JR 137

Haven't heard from you for a while. How's it going? Getting all settled in? How's attendance?

I know the thread's been inactive for a little while now... How long is the season? When does it start and end? What do your boys do in the off season? I've lurked here quite a bit.

Welcome to the forum. I kind of had two first days. My first first day was when you was 18, so 22 years ago. I was and wasn't nervous at the same time. My girlfriend at the time started a month or 2 before I did, and I watched her a few times before I started. I knew what to expect. It was a one on one lesson for the first half hour with a senior student. She taught me the protocol so to speak; where to line up, how to bow, what the stuff meant, etc. After that I joined class for the rest of the hour. I honestly don't remember much of that part. My second first day was a year and a half ago. I'd been out of karate for 15 years and restarted at a dojo that was very similar to my old one. I was excited and a bit nervous. Not nervous about what anyone would think of me, but nervous about how I'd do; I wanted to pick up where I left off. I started at white belt and earned every belt all over again. I had 2 left feet and 2 left hands. In hindsight I did pretty good for being away that long. I remembered most of it, but my body didn't listen to my brain very well. And I was pretty sore the next day or two. The most important class is your next class. Don't get hung up on where you started. Don't get too high my up about where you are today. Just try to be better your next class. Keep at it and stick around here. Lots of great people with a ton of quality experience and insight that enjoy sharing all of that hang out here.

I think the best source for information on this would be your instructor. There are many organizations that don't have an internet presence. Your instructor should be able to tell you about size of the organization, history, lineage, etc.

Very good video. So much for kata being a worthless dance with stupid poses.

If they don't have beginner classes, how do students start their training? Not trying to be a wise guy here. Beginner classes may not be taught by the head honcho, but without beginners, the art dies. Obviously if we didnt have beginners there would be no art. I know many dojos that operate only 1 class for all grades, so 1 juniors class and 1 seniors class. So it does depend on the teacher. I misread your post. I somehow stupidly thought you said they didn't teach beginners. No idea how I thought that one.

If they don't have beginner classes, how do students start their training? Not trying to be a wise guy here. Beginner classes may not be taught by the head honcho, but without beginners, the art dies.

I could see a game of 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon, err White Crane, in karate's current heads of state being quite possible.

There is a company that sets up training in Okinawa for visitors/tourists. The man behind the scenes of it was on a documentary called Tee: The Spirit of Okinawan Karate. Search for the documentary, it was quite good. If it's worth going or not is a personal thing. No one knows your finances nor time commitments other than you. Speaking to the gentleman who arranges trips should answer more questions than we can. Here's a website link... http://okkb.org There are also seminars periodically which bring together many different masters in Okinawa to one place in Okinawa for several days. May be worth considering instead of training under one person the entire time. If you've got the money and time, why not? If this is a once in a lifetime thing for you that you can do down the road at any point (within reason), you may want to hold off until you've got more experience in karate. Since you're a Shotokan student, have you considered going to a Shotokan dojo in Japan? I'm not a Shotokan guy and I have no idea if it's possible, but I'd be very surprised if one of the Shotokan bodies didn't have something in place for foreign students to come and work out. Shotokan is huge.

There are inherent pros and cons in having rank and testing for rank. There are inherent pros and cons for having rank and not testing for rank. There are also inherent pros and cons for not having rank at all. The only time when any of those scenarios is wrong is when the cons continually outweigh the pros for every, yet the teacher keeps doing it anyway. Every teacher is different, every organization is different, and every school within the same organization has a different atmosphere. Saying what I'm doing is right and what everyone else is doing is wrong doesn't make any sense. being a school teacher, I found out the hard way that every group is different and I can't teach the same material the same way to every group. What matters most is what approach the group responds the best to. In MA, if the group responds best when a rank system is used, use it. If the group doesn't respond to it, scrap it. As long as the end product is the same (proficiency), one way or another is irrelevant. All IMO.

A lot of the early karateka reportedly studied White Crane Kung Fu (along with other forms of Kung fu), and adapted the principles to mould their style of karate. Miyagi Chojun reportedly studied some white crane... "Tensho was influenced by the White Crane kata Ryokushu, which he learned from his long-time friend Gokenki." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chōjun_Miyagi Many of the founders of karate studied under Chinese Kung Fu masters; some in China, some in Okinawa. White Crane comes up quite often, and possibly more often than any other style, but it's not the only one. As usualtraveler said, what is "good karate?" I think understanding the principles of the systems that influenced karate definitely helps one better understand their current system, but so does understanding principles of seemingly unrelated systems.

I should add... Each division was separated by rank in kyu divisions. The 24 people in my division were all 4th kyu. Black belt kumite and breaking is separated by weight classes (kata competition was dan grade specific). Yondan and up may have been separated in kumite if there were enough to do so. I think they were, but don't hold me to that.

We use Seido rules. I competed in a few AAU tournaments a long time ago, and it was basically the same. A few notable differences than other tournaments... Kata must be from our syllabus with no variation, and must be commensurate with rank. You can't do a higher belt rank kata, and a 1 belt rank lower kata is acceptable if you just promoted. One person did a 5th kyu kata (we were all 4th kyu), but he just promoted 2 weeks beforehand. Judges don't ask when that happens, but it's assumed that that's the case. Kumite was 2 minute continuous time rather than 3 points (time stopped to award points). No half points. Everyone fought 2 matches, regardless of the outcome. Due to the size of the tournament and event itself, there wasn't placing. All competitors' points were added to team scores. Seido's annual tournament is an individual tournament with elimination brackets and individuals placing. This was a week-long event for our 40th anniversary, with the tournament being held at the end. People were placed into teams, and the teams earned points for various things all week. The team with the most points from the entire event was awarded commemorative medals. This was reportedly how the 30th anniversary event was run too (I wasn't in the organization then, but it's what I heard). The event had just under 1,000 Seido karateka attend, with students from dojos from all over the world there. In my division alone we had people from US, Japan, NZ, Australia, Chile, Poland, and India. The annual tournament is smaller, and most competitors are from a few hour radius of New York. You'll get a few people from outside that area because they're making the trek to our honbu and/or are visiting NYC, but it's not like this event.

The event was a great experience. Let me get the bad out of the way... I was reminded why I don't like point fighting. I had that same feeling I had years ago (the last time I did it). Both gentlemen I faced were quite good, am I don't mean to take anything away from them. Against the first person I faced, I landed a few punches, but didn't score a single point. He had this very deceptive long reach, and combined with his timing, landed a single clean shot repeatedly whenever I came in. I got frustrated and over anxious, and kept trying too hard to get inside his reach, and he rightfully took full advantage of it as the clock wore down. Two other guys and I were talking about how his reach killed me when they called me and my next opponent up... I faced the tallest guy in the building next. Walking onto the floor, I had to shake my head and laugh inside. He was about 6'5. I'm 5'8. My strategy was to stay just outside his range, then get inside quick and counter. It was just way too much distance to cover. I lost 3-1. His first 2 points didn't come close to connecting. Walking off, he asked me if they landed. My response "I didn't want to say it because it would sound wrong, but they weren't close." We couldn't figure out how all 5 judges (each corner and center) awarded the point. We both laughed that we both landed stuff that didn't count, so it was what it was. The kata competition was the highlight for me. I placed 3rd out of 24 (that wasn't the best part). The top 2 were outstanding. Both were New Zealand guys. The top guy did Seido III, which is a kata full of roundhouse kicks into and out of kokutsu dachi. That guy's foot seemed like it went a good 12 inches above his head, and it wasn't because he was leaning. I asked him how does he kick like that, and he laughed and said he used to be a dancer. I did as good as I realistically expected to do. The only mistake I think I made was one foot slipped a very little bit going into my first kiba dachi at the beginning of the kata. But even if I didn't, it wouldn't have been enough to beat the top 2 guys anyway. I was pretty happy with my performance. I got 4 9+ scores, which isn't very common at kyu ranks. The real highlight was sitting and watching the other guys during kata and discussing it with the guys next to me. We were all positive, and gave each other great feedback when we came off. At no point did it feel like a competition; we were just doing our thing and cheering each other on (we were quiet while people were performing). So I guess I didn't come near meeting my expectations during kumite, and it met them during kata. The people were great, my wife and kids were there, we had fun and turned it into a weekend vacation. But all in all, training for it was the best part. Sorry Bulltahr, no pics. My wife was too far away to get anything decent, and her photography skills are atrocious even when she's close enough. Seriously, I don't think I've seen a worse photographer before.

You too, JR 137, were missed! You had to do what you had to do; life does get in the darn way at the worse times. Btw, how did the tourney turn out for you?? Turned out pretty good. I'll post about it in my thread when I get a bit of time.

I'm watching it now. About an hour or so into it. Very cool so far. Sorry I couldn't make it on. I was competing in a tournament, and was actually getting beat up on during the tentative time Patrick gave me. I thought I'd have an hour or so before I would have come on, but the tournament was behind schedule (aren't they always?). It figures... The one time I decide to compete is the one time I'm asked to do something like this.

The 2004 basketball team the won bronze, not gold. They could have been the most disappointing team ever.

I'm going to do my best to get into the live stream. As far as the tournament goes... I've had a great time training for it. I'm in great shape (for me anyway:) ), and I've improved on a lot of things that I've been working on that'll carry over when the point fighting stuff is over and done with. One of my biggest self criticisms is I feel like I back up and let my opponent finish their combination before countering too often. I've really worked on moving forward with the block and countering simultaneously rather than going back and forth with my opponent. I think I've improved a ton in this area, as I was really mindful of it initially while hitting the heavy bag, and forcing myself to do it during sparring. I got caught quite a bit at first, but after making some adjustments on my own and my seniors and teachers giving great pointers, I've really come a long way with it IMO. Gotta keep at it! Training for the tournament has been great. It's been the most fun I've had in the dojo in quite some time. If I do horribly on Saturday, I'll have no regrets. But I'm glad this phase will be over on Saturday, as I think it would start to get old sooner than later. Going to give it my all and leave it all on the floor. I've got my daughters and wife in my corner. That's all I need. The judges don't matter, and I'm not competing against anyone but myself. My only goal is to surpass my own expectations; I can't control how good or bad the competition can/will be. That and make some new Seido friends and represent my dojo and teachers the best I can.

Matsui (IKO Kyokushinkaikan Kancho) is catching a lot of flack for partnering up with them from the other Kyokushin groups, most notably Shinkyokushin guys. There's bad blood between those two groups anyway, and I think this adds to it. The criticism comes from Kyokushin guys in their own circles.

I like your opinion about the type of kumite, but I don't agree. I think the point fighting looks too close to TKD to the untrained eye, whereas knockdown appears far more distinct. Perhaps it does look far more like brawling, but I think it gives karate more legitimacy that point fighting does in the masses' eyes. There's really no right answer here. Regarding kata, it should be included, and possibly as part of an overall score of kata points + kumite points. That would favor the most well rounded karateka IMO. Kata is an integral part of karate, and should be shown to the world. I highly doubt karate will stay as an Olympic even after Japan, so might as well show what you've got while you have the chance. Plus, kata would be a great balance to knockdown (if the rules to that way, which I highly doubt) to show its not all "brawling." Just opinions.

I think it's a great thing. I don't know if it'll last longer than the Japan Olympics, but you never know. The biggest contention among supporters in the karate community seems to be what type of kumite will be allowed. Will it be padded up point fighting like TKD or knockdown like Kyokushin? I think it needs to be knockdown. Show people a side of karate that's not the stereotypical guys in pijamas playing a game of tag while yelling as loud as they can after they barely touched an opponent to judges' attention. I'm not saying that's 100% true of point fighting, but there's definitely that element. Go knockdown like the Kyokushin World Open or nothing IMO. And add kata. Traditional kata, not make your own gymnastics floor routine kata.

Sounds stupid, but my favorite part of the video was when he was dodging the snowballs. Why didn't I think of that?

We should probably clarify conditioning. Conditioning in the sense of making your hands tougher, not conditioning in the sense of cardio workout.

This year is Seido Juku's 40th anniversary. There's a week long event with seminars, workshops, etc., and a tournament on the weekend. The event has just under 1,000 people attending, with a big percentage competing on the weekend. I wanted to spend a few days at the event, but being a middle school science teacher, I have state testing all week and can't make it. The adults' tournament is on Saturday, and I can make that. I competed a few times back in my early 20s. I liked the training for it, but point fighting left a sour taste in my mouth. A small part of me wanted to compete due to the circumstances of this tournament - there will be people there from all over the world. My division has about 25 people registered from about 6 countries. I'm turning 40 in a few weeks; if I don't do this one, the next one this big will be in 10 years, when I'll be 50, so it's pretty much now or never. What really got me to do it is my 3 and 5 year old daughters. They heard about it in the dojo and asked me to compete; I didn't bring it up to them. I'll be competing in kata and kumite in the green belt (4th kyu) division. I wanted to do Pinan IV for my kata, but I'm going to get buried in points due to my inability to kick much higher than mid thigh (and it looks awful) on the 2 side kicks in the middle of the kata. I'll be performing Gekisai Dai, which I feel really good with. I've been working hard training on a heavy bag the last few months. My hand speed and endurance have improved drastically. I've been doing 10 hard 2 minute rounds with 45 seconds of rest in between three times a week for the last almost 3 months now. I feel like I've improved so much the last 3 months that I don't care too much what the scores are. My teachers and seniors think I've got a great chance at winning the kata division and scoring a lot of points in kumite. Kumite isn't going to be tournament/bracket style. Since the event is so big, everyone fights 2 two minute matches and all points scored are added to the team score. I've been asked to take part in the webcast on Saturday for KF's 15th anniversary. I'm going to try my best, as I feel honored to be asked and would love to chat about anything MA. Hopefully I can at least call in at some point.

They're completely different tools. Makiwara isn't really for speed or strength. It's for technique and conditioning. At least a think it is, as I don't have much experience with one. If you're looking to build speed, power, combinations and endurance on a lot of different techniques, the heavy bag is your best bet. I'll let the makiwara guys state the makiwara case.