Kusotare

Well, I was thinking more about technical seminars (taught by different instructors) as well as competitions. More important though - is the deeper understanding of the tradition. Kicking and punching aside, it’s about the transmission of core skills, principles and philosophies. From a Japanese bujutsu perspective - there are guys outside Japan that can do this well, but they are very few and far between. K.

Hello, I'm not sure where the best place is to post this, but I thought I'd ask whether there are any other practitioners of the Classical arts from Feudal Japan? Are you a member of a Koryu? Or do you practice in a School of Ninpo/Ninjutsu (Bujinkan/Genbukan)? K.

I think everyone is in agreement with that, however there may be additional / greater opportunities that come with training with Okinawan / Japanese group (if you do Karate) or indeed an international group.

Let's not forget there are some "brands" of Karate that were created in mainland Japan by merging the Okinawan Karate with arts indigenous to Mainland Japan - Namely Wado-ryu and Kyokushin. So to suggest that mainland Japan was merely a "pit stop" along the way isn't entirely accurate. K.

Then by the same token I'd consider it to be Indian... Or Greek even!

How is that not "forging your spirit"?And your standards for what Self defense are are extremely high. I doubt that many police or security level combative programs would meet it. I thought you might like to see this. I'm hoping to get to train with this guy next year when he is over. At 4:00 he says... "It’s the biggest lie that we tell, not just in martial arts we tell it in Cop training we tell it everywhere and it is the lie that you are gonna fight the way you are trained and I hate to be the one to say it, but it is not true!" K.

Just a thought... Someone mentioned earlier that Karate was not Japanese but rather Okinawan. Then another poster mentioned that the origins of Karate were Chinese. Both facts are important to consider – in the same way that it is important to remember that American (Gridiron) Football most probably originated out of the British game of Rugby Football. Although the game of football that is most commonly practiced (outside of the US) is what you guys call soccer, Gridiron Football has a pretty big following outside of the US also. There are many enthusiastic teams and players, however, my betting is that anyone that practices American Football in Europe would aspire to visit / watch games in the US and ultimately train / play there. Do you think they would be wrong or narrow minded to think this? Do you think it would have anything to do with cultural xenophobia!?

I sit on a fence here - I'm both a karate-ka and a Jujutsu-ka. Whilst the karate-ka may see that possibility, from a Jujutsu perspective (in practicality) - it probably doesn't work. Imo, you need to look more into the body movements that you are training. K.

So, wasn't Okinawa part of Japan when most of the systems of karate (that are recognised today) were formalised? Hair splitting aside, karate did not originate in the US. K.

I don't think being American based makes you any less worthy, however Karate is a Japanese martial art (and there is no getting away from that), so it is only natural that some folk may seek to find a credible link back to Japan somewhere. In the style of Karate I practice there are many occidentals that are fantastic at the art in fact I'd go as far as to say that some of them are amoungst the best in the world! However, there is no doubt that a far greater percentage of the top flight exponents / teachers are Japanese. If you are talking about Koryu traditions, well that's another story. I can count the number of non Japanese teachers / high level exponents on one hand (nearly) I know most of them (if not in person then by name). They are very rarely found outside of Japan. Point is, people seek authenticity, and although that's like nailing jelly ([us] jello) to a wall, it won't stop them trying. K.

I see you describe the styles you train as Goju-ryu Karate and Jujutsu. How much and what Jujutsu did you study? The reason I ask is that most jujutsu schools practice Ukemi as a norm. Standard drills (junbi) are also quite common. This should stand you in good stead for training Aikido. You seem keen to avoid some of the processes. Can I ask why? K.

Indeed, and as I have mentioned earlier in this thread, but the aquisition of self defence skills is not the primary goal. K. That is something that has always seemed odd to me, too. I think that if something is going to be termed a Martial Art, then it should transfer some modicum of self-defense in its training, regardless of its overall goals. I agree that it could - but it's not alway the end goal. Further more, be very cautious as to how effective that self defence is likely to be. Caveat Emptor as it were. K.

TBH, I’ve never been a big fan of Kata competitions. Even with so called traditional associations - where one would hope there would be less of the acrobatics and screaming - the judging is so erratic. Not surprising really - when you look at something as subjective as Kata. This is why perhaps the WKF proposals to introduce Karate into the 2020 Olympics exclude kata. Can’t say that surprises me. K.

Agreed!

Do you still train? How long did you practice for? K.

Can you expand on what you mean here? K.

Indeed, and as I have mentioned earlier in this thread, but the aquisition of self defence skills is not the primary goal. K.

Very well put. Martial arts is a very big umbrella as you say - and of course, which ever path you choose, doesn't make you any less the martial artist -or the style you do any less worthy of that label. Just be sure to read - and fully understand that label though!? K.

Sounds like one heck of a fella! I'm sorry for your loss. K.

Rust Belt = the north east/northern parts of the US? Due to the declining industry? K.

What or where is the "rustbelt" lol. K.

JusticeZero, It sounds like you are doing a great job. You seem to think I am criticising you personally - I am not. I'm simply asking folk to be a little more introspective here - when it comes to training "traditional" martial arts - and the significance/actuality of self defence. K.

And as for what defines Budo... Being able to do Junzuki properly. Can I do that after 25 years? Well I'm getting there. But at least I know that. Am I 100% percent sure that my ma will defend me and my family, no, but at least I realise that also. Should I therefore give up and train another style that guarantees that - well - no such thing. What are the "actual" chances of you being seriously attacked? K.

I train and teach Wado-ryu Karate for 25+ years. I also train (and lead a study group) in a 17th century Koryu Bujutsu (The stuff the samurai do): Iaido Jujutsu Kenjutsu I have also studied (and am graded in) Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. All of which have a hump loads of very, very good techniques. But again, I wouldn't say that by learing this stuff you are learning self defence for todays world. That's something different. K.

I'm not sure you can measure Budo and Self Defence on the same weighing scale. As for whether our training meets a minimum standard? - Well that's kinda the point. Budo is all about getting better, so no, I guess we don't often hit the sweet spot - but it's all about the trying. There is only training! K