delta1

WarR and Soni, I'm going to recomend American Kenpo to both of you. WarR, you should check it out if there is a school near you because it is different in both the way it trains and in its moves and application. It isn't necessarily for everybody, but it sounds like it might suit you. Soni, you need an art that works in close and is highly adaptable. AK fits these requirements. But more than a good style that can be adapted to you, you are going to need an instructor that is both willing and able to work with you and help you adjust. It will also require a lot of the other students, but if you are working hard I think that most martial artists in any style will be willing to help. I know the style can be made to work for almost anyone. AK uses all ranges and all natural weapons, and is designed to be adapted to the individual. It uses a lot of straight arm strikes as well (you mentioned elbow problems). AK also emphasizes footwork and works all angles, which will be important to you if your ability to block or parry is compromised. We don't normally do a lot of high kicks, but that can be adjusted also, and I've known a couple of Kenpoists that were pretty effective with higher kicks. AK does have a full arsenal of kicks. I'd also recomend that you both check out Tai Chi Chuan, especially if you can't find a good school nearby that meets your needs. But find a school that teaches it as a martial art and not just as a healthy dance. The dancers get less than half the health bennifits out of it, and none of the martial bennifits. Tai Chi (Taiji) is extremely adaptable, as well as effective. But it takes a lot longer to learn to a level of competance that you could use it to defend yourself. You are both young, so this is not a great problem- unless you are impatient. (If that is the case, you need to reevaluate your priorities or you will likely fall victom to a belt factory. Any martial art worth learning takes time and effort.) I wish you both luck.

And a good base aids in speed and power generation. It is a crucial component of ballance. It makes it harder for an opponent to move in and occupy your space, or to knock you over. Stances and footwork position you for offense or defense. They help make you unpredictable. They give you options. If that's not enough, they really look cool too!

1) If you practice it as a sport. 2) If it was designed to be a sport. TKD was developed as the national sport of Korea, and is an excellent sport style because, for one thing, most of the moves are easily seen by the judges. But I've seen it done effectively as a martial art for self defense and as a combative art. Kenpo is known as a brutal, street oriented style, but has been successfully used in competitions (though many schools 'deprogram' you before and after a tournament).

Exactly. I once told a baseball coach who asked me about kung fu that he was teaching it already. And renketsu, why wouldn't Tai Chi count? I think you've been watching too many old hippies in the park!

yireses, don't pay any attention to them. They're just torqued because they aren't making any money at it! Some people are good martial artists, some are good teachers, and some are good at marketing. A very few are good at all three. I don't like the marketers that are no good at the other two parts of the equation, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I don't get too worked up over it. Like everything, "caveat emptor", let the buyer beware.

That's a good way to put it. Dang! Wish I'd thought to say that.

I used to spar, and fight with my brother all the time. He's tough. I was also his training dummy when he went through the academy. Also used to work out with a couple of cops and corrections officers. The cops were pretty goood, but the corrections guys were just big! They had a tendency to just smother an attack, take you to the ground and wrap you up, then hold you there 'till the other one came over and hit you with a stick. That's pretty much what they were trained to do with unruly prisoners. Like the guy said, everything to its' own situation, but that isn't my idea of self defense.

It isn't the rank system that makes good or poor practitioners. It is, in order of importance, the practioner, the instructor, and the school (just my opinion). Whether the school uses a lot of belts, a few belts, or a phase system (begginer, intermediate, advanced) really depends on the teaching style and the ammount of material to be learned more than anything else. Standardized rank systems and carriculums in large organizations help insure that everyone is taught the same things to the same level of proficiency at the same point in their training. It also provides an easily identifiable reference for skill level at seminars, tournaments, or for students visiting another school. Ditto for visitors or new students at your school. As for belts and the McDojos, if they didn't have belts I'm betting they would find some kind of status symbol to hand out to make their students feel good enough to make their next payment. Awards, certificates, patches, stripes on the ghi, colored ghi's- these are already used by the clowns running these schools. But when you step on the mat, that is when you and your school earn their reputation, and the trimmings don't mean squat any more. So if you have 'IT', wear your belt and school patch proudly. If not, look to your own attitude and find another school.

Guys, you are looking at this all wrong. You look for signs like 'KI BALLS' and no touch knock outs, and other fantastic, showy stuff. And you are into 'controlling your qi energy'. It doesn't work like that, you don't 'control' it. You allow it to move, and direct it's movement by gentle suggestion, not by force. And no touch ko's are possible for advanced practitioners, but there are a lot of charlatons out there who will show you the same thing, for a price. Problem is, they are fakes. But that is what most people base their ideas of qi on, the fantastic and the phony. I know it exists because I've experienced it, alone, with no other influences. But you will never know for sure one way or the other until you open your mind and experience it yourself. I think it was Sho-ju that has a cross on his avitar. How do you know that God exists? I'll say flat out that I can more positively experience qi than you can experience God. But I believe He exists as well. I must be drunker than I thought to reply to a thread on qi. But there you have it.

One finger would be pretty rare. I used to have a video of this guy doing a handstand on two fingers, along with a lot of other stuff. His external qigong was amazing. But I loaned it out, and you know the rest of that story .

I know of one school that has a pink belt hanging on the wall. If you get a big head about your rank, or hold your rank over others inapropriately, or just get too focused on the next belt instead of the knowlege, you get to wear the pink until the instructor thinks you've learned some humility. And it doesn't matter what rank you are, you can be pinked!

I'd say Shotokan is, or at least can be, a good combative art. And I can attest to the poster who said they have good power! A couple of days ago I spared the Shotokan guy (one of the crazy's I've been working out with lately). He's no pushover, and I'm nursing a fat lip now. Even with headgear and gloves he rocked me a few times. The more styles I work out with, the more I learn not to underestimate any of them!

I don't have a problem sweating in bare feet, but when I wear shoes they sweat profusely. And your feet can still slip, even in a good fitting shoe. Another problem is the smell when you take them off! I've been working out with some MMA types who prefer, and do well in, the wrestling shoes. I have a pair of otomix shoes, and my feet do slip in them. I learn to adjust.

Scenario 1- you pretty much agred with me, though you chose to argue the point ( ). So I'll just agree with you and let that one go by. Begs the question. You base your argument on the assumption that your script is the only way for this scenario to play out. Nothing is reasonably certain in a fight, and this (as all the scenarios I mentioned) was taken from a real encounter. This one happened to involve my brother and a group of drunks. My brother is a pureist, and will tell you that the only art worth studying is American Kenpo (I argue a lot with him too!). He successfully defended himself with strikes, and was able to take the lot into custody without a single joint lock or throw. And this isn't the only time he's done this. Scenario 3 was not addressed. Scenario 4: though you apparently took exception to it, you really only expanded on my basic argument, giving a specific example of what I said in general terms. As for police academies, their primary focus is to teach the minimum skills necessary in the limmited time they have. They focus mostly on cuffing, compliance and control techniques, which are joint locks and grappling. But they are not full grappling or aiki courses- intro level stuff at best. Further training is left to the individual officers and to their respective departments. No one here is saying that joint locks and grappling aren't important to a police officer. I'd guess that most would agree that they are important, and should be learned first to some extent. We are simply answering the initial posters question as to why striking arts would be useful to a police officer.

Scenario 1: (already brought up, but to expand on the concept) The officer is suddenly attacked at close range. Joint locks, grappling and submissions are fine, but the first concern, and the natural reaction, is to block and strike. The officer has to survive the initial assault in order to employ other techniques. He also has to be able to * the situation before deciding to subdue the assailant. He may need to leave and call for backup. Solution- striking techniques to stun or disable and get time to * and take the proper action. Another point here, even grapplers learn to strike. If you can't fight, you probably won't be able to use joint locks and grappling. Scenario 2: a simple contact goes wrong, the officer finds himself suddenly facing multiple, aggressive subjects, and one attacks. He has no time to deploy a weapon, and the last thing he wants to do is get tied up with only one bad guy. Solution- footwork and striking. Scenario 3: The officer is facing a grappler who intends to clean the floor with him. Never play the other guy's game, especially when rolling around would give him access to the weapons carried on your belt. Solution: footwork, move to give yourself distance and time to deploy those weapons. If he gets too close before you get a weapon deployed, strike and move again. Scenario 4: Dog attack. Joint locks are simply not an option. Striking, while not optimal either, is far preferable and may disuade the animal. Of course, when he's on the officer, there will be some form of grappling used- probably with the intent to get the dog off so he can kick the crap out of it to buy time to get his sidearm and shoot it. If I was a cop, I'd learn a good striking art that also incorporates stand up grappling and joint locks, and I'd suppliment it with grappling. I'd also take one of those high stress reality courses, and get expert supplimental instruction in firearms. But the truth is that most of the police out there don't learn any more than what is taught to them at the academy or required by their department.

Yes. And they can do dammage or set you up for other attacks. I'd take a push seriously, though how seriously is a judgement call in each situation. Depends on the push and the situation. One hand or two? From which direction is the push comeing? Most styles have several defenses against pushes. My thought is to learn yours and practice them under a variety of conditions. Set yourself so you can't move laterally, then so you can't move back. Varry the height and angle of attack. Work the attack to intercept before the push makes contact, then work it under full force. You'll find out that every situation, especially the full force which made contact, will require some modifications to your basic techniques.

I study American Kenpo, and it is an extremely effective style. I work out regularly with martial artists from other styles, including Shotokan. I have a lot of respect for all those styles, but AK more than holds its' own. There will allways be some petty individual with an opinion, but without honor, who will try to run down other systems- and those that developed and practice them. There will also be those that will tell you that what they do is the ultimate, if not only effective style. The best advice here is to check it out for yourself and see if it suits you. By the way, Mitose was a criminal. He went to prison for trying to arrange a hit on someone, as I recall. He was also a con artist and a lousy martial artist. He put out a lot of propoganda, claiming affiliations with a lot of people who had only contempt for him. Unfortunately, a lot of this still sticks today. Truth is, Mitose had very little effect on Kenpo or the martial arts in general, and none of it was good. And while we are on this subject, even though we have the same last name, I want to say that I am NOT related to Hohan-1!

Couple of things might be happening. The first punch moves the bag back, so the second travels farther and gets more speed and power. Also, your body is moving toward the bag already with the second punch, and probably positioning you a little better, adding momentum and backup mass. If you want more power on the first punch, relax, and pay more attention to body mechanics and footwork when you throw the punch. This is a guess, of course, since I havn't seen you work the bag. But try it and see if it works.

Thanks guys. Misery loves company, and I'm one sore, miserable marfajulio today. But this makes me feel better.

I agree. Follow the protocals of the school you are at. If in doubt, bow. If you did it wrong, I doubt any one will be offended, since you showed respect. And that is the main thing. Actually, I think that should be a requirement- might do them some good! Most pro BB players have the morals of an alley cat.

American Kenpo- both. It's well ballanced. Taijiquan fa- both. What would you expect from the grand ultimate style!

Hey, Tibb- I do both as well. The question was which one was better, so I gave an answer. But you are right, your workout should be varried and well rounded. If you really want to work different muscle groups, I have a set of hand stands made of PVC pipe that allow me to position my hands at almost any angle. They also raise my hands about 6" off the deck. Unfortunately, I do have to watch it when I do pushups. I over did it last week, and I'm wearing a support on my elbow this week. Edit: the flamin' face is for my elbow, not you. Just realized how that might look.

Another way to visualize these kicks: Side kick- if you held a 10" diameter tube between your son and his opponent, the kick chambers, then the foot travels straight down the tube to his opponent. And it returns and rechambers on the same path, straight back out htrough the tube!!! He then plants his foot forward or back, depending on what he wants to do. (Never drop the foot straight down from a kick.) Roundhouse kick- the kick chambers, knee pointing at the target. The kick delivers in an arc, like it was skiming over the top of a table. It may return by the same path or take a different path, depending on what he wants to do next. I didn't go into getting the hip into the kick because others already did that. But it is important. Another thing to make sure he's doing is turning the heel of the supporting foot towards the opponent when he kicks. That will help get more hip and more power into the kick. But more important, it will prevent knee dammage or injuries. Hope this helped. Good luck!

Ever have "one of those nights"? You know, where you are uncoordinated, can't get anything right, and basically just die. I just got my (!) handed to me by everyone tonight! No point, just venting.

The guy paints a pretty extreme picture to make his point, but it is a good one. 'Reality' is ugly! And the ground is the last place I want to be in a street fight. But as I've said before, if it happens to go there you need to know what to do. I train both (though my grappling skills are no where near up to par yet), but the only way I want it to go to the ground is if I throw him, hard, and hopefully do some dammage. As for the openings not taken, there's all kinds of missed shots in most fights. And on the ground, when he has the mount and is pounding your face, I guarantee you are going to miss a few shots. I think that probably detracted from his point, which is too bad. The extremists in both camps can come up with that kind of argument. I personally would look for a school that does both, then there's nothing to argue about. Edit: one other point, the only way to really train defenses against takedowns is to spar or fight someone who is trying to do it to you. Techniques are great training aids. But the only way to make them work is to have to make them work.