Treebranch

Wow. That's pretty arrogant of you. I can tell you for a fact that my uncle, comepletely untrained, has beaten a karate black belt in a one-one-one unarmed fight. Not just some guy claiming a black belt, a man who was known for being very good at the art. My uncle grew up a fighter, is a big guy, and is fast for his size. This doesn't mean he is proud of it, he actually admits to having a bit of a big mouth that gets him into trouble. The point is, training isn't everything. There are an infinite number of variables involved in fighting. Thank You!

There are a few ways to do neck breaks. One is basically a standing RNC where their head is kept very close to your chest and you drop your weight straight down while applying the choke so to crank the head forward sheering the cervical spine. The other is a traditional neck break where you twist the persons head to break the neck. Then there are countless ways to set someone up for a knife hand to the trachea. Other ways include throws that cause the person to land on the top part of their head which could break the but will split the skull if on hard surface. Also there are a multitude of lethal techniques with weapons.

I think only learning lethal techniques is useless unless that's your job (hitman). Otherwise most MA's teach both as far as I understand. The difference is the way we are taught is to know both ways of doing things so that you have options. If you don't practice them at all you won't know when they can be used against you. So it's better to know them than not to know them. Lethal means deadly right?

So you are telling me there are no naturally talented people in general? So do you know anyone that has less training than you and somehow picks things up faster than most? Or is naturally faster and has better reflexes than you? I know and meet people like that all the time and I'm glad they are friendly towards me. There are people that just have a natural edge and if your not on your game that day it may not go well for you. If you want to claim no untrained fighter has beat the holy crud out of someone trained you are living in denial. Never underestimate anyone, period.

Sure I agree with your logic and see what you are getting at. The thing is some people who have grown up fighting in the streets since childhood has real experience and not just training experience. These people fight on the street not in a dojo or ring and they might be a little mental. The intent in the ring is not to kill but to win, to be a sportsman not a thug. So I would say it is bad to under estimate anyone. Even if you are highly trained your confidence and pride can be used against you. Also, there are people who don't conventionally train to run, but run everyday and are fast or can run long distances. Some of these people are not interested in the sport, but possibly have more natural talent than most. Basically I'm saying that being cautious is safer than being overconfident.

Yeah, I hear he wants to take on Silva now. That's gonna be good.

I think the real issue is that men are afraid of such a woman, epecially if she is attractive. But yeah, your right Justice Zero.

Very cool, thanks.

Liddell has a Kempo background is that right? He has a tattoo on his shoulder the says Kempo. Does anyone know?

I don't know if I can beat a street fighter or not but I know that I could survive. I wouldn't want to necessarily win, just not die. I think there are too many variables and a real thug always has a weapon so it's hard to say.

That's exactly right.

Yeah when you have someone in your closed guard and they punch down on you. With your left hand push their right arm past your head while pulling their weight forward with your legs. You right arm should be in between their neck and their left shoulder. Clasp your hands and hug him tight and the triangle is created with your arms. It works really well and it happens fast.

Are you guys talking about the triangle choke with the legs or arms from the guard? You can do both if you catch them just right. The triangle with the legs works great when they are trying to pass and the one with arms works great when they are trying to punch down on you.

I don't know man I think warfare is far more brutal than a contest, unless the contest is to the death. The last Grandmaster of BT faught in death matches and won with the system I'm learning today. I think if I was to fight in the ring it would be really hard for me not to cheat, because what we are taught to do. Training for the ring has different specifics than Combat MA's focus on. I still do drills and sparring just like anyone else, but with different ideas in mind. I'm not trying to win a fight with set rules, I don't want to just trade punches. I'm trying to find this moments in stand up fighting that BJJ goes find on the ground to lock someone up. Of course using strikes to create the locks works best. The Aikido way is too soft and striking is a very effect way of making someone more cooperative to employs locks and throws. The thing that sport arts came from TMA's and since we live in a fairly civilized society we don't need to know how to kill with our hands, we use a gun. So saying that Sport MA's are going to seem more plausable and practical to most people. Face it most people who get in fights just want to beat the person up, not kill them. But that doesn't mean that any style can't be used to do so. Just that some MA's are created for certain purposes that really can't be tested anymore. You can only test the set allowed skills which pretty much makes MA's adapt to competitive type MA's. I still think that what I'm learning is a priviledge and my fighting skills have improved tremendously in a short time. Let me make one point I see that is wrong with Boxing. If you employed a guard more like that of the bare knuckle fighters, you'd get hit less. They kept the arm out there for a reason, it was a shield. When gloves came into play, because of regulations they brought the guard in closer to the face so to make the sport more exciting. So since NHB is closer to bare knuckle fighting they should put the lead arm further out. Plus striking without gloves is different than striking with gloves. You can't hit hard areas of the body or head with a bare fist. You will risk breaking your hands. So in many ways the bare knuckle fighters fought closer to real combat than boxers do today. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think it's safe to disregard the past and assume what we have is better. I say look at both and try to look at thing in context.

Yeah do boxers spar bare knuckled? It's silly, the way train Budo Taijutsu is the we train in BJJ, it's not that different. I'm not breaking peoples arms in BJJ either, so how do I know the armbar will break an arm? It's pretty obvious, but I guess not to people who don't know how to do the techniques. The techniques aren't that hard to pull off if you understand how to manipulate balance while grappling in the standing position. Most people think it's fancy, but even if you saw it done you probably wouldn't see what was really happening. Just like most people don't see the subtle movements in BJJ, they just see the end result. Believe what you want but it doesn't make you right. If anyone wants to come to my school and feel a modified version of these locks let me know. I like when people come from other disciplines, they may bring something new with them. Remember, closed minds don't grow.

Gumbi you are only talking about unarmed contests right? Your aren't saying that these fighters are equivalent to the warriors of old are you? Killing and fighting are very different and fighting in a battle and fighting in the ring are completely different, but of course you know that right? So do you really think people who had to fight to survive couldn't fight as well as a modern sport MA?

All martial arts should be that way. It means more when it takes that much time and discipline to get a BB. Too many arts hand them out too early and it doesn't really mean much if someone can get a BB in a few years. I myself only care about learning and knowing what I can do, the belt just hold my gi top closed.

Exactly. You really have to understand what the lock is going to do to the person before you start playing full-contact. It is too easy get the lock on slip a little and "snap". That's why it takes extra control not to hurt someone with this stuff. It's not really designed to submit, it's designed to break and tear. I'm not trying to hype it up by saying it's dangerous. Fighting in itself is dangerous and this is just part of fighting.

Who said I didn't practice against resisting opponents? I've pulled off many of these throws with boxing gloves on, I think it would be easier without the gloves, but I don't think my training partners want to get hit without protection. The hardest part is not getting the lock on, it's keeping your head when your being attacked. My philosophy is train your body to respond to changes and keep your head to know what to do with the changes. It's the same way we practice BJJ. We learn techniques, locks, submissions, escapes and then we try them. Sometimes you pull off a lock on one person and couldn't on some other person. I don't really see any differences in the way we train Budo Taijutsu. I will say standing stuff is a little harder to pull off, but that's where training comes in. You can disagree if you want, but I'll be stubborn and keep training.

Sure you can practice them half speed so that your training partner can protect themselves. You can do these with out breaking the arm, but I wouldn't recommend doing it full force in practice. Look let's face it real fighting and combat was used for life and death situations that's way you have to modify techniques to make it a sport. For example in BJJ, the arm bar can be used for submission and breaking but since you are both on the ground and can't really go anywhere if you get the lock on correctly. But if you are standing it is much riskier to try to submit someone. TJS why wouldn't you break the arm or wrist in a real situation? Besides if you know anything about real fighting it's almost impossible to get a lock on until you've softened them up with some strikes first. Anyone that's willing to let me do these throws and locks on them for real, just let me know. That way TJS will believe that they can actually be done.

See here is where the problem is. JJJ throws are really designed to break the arm or shoulder, etc.. when you use these throws. So not going to ground with the opponent is smart if you are worried about someone else getting into it with you. You've broken one guys arm from the get go and don't have to worry to much about the guy, unless he's insane or something. It is much harder to throw someone while trying not to break their arm. Locks should thought of as strikes, the strikes create the locks, and locks are really breaks. That's why submission artists can fight effectively in a competition format and we can't. It's just too difficult to have that much patient and control with these types of techniques.

Not that they can't be adapted, but the question is why nobody trains them that way? Most Judo thows are done this way, but I guess there not alot of Judo guys doing MMA's that's probably why you don't see it that often?

Mr Pockets I'm in BJJ and never once has anyone mentioned balance points or any other throws besides basic judo throws. This is something that takes awhile to learn but is really useful. I think it is so worth the time to explore more throws and strikes from the clinch where you don't go down but they do. Most throws is MMA you go down with your opponent, but our throws leave you standing and them on their back. Think of what you could do from that position.

My hand is my money maker so risking breaking it is out of the question. I'd love to play with some of those guys and learn a few things.

We love the clinch, there are 101 ways of taken someone down from there also lots effective close range strikes from there.