get a good foundation in one art first. The only issue there being that you have to unlearn a host of things when you start the other art. Karateka are usually the hardest to train in taijutsu as they have generally got use to thinking of tension as strength, showing great focus in kata and having abrupt motions when doing blocks and punches, for example. Not all but most. In respect of sword work, Fireka, are you after kenjutsu, kendo or iaijutsu and have you looked at any styles? There are many bad instructors out there when it comes to weapons training so you'll have to look carefully. I can't see too much of a problem learning karate and katana together really, although I appreciate your dedication to your new style, but do what feels right to you. Anyway take care Rich

I can't believe that with all the dojos from three different organisations that I sent you there isn't one close enough????? You want to learn how to make smoke bombs? Give me strength- you look for a rich tradition that incorporates different schools, natural movement generating high power levels, philosophy, psychology, survival etc etc and you post that. I guess that you may be too young really to gain anything from the art and would urge you to get some of the more sensationalist films on video and indulge in some fantasy as a real dojo probably wouldn't be too happy to have someone with an attitude like that. Rich

OK. When it comes to taijutsu learning from an instructor is definitely best as unless you have internal arts training and understand relaxed movement you don't have a foundation for looking at tapes and learning. My suggestion is do whatever seminars you can- give me details of where you are and I'll see if I can find someone for you- and then watch some videos. You can pick them up at a couple of places- PM me and I'll give you details. There are also some kuji material you can purchase too. I have known people who have tried to do their learning via video and missed the 'in the open' secrets. They can do the technique to a degree but miss the feeling, and that is the key to the advanced stuff, so you must get the basic training in person. Rich

Hi Rich Neil lists some of the physiological effects of the adrenal dump and rightly points out that they are common to us all. You can't overcome this entirely and to learn to deal with it requires live training and pressure testing, as Neil again points out. Personally waiting too long can be debilitating I have found-the shakes get worse etc. Getting into action helps to overcome this. Adrenaline needs to be utilised- either to leg it or fight- not to stand still. With regards to the knife. If someone is intent on killing you with one and you don't see it, as is common, then you will end up in a very bad way or worse. At this point 'winning' is still breathing at the end. That's one reason to always try to hit hard, hit first and keep on hitting until the threat is neutralised- you don't know what's in their hand (Be aware of your laws on reasonable force and don't think this applies to the local drunk (unless he is really dangerous of course) or a mouthy youth- but still be aware of body language to try to ascertain the threat and anything that might be hidden during a verbal exchange). Knife disarms can be suicidal so taking the knife away would only be done if the opponent is stunned so it can be attempted at all, you are still hitting as you go, and the knife is presented to you in a way that fosters all of this. Don't focus solely on the knife in other words. I am no knife expert and there are only a few people with real experience but that is pretty much the theme. Obviously, awareness and avoidance of situations where this may occur are your number one priorities. Rich

KA - 'I know about kuji-in semi-alot'. If this sentence translates as you know a lot about kuji-in then I'd suggest you think again unless you have been practising it for a good number of years. Within the world of what you call the ninja schools there are a number of crap instructors, even in the legitimate organisations. Finding a jewel in the dung is a hard job. As I said though there are nine schools, even when you find a decent instructor you will probably spend most of your time training two foundation fighting arts which aren't ninjutsu at all. I dont know how old you are but if you are genuinely interested and of adult age then you will make it happen if that's what you want. Travelling to seminars once a month, or every few months, might be a start. It'll cost and you'll have to be dedicated but if you really want it.... If you are younger than that my suggestion would be to find a legitimate art as close to you as possible- Aikijutsu/ jujutsu etc. and train that. A 'ninja' will use whatever is available and will endure - try seeing it as a state of mind and be patient until you are older. Finally, Bob's right, Kuji is a buddhist thing. I'm not convinced it was part of ninjutsu prior to the last century at all. Even if it was, it is a very small part. "Well, if you do any martial art, you must have an open mind to everything"- that's how many people have been conned out of lots of money. An open mind is good, a critical attitude and common sense essential. Rich

Trouble with knives tho these days is that someone who knows how to use, and is prepared to, will already have the knife palmed before they come at you. There are many instances where the person hasnt realised they have even been stabbed until after! I think any attack must be viewed as a life threatening one- unless you live in quaint ol' area where friday night pub punch ups are the entertainment and everyone goes home with black eyes ready for next weeks. Seriously, you won't know if they are carrying until too late. There's an old adage- a shower never cuts, and a cutter never shows. It holds up enough times to be worth remembering. Younger martial artists, and older ones who should know better, please take careful note of Bob's post. He goes into enough detail that the thought of a real encounter should worry you. Training is fun- fighting isn't (unless you have rules and a ref). Please let good sense prevail. Regards Rich

Hi Rich Most of the answers you'll get here are by people who have never been in a life threatening situation so 'pinch of salt' might be a phrase used here. To answer your question. Entering a stance: If you saw another post I wrote you will remember that stances are frozen moments in time, part of movement stopped for demonstration purposes. So no you wouldnt do anything that daft. If you are attacked you will be in some form of 'shizen' or natural posture. Your first strike (if you have any sense it will occur before theirs) will probably move you into a more zenkutsu position and here you will move into whats appropriate for further attacks. High kicks: For your average person these are pretty dodgy- and chances are the action will start closer and 'in yer face' negating much chance- to use them, so if you kick low kicks are the order of the day. Guard: Most situations unless you are attacked by surprise will start with some verbal exchange. At this point a 'fence' should be raised- kind of a non-threatening hands up posture which leaves your hands poised for a hopeful 'one shot finish'. If they touch your fence- BANG! To some others: Real fights are sloppy. Real karate looks quite different to generally what is taught. People who have never fought in the street against a thug should remain silent on the subject. Wisdom is teaching what you know and listening when you don't- many karateka need to have a bit of ego-lessening, even if they are young and impressionable. After all if other people take on board what you say and then get hurt when it all turns to sh*t you must take some responsibility for the outcome. Regards Rich

Best to view the kuji hand positions as aids to meditative focus, at least to begin with anyway. There are some strange things that I can't quite explain in the more esoteric martial arts- a lot are illusions or 'tricks' but there are a couple of things that go beyond this. However, they are outgrowths of normal training- years of it- so my advice would be to forget about it and get on with studying the physical side. If you are interested in 'ninjutsu' (even in organisations such as the Bujinkan which popularised 'ninjas' only three of the nine schools teach ninjutsu, and you wont learn too much of them for a while generally) look for a good school and again forget the mystical stuff and train well. The kuji stuff is present in a number of bujutsu schools- I know one schools headmaster uses them as 'spells' to heal sick villagers where he lives. IMHO we are in the world of placebos for any that do find benefit here- but hey that's a pretty amazing human ability anyway! Best wishes Rich

I remember someone being bored with kata now that they had learned them all. I think if they get the above book it might help those who can't see what kata has to offer. Only a thought... http://www.sanbushi.co.uk/martialartspublishing/index.jsp The book and the site are nothing to do with me so this in no way benefits me I offer it only for the purposes of education. Regards

Fair point Bob. It's reassuring to see some serious martial artists about! Take care Rich

Great post FurryFeet! Just two points on the technical side I wanted to add: A lot of bunkai is multi-levelled so there are multiple interpretations for each move, excluding the daft ones of course. I'm not completely convinced by the example you gave; one reason being that kokutsu dachi doesn't appear to have been a stance used in the original forms according to Okinawan experts. However, the point you make is spot on. Kamae in general...Yes it is very silly to take a stationary kamae to face an opponent. In real life there is usually no time for this anyway but I think its important to look at kamae more deeply. When you are standing or walking you should be in kamae. This is the sum total of your movement and awareness and attitude. People seem to forget or lose the 'open secret' that kamae are not static positions- they are fluid motions. The solidification came partly from written records that originally contained drawings and then later photographs and also because it was easier to teach static postures. In conflict you should be moving through static postures continually not stopping in them and so your karate will be more realistic. Hobbit- I had a girlfriend like that once...oo bad memories there! Yes, Harry Cook is a name to go next to Mr O'Neills in the important figures in Shotokan. Regards Rich

Hi Hobbitbob I dont think we do disagree really- good karate technique is/can be style-less. Nothing in your post conflicts with my views. As I said, and as you have mentioned with different wording, the Japan-izing lead to karate being less practical and this after the Okinawans were reducing it too. To make it effective again requires rediscovering the 'original' forms including bunkai, power generation and a myriad other details. Then any style of karate can be effective, and they become more similar too. You can either rediscover the better ways by real life experience and study and/or finding bunkai/original karate experts to learn from. Any successful karateka will have done that. Its a bit like how chemistry is simplified for youngsters. Some of what is taught is true but explained simplistically and some models are just plain wrong- you have to wait til A Level/University to find out a closer model to reality- and it keeps developing... Regards rich

Dont be palmed off, Flailing Limbs, by the comments of some that Shotokan as its generally taught will help you in a self preservation situation. Shotokan will only help you practice Shotokan. Now as Ive said before if you start to peel away the elements added by firstly the Okinawans when Karate began to be used in schools and then the Japanese changes to make the art more palatable for the many you will start to see more of how Karate really is used. Trust your feelings you are spot on. Try to find out more about kata bunkai and realism training- PM me if necessary. You could also try checking out some of the Shotokan guys who can really 'look after themselves' like the great Terry O'Neill- he has trained with many realism instructors himself- and can pull off techniques that would be suicidal for most so Ive heard! Best of luck- and let the others put their heads back in the sand;) Rich

beermonster - I certainly didnt mean to imply that you are an idiot my friend. I tend to explain things as simply as possible but with enough detail because most people dont know about karate to any great depth. This is a general thing and wasnt aimed specifically at you. I think in general we are more in agreement that not. With regard to the reverse punch I feel it would be worth your while to research the original as I dont think once you have tried it this way you would want to go back to the modern interpretation. Regards Rich

DoktorVet-any decent kick made by someone who intends to do you damage will be near enough unblockable. You need to look to the past to help solve this problem and my first suggestion would be to stop thinking of Uke as a block and think of it more as to receive energy. Regards Rich

Beermonster- if you read my writings carefully you will see that I point out that the original karate was originally an individual style of each master and the same goes for each kata. Having said that they were all trained in an effective way. Modern karate styles do not necessarily retain the effectiveness of the original which is my major point. All the modern styles have done is to take away the effectiveness of the original and they leave people such as yourself having to search through the movements to try to find what actually will work. Gedan Barai is a case in point - how many karateka still believe there is still such a thing as a lower block? If you actually dont know what this is for then you have just proved my point. As for the reverse punch I did not say that there wasnt a punch with the rear hand. Basically, this punch was originally delivered in a different way with much greater force. Again as you dont know about this it shows what modern karate has lost. I would strongly advise that you invested the time and training in finding out how to do this technique effectively because I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Good luck in your training (Am bored with this thread so will see you all in a new one ). Rich

Karate woman, the title was just a bit of a joke really. There was a quite daft thread of the same title a while back amd I used it to try to get a better discussion going, which for the most part happened. White belt, I believe you will find the way back to the original to some degree with a rational approach such as you have. I know it was said in jest but , on a serious note, guns don't necessarily make people more deadly at closer ranges (not just close range either). There is some worrying studies that show well-trained officers missing bad guys completely on frequent occasions and thus allowing them to get too close. I cant remember the percentage but I believe it was 50% misses at least at 11 feet, due to many factors such as movement, adrenalin etc.

Speed is not just achieved through faster limbs. You have identified trying not to telegraph your moves- work with an observant partner on this. Then you need to look at movement in general- how gravity moves you. Keeping the whole body completely relaxed is another key, very difficult to do under pressure. Within those three things are a lifetimes work and particularly point number two is worthy of whole books but will be best discovered through practice. The secret is in walking- and herein Karate and other great Japanese arts and/or masters are doing the same thing. BTW mustn't forget to mention ma-ai. The observed speed between you and your opponent can be manipulated by timing and distancing. You could do worse than start off practising some of Bruce Lees rhythms and attacks to start to gain familiarity. HTH Rich

A well written post by AGKK. However, I must say- and s/he has cleverly pre-empted it in the quote represented here: is that while there is some merit in looking at karate as it now is in the overall terms of those three areas, for those of us who love kata as the rcecord of the 'martial art'of karate we can only look at one of those three areas. It is not a case of anyones backside being gone up but purely a ratinal concern by those of us with genuine experience to practice the art as it was meant for what it was meant, purely and simply. I am not against budo- in fact bujutsu and budo can coexist, and some might say, should co-exist- but our kata is not for tournament judges, or to impress anyone anywhere- it is a storage for bunkai and correct movement for fighting. If you do it for the more modern reasons then fine too although it is not for me. It is arguable whether a karateka can train for tournaments and street at the same time as was rightly pointed out they are different areas requiring different approaches- so too with kata- you must decide what you want out of it and then study accordingly. If for tournament then training as normal- if for fighting taking the moves apart and practising with a partner- a two man kata- with varying degrees of freedom.

OK Andrew. Answer:the guy who took the eye out in the first few seconds standing up and never went to ground. I kid you not as I said we are talking self-preservation not empty handed duelling. Two things. Contrary to some people's skewed statistics the fight doesn't go to ground all the time, in fact decent street fighters will make sure they stay up so again you are thinking sports mentality. Second point NHB train without thought to surface as it is a sport and so in fights they both get rammed into the mat- again you need to change mentality to be more realistic to avoid training this in. Ma-ai? Too long to give anything but a brief synopsis which really wouldn't help- hard training is needed using correct mentality, range etc.to understand. You need to know it in your body not necessarily to chat about it. LOL! Read some of the excellent analyses of predators from the mugger to the drunken yob. Even if out with friends being on the ground is a bad place to be when multiple 'bad' guys are on your case. Not so. Training outside in the environment you may be attacked in is important and the old masters knew this as it was part of life. You can also simulate obstacles by putting them around in the dojo and training around them. A bit of a daft question. Firstly logic suggests so- why start an art that is about fighting, in a violent time, if it doesn't work? Secondly, I know the same way anyone learns anything- study, research, hard training. Karate had it all- it should be easy for you to start finding information to back this up from all the things I've said- check bunkai of katas and you'll see striking, grappling, breaking, locking, choking etc. etc. I am not against modern methods, and neither would the old masters have been. I am not anti-NHB, I quite enjoy it. Sports science is useful- although isn't it funny how they rediscover what some of the old folk have been saying for years in many disciplines from health, nutrition and diet and weight training to name but few? The main difference is attitude, and that dictates how you structure your training- what experiences you go after and how you perceive them. This is where you and the Karateka I have been talking about differ mainly I think. My original reply went on for much longer but I haven't time to rewrite it all. I will stop contributing to this thread here because I will be too busy to give long replies for a while. Please try to understand that I agree that NHB gives training in many necessary attributes- there is just a world of difference between sport, however many rules less it has, and life. (BTW I was quite shocked when the UFC went to gloves as this also skews things. People don't get hurt hands so easy and so can punch harder and longer and so increase the boxing type head injuries we were seeking to avoid- that's modern doctors for you sometimes!) Regards Rich

Ninjanurse- who's not getting the results they want from their training? I was intrigued by that comment but read all the posts and couldn't see anyone that that applied too. Please explain. rich

Warmaster- I don't believe you need a more comprehensive system but a simple, fairly easily learnable one that covers as many situations as possible with the simplest of training. As you will know in a real fight when there is no-one to stop it from going to a nasty conclusion you lose fine motor co-ordination along with an adrenalin dump and here the old KISS maxim is applicable. In terms of CQB fashions can't you soldiers feedback up the line that you need something different and point out that the manual makers seem to be more academic than pragmatic- point out too that they seem to follow the art of the moment as much as the MA publications do. Regards Rich