JR 137

Solid posts...hit on all of the cylinders!! Most Hombu is designed to MANAGE THE BRAND!! Seeing that this letter was from that hypothetical Hombu to recruit a instructor FOR that Hombu, they've the rights and responsibilities to govern their staff in order to protect the student body AND the brand. The conditions are set forth to protect the brand at all costs!! Rules and regulations are amended from time to time because someone and/or something violated the sanctity of the brand some how and some way. The brand MUST BE PROTECTED!! Reminds me of a situation in my previous organization... One dojo taught another striking art alongside the main art. A group of students went to the honbu to test, and every single one of them made the same mistakes repeatedly. Kihon was altered, and those techniques carried over into kata. The head of the organization and instructors at the test started correcting students, until it became painfully obvious that it was a school-wide thing. The head of the organization pulled that dojo's CI aside and let him hear it (in semi-private). He reluctantly passed the students, as they were doing exactly what they were told by their CI. They didn't know any better. He told the CI if it ever happens again, the students will all fail, and he'll be out. I remember hearing something along the lines of 'if what we do isn't right, find another organization.'

It seems like perhaps someone is doing things they don't want done, hence the letter. Maybe someone's teaching another art alongside of yours, and the students aren't fully/adequately prepared? Maybe someone's altering standardized stuff, and the students are getting held back for performing how they were taught without knowing that what they're doing isn't what's been taught everywhere else? Just playing devil's advocate. Seems someone somewhere is messing up, and the honbu is trying to correct with blanket statements and policies rather than pulling the person/people aside and questioning them behind closed doors. Or they did that and now want to be proactive before it becomes a problem again. Or maybe tell someone "we told you verbally, now we told you in writing. If it keeps up, you're out." Things like this usually stem from one or two people who can't seem to follow the rules, in my experience. When I see stuff like this in my line of work, I usually get aggravated, then move on to business as usual.

Gis made of Japanese cotton like Shureido and Tokaido typically don't change color like that. According to my tailor, that light blue tint they have the first few washings is ultraviolet brightener, which keeps it from changing colors. I had a Shureido K-10 that I wore for about 4 years. Wore it 4-5 times a week, many times 2 classes back to back. Never changed color. My 6 month old KI heavyweight gi is starting to turn yellow under the armpits and has a grayish tint to it after 6 months of use. I've heard that the water quality has something to do with this as well. If there's a high concentration of naturally occurring stuff in the water, I believe it makes it worse.

I really like that episode. Hajime Kazumi's change of viewpoint really stood out to me. The other episodes in the series are good too, but that one's my favorite of the series. Another excellent one is Tee: The Spirit of Okinawan Karate. Sums up the why of kata and karate in general very well IMO.

Agree with you there, never do any point sparring at all in our dojo, it's all free sparring at an agreed level of intensity, typically leaving me with plenty of bruises to reflect on for the rest of the week.................. I think what happens is people see 1 video on YouTube or the like and assume that's all everyone does, and all the organization consists of. Kind of like seeing the Kyokushin Open tourneys and thinking that's all there is to Kyokushin. Or watching an old style like Goju doing kata and thinking that's all they do.

No such thing as a non-contact martial art? Tell that to these guys... Quoted from http://www.wmakarate.com/rates-policies "2) Do not spar unless under the supervision of the Instructor. During Free Style Sparring, NO OFFENSIVE CONTACT is allowed at any time. There are no kicks to the head, face, neck or groin area allowed. Contact shall be limited to the execution of a defensive move (Countering) during Free Style or Three-Step Sparring practice; provided however, that such defensive moves are properly executed with control and not intended to cause physical injury. NO CONTACT is allowed at any time except as set forth above." What does that look like at the higher levels? This is allegedly a 5th dan test (not being sarcastic with the allegedly part; that's what it said)... No copyrights that I saw in the video, posted the link to my quote, and didn't take more than a fair amount. I'm trying to get this right

Quite funny IMO. I've seen people bash Seido on several forums, saying its McDojo point sparring, Nakamura has gotten soft in his old age, he's sold out, etc. just because it's not bare knuckle anymore. He simply got tired of very good people getting injured constantly and being unable to train for weeks and months on end, and good people leaving because they were someone's punching bag for their first few years. Then people see the annual Seido benefit tournament on YouTube and think that that's what we train for all year long. Complete nonsense. The tournament is a charity fundraiser, and it's a way to have fun, bring people from different places together, and break up the day to day monotony. There is a small group of people who seem to live for the point sparring in the tournament, but they're such a minority, they're statistically almost non-existent. As far as level of contact, we free-spar and we determine the level individually. My teacher always says "I have no problem with people wanting to go hard. I encourage it. But remember who's in front of you, know their level of comfort, and don't hit harder than you're willing to get hit." There's several people I like to mix it up with. I usually lose to them, if there was a score card. There's also people there who aren't there for that, and I get as technical as possible with them, and try to do all the things I'm bad at/need to improve on. Makes for a very good mix, if you ask me. Going on 8 months in my dojo, and I haven't seen nor heard of point fighting once. My previous school competed in 1 series of point fighting tournaments every year (AAU local, regional, and national). We had a separate dedicated class for that, added on on Saturday afternoons for anyone interested. It didn't take the place of anything else, nor did it elevate your status in the dojo or rank. If all you saw was the small group competing, you'd probably think that's all we did.

People who don't want ANY contact. Makes sense if they're in a non-contact system, but Seido is a contact system. It's not bare knuckle, but it's definitely not tap sparring either. I've encountered these individuals my first time around and this time around; in my dojo and other dojos in both organizations. My previous system was founded by 2 former Seido and Kyokushin karateka. There's a young lady at my current dojo who drives me crazy with this. She's a great person, but I hate sparring with her. She stands at least 2 feet out of striking range, and throws countless punches and kicks. I don't bother blocking 99% of them because they have zero chance of landing. I go in to attack/counter, and I see that look in her eyes. It's not a look of fear, it's a look of aggravation. I pull my techniques and end up tapping, but even that seems like too much for her. We do some non-contact sparring now and then, and she'll be at the proper range. Whenever I block something, she takes this annoying voice and says "no contact." I don't block hard; I just lightly push the strike away. I usually say "I have to block." Her eyes roll, and my CI always follows with "yes, he needs to block" whenever he hears her say it. I wonder what she'll say when she tests for shodan at our honbu as she's now a 1st kyu. I understand everyone has their comfort levels and issues. I get everyone has to progress at their own pace. Just because I want to be hit hard doesn't mean everyone else does nor should. When someone hits me as hard as I think they should, it forces me out of my comfort zone and makes me have to react. It forces me to be sharp. I'm not some animal who goes around hitting everyone as hard as I can. Other than a few people who complain that everyone hits them too hard, I've never had someone complain. But if you've been in a system for a few years that has contact, not wanting anyone to touch you is absurd. Rant over.

Very well stated. What works for one person doesn't work for another, and what works for one person on one person doesn't work for that same person on a different person. IMO there's no such thing as incorrect bunkai. Perhaps bunkai that's not nearly as good as other interpretations, no no incorrect bunkai. According to Chojun Miyagi's successor, Miyagi tailored kata to the student's body type, strengths and weaknesses. What does that say about his view on bunkai and kata in general?

Judo. Most founders of the major schools had dan ranking in it. Gotta be good for something

Personally, I don't feel that I need religious studies (or religion for that matter) to make me a better person. I lead a fairly active lifestyle and have a good diet, so I don't need exercise classes. Haven't been to many seminars but the ones I have been to did nothing for me. Most importantly however, I do not live a life where my primary need is knowing I can defend myself. I live in a safe area within one of the safest countries in the world so for me, Karate hasn't been for that purpose either. I do however enjoy and thrive on the acquisition and honing of skills. In other words realising the more comprehensive meaning behind Budo. Remember, styles of Karate like Shotokan are Japanese in their structure (rather than Okinawan) - and as a result, the focus and the values are different. K. Again, I think we're closer in opinion that a forum will inherently allow. I study Seido Juku, a style founded by Tadashi Nakamura, who's teacher was Mas Oyama, founder of Kyokushin. Nakamura left Kyokushin for several reasons; most notably he felt the moral aspects/values of karate were being ignored, and Kyokushin was becoming all about competition. Seido has a strong meditative and holistic side to it. But at its core, the physical techniques are all about self defense. All those qualities are what keep me there rather than going to other arts that are great but I feel have little real-world self defense value. I'm not bashing them in any way and I have a ton of respect for them and understand why people study them, but I don't have much interest in kendo, iado, fencing, etc.

Or ineffective until the practitioner makes them effective. How effective is nukite? Not effective at all unless you condition your hands and know where to strike and not strike with it. Or is it effective, but the practitioner makes it ineffective by not conditioning and striking wrong targets? Which came first, the chicken, or the egg?

Shotokan, as a system, is there to get people good at Shotokan Karate- not necessarily to improve your ability to defend yourself - that's not its raison d'etre. Yes, there is a cross over, but by focusing on self defence you are at risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The ongoing study of a martial art is much more holistic. K. Sorry to chop up your post; if I could bold text without butchering it, I'd have done that instead... I haven't studied Shotokan specifically, so I can't comment on it as such, however I think the point in karate as a whole is self defense and self improvement. A big part of the self improvement is knowing that you can defend yourself adequately (or better), and therefore have nothing to prove, thereby helping you walk away everytime it's possible to do so. Yes, technically speaking, fighting and self defense aren't the same thing, but I personally view them as one in the same because I have no desire to fight. My "let's step outside" days are over. Been there, done that, and I'm not proud of it. Luckily none of their friends followed us out, luckily none of the people that went onside had a gun or knife concealed. Luckily... a lot of things. People can make fighting and self defense out to be entirely different animals, but it's different for every person. What isn't different is a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, a choke is a choke, a grab is a grab, and on and on ad neaseum. Physical techniques aren't the only aspect of self defense, but all techniques should be usable self defense techniques. There are some techniques I don't foresee ever throwing in self defense, such as nukite/spear hand, but that's because I don't train them the way they need to be trained to be effective. If I did Okinawan-type conditioning of my finger tips, then it would be a realistic option for me. I started my journey in karate for self defense. I've continued and stayed for that reason as well. Yes, there's other reasons as well - health benefits, stress relief, self betterment, and so on that also keep me going, but take away the self defense, and I'm out. There's far better ways of achieving the others IMO. Religious studies, group exercise classes, self improvement seminars and books, and so on. Everyone's journey is different. Mine is correct for me as of now. Yours is correct for you as of now. But to be honest, I think we're a lot closer in our paths than words in a forum can ever show.

A recreation center is a great way to go, they advertise for you and there's no rent, they just take a cut. FYI if you ever go that route Mentally filed for future reference. There's several Seido schools in NYC that operate out of YMCAs. Another trend I've noticed recently is different instructors in different styles teaching out of the same dojo, i.e. MWF BJJ, Tues Thurs Muay Thai, with another art thrown in. Not an MMA approach, but different people splitting the overhead, or others renting a few days from another like a sublet.

This may be quite difficult given his current predicament. K. Just read the current Wikipedia page about him. He most likely won't be available for questions until around 2022. I don't know how it works in the UK, but his type don't do well in prison here in the States. I guess he's finding out the hard way on a regular basis if what he learned and taught was realistic or not.

Agreed. However, videos of even the most hardcore traditionalists in Okinawa do drills directly related to kata. While they may not be free-sparring, they're going pretty close to full speed with the attack and defense. And there's heavy contact if you don't "receive" the attack correctly. Too many "traditionalists" here in the US think kata alone is what they do. From what I've seen in videos and heard from first hand accounts, it's not the case. In an interview with "the man who inherited Miyagi's belt," (can't remember his name of the top of my head; he was Miyagi's top student), he stated that Miyagi didn't teach students their first kata (Sanchin) for about 3 years after they started. What does this mean? A lot of the so called traditionalists who think kata from day one on is "the way" haven't done their history homework. actually, one is suppose to do stretching for months before even learning techniques. If i had it my way, students would do only a few techniques and only learn new techniques as they perfect the basic one first. BUT.............................. if i taught how i really wanted, there would only be 5 students left since everyone would quit or be injured. I have been to two very well known dojo's(not my style) in Okinawa. Would love to train in that type of dojos. The feeling of wood floors and the history of the dojo was very "sacred". One Sensei actually brought out a very old "BOOK" with the "tree" of students and instructors that were connected to that dojo and got very emotional about some "X" out instructors. The traditional Okinawan Dojo take Karate and lineage very seriously. I'd love to travel to Okinawa and train, but living on school teachers' salary (my wife an I both teach) won't make that possible any time soon. And there's a huge difference between training on wood floors and mats. My old sensei relocated three times during my original run. The first dojo was wood floors, the second was mats, and the third was wood again. We all loved having the wood floor back. As stupid as it sounds, especially for rolling/falling during sweeps. It made it far more realistic and let you know when you made a mistake. And I'm with you when you talk about teaching a handful of techniques, waiting for mastery of them, then moving on afterward. This is how I teach my middle school science students. It drives my boss crazy because she thinks at that level it's all about exposure to the content rather than mastery. I get it and respect that way of thinking; she thinks they'll get the depth at higher levels. She drops her respectful disagreement when the results of my students' standardized tests come back and they've all shown very strong skills. I'd much rather mastery of 10 topics in a year than superficial exposure to 20 topics in the same timeframe. Karate is no different in this regard IMO.

Agreed. However, videos of even the most hardcore traditionalists in Okinawa do drills directly related to kata. While they may not be free-sparring, they're going pretty close to full speed with the attack and defense. And there's heavy contact if you don't "receive" the attack correctly. Too many "traditionalists" here in the US think kata alone is what they do. From what I've seen in videos and heard from first hand accounts, it's not the case. In an interview with "the man who inherited Miyagi's belt," (can't remember his name of the top of my head; he was Miyagi's top student), he stated that Miyagi didn't teach students their first kata (Sanchin) for about 3 years after they started. What does this mean? A lot of the so called traditionalists who think kata from day one on is "the way" haven't done their history homework.

I figured it was at his dojo in Phoenix or the surrounding area. To add to Sensei's post, where were the presenters from? How many presenters? How many non-presenting students? Cost?

Most traditional Karate schools tend to base their syllabus on Kata. This may be hard to grasp (particularly as a newbie), but you need to stop trying to make a lateral connection between what you are currently practicing and self defence. The pedagogy of any Kata based system (and not just Karate) is a layered approach to learning the system itself. By this, I mean in your particular dojo, you are there to learn Shotokan, in a Shotokan way by using Shotokan kata etc. etc. BTW, most of us have a tendency to assume Kata are just the like of Heian Shodan etc., but actually, Kata is anything that is pre-arranged (including pair work and Basics (kihon). In this respect, strictly speaking - in Karate there is only Kata and Kumite. The Pedagogy of systems like Shotokan is there to realise "Shu Ha Ri" i.e. the journey an individual takes from Kata (fixed practice) to Kumite (free fighting). And as I tell folk who enquire to come and train at my dojo... If you want to learn self defence - go to a self defence class. K. I agree with everything but the last sentence. Isn't the point of karate self defense? Not that that's the only point. But the student should be able to come away from even the first class with some self defense training. If I were to start my own school/system, I'd probably start with the basics of self defense - awareness, etc., basic ways to move and strike, etc., then get into kata and the real meaning. I think too many people walk away almost immediately thinking they've been there for a month and didn't learn anything practical. I could be way off. I'll tell you how it goes when I start my own system

I'd love it if someone did something like that in my neck of the woods. Too many egos in a relatively small area. The Albany-Schenectady-Troy area has a little under 900,000 people (number seems a bit high to me), with MA schools everywhere, and just about every CI does everything right and the rest do everything wrong. My old sensei does this type of thing, but the presenters are pulled from further away for the most part, and he doesn't advertise it; it's open to his and the other presenters' students. I think he hosts one a year, and it's usually a 1 day thing.

The best thing I've read in quite some time. The same can be said when people complain about the selling, giving away of, or questionable self-promotion of rank.

I was going to respond a few times, but got side tracked each time. The more you type, the more I want to tell you you should look at other schools. Way too many red flags for me. At the end of the day, the most important thing is the training, aka "the proof is on the floor." If the training feels right, that's all that matters. If you find yourself looking for justifications, it's a good sign that you won't be their for the long-haul.

From my limited knowledge of it, Shotokan is very kata heavy. But kata shouldn't be the only thing training consists of. Just because everything is based on kata doesn't meant all you do is kata. It should be learn/physically memorize the movements to a basic level of proficiency, learn basic bunkai (applications), do drills from the kata/bunkai, work on improving your kata (sharpen it up), learn more advanced bunkai, more in-depth drills, rinse, lather, repeat. I unfortunately don't see this in too many Shotokan schools in my neck of the woods. Without realistic bunkai, kata is pretty much pointless IMO. To be honest, my dojo doesn't do enough bunkai. We do other things that are actually related to stuff found in kata (even a few advanced students haven't made the outright connection!*), we do other self defense type stuff and drills and free sparring, so I'm don't feel short changed by any means. * We were working on prearranged self defense techniques involving various sweeps and takedowns. One of them involves groin punch, then that hand/arm comes behind the knee while the other arm hits across the waist. The arm behind the knee and arm across the waist creates a scissors effect, taking someone down pretty hard, especially when combined with a shoulder bump. Very hard to explain until I tell you where it's from - the last counts of Pinan 5/Heian Godan. The step into zen at 45, bottom hand palm up nukite, top arm across the chest and hand over the shoulder, then the next count is that snapping motion of gedan brai and the other arm up like you're flexing your bicep in kiba dachi. I was working with a nidan and brown belt, and I said "just visualize Pinan 5's ending, then follow up with a punch." Both of their eyes widened in shock. Was it really that hard? A YouTube video would have been so much easier for me to describe it. I don't have the patience to video tape it. Maybe one day.

Get a chance to look it over yet? The suspense of your opinion is killing me. Hopefully I didn't talk you into throwing $25 down the drain.

What style karate do you study, as in shotokan, goju ryu, etc.? Some styles focus heavily on kata, and don't do much free-sparring. Others focus heavily on free-sparring and kata is more of an afterthought, relatively speaking. IMO, performing kata without application is pretty much pointless. I wouldn't stick around very long if it seemed like all I was doing is kata without any meaning behind it, but that's just me. 5 months isn't terribly long to be in any martial art. But there must be some sort of 'reward' or 'this is why we do this.' It's not the era where Chojun Miyagi (founder of Goju Ryu) had his students do manual labor without compensation or teaching them for 3 years to see who was worthy. You're paying for the training, and it should be what you want. That doesn't mean make threats and demands; it means if you're not getting what you feel you should be getting, respectfully ask the teacher. If you don't like the response or you feel you're being given lip service, find another place to train. The dojo shouldn't change what they do for one person, and the one person shouldn't be obligated to stay or wait around for something that probably won't materialize. Patience is a virtue, but is your patience worthwhile?