Killer Miller

With proper breathing, kime, contracting all muscles in unisen, you actually protect vital organs/bones/joints from damage. If over extending or tensing in one area, damage occurs. Nishiyama us to have us run from one side of the dojo to the other and stop on a dime with lungeing punch, without any movement at focus, kiai, and all muscles properly contracted. Then immediately into free style ready position after focus. We would do this over, and over, and over till legs turned to gello and back to sound muscles with out second wind... - Killer -

Thanks Takeda Shingen, You mention that the modern method is to straighten the foot for less tension on the knees to minimize damage. Knee injuries have always been an issue, but not because turning the foot in is the cause, but of inexperienced karate-ka "over tensioning" the knees as being the cause. Turning the foot/feet actually allows more stability and quick reaction speed than a straight foot. However, there is a perfect medium of the amount of necessary tension to apply. Many karate-ka over tension the knees which is just as bad, if not worse, than under tensioning... Fuel for thought. - Killer -

I haven't trained with Kase, I don't think, but Kase is very good too...! - Killer -

Also, I wasn't trying to imply to you personally were looking for a short cut, I was talking in generalities. - Killer -

I have trained with Shirai before, he is an awesome instructor - amazing kicks...

Try putting outside tension on both knees without the toes gripping the floor - the feet will slip and turn outwards. Also, the toes are part of the foot's 50/50 weight distribution needed for a stable stance - else weight becomes on the heel or ball of the foot and becomes wobbly or unstable. Also, for clarification for some that read this post, many styles believe that in order to become mobile, the heel of the foot is raised to allow for a springy and mobile stance. This is not true in Shotokan. The stance is always flat when in position to actually carry out a technique, or at least one foot is flat of the supporting leg. Even when moving in Shotokan, one foot is always flat - one foot transfer up and the other quickly transfers flat to maintain stability of the movement and allows immediate changes in direction and speed if necessary. If both feet are not flat, at any time, you lose the ability to quickly change direction or speed, and if someone detects your breathing timing, and kicks you during this transition of both feet not making contact, you easily go down or become very unstable when kicked - or what ever they decide to do... There are two primary purposes of a stance in Shotokan: 1. Provide stability at all times of technique execution. 2. To allow a varying tempo and length of movement to be executed at any time - if necessary. For #1 above, stability is significant to the stance being used - zenkutsu kachi (front stance), kokutsu dachi (back stance), kiba dachi (straddle leg stance), etc. Each stance has a different purpose and requires a different percentage of weight distribution for effectiveness and directional mobility. Example, zenkutsu dachi is a 60/40 stance that is very strong for frontal attacks and very difficult to be pushed back on - but easy to be sweeped or pulled off balanced to the side. Kiba dach is a 50/50 stance and is very stable from side to side, but easily pulled front of rearward off balance. Kokutsu dachi is 70/30 stance and is more of a defensive stance when driven backwards and provides a very stable stance when being pushed rearward, but easily put off balance in a sidways manner - more than zenkutsu dachi. For #2 above, speed and mobility must be consistent regardless of what stance you are using. This is obtained through proper weight distribution of a stance with the proper tension appropriate for the stance. In zenkutsu dachi and kiba dachi, the stances are actually very similar except the weight distribution and where the toes point are different - but two totally different uses and directional stability. The toes actually remain parallel in both stances, except the feet are exactly straight ahead in kabi dachi (if body is facing the front of the dojo) to allow good sideways stability, and a 45 degree in zen kutsudachi. Kokutsu dachi uses an "L" shaped stance. In order to quickly change directions during or after technique execution, you use breathing and a spring and coil affect in your stance. This can be one foot being the spring and coil or both feet being a spring and coil. This spring is tensioned to varying degrees for the need. In order for the spring to propel, is must first be coiled and ready to go and firmly anchaored to the ground. Thus a proper stance with the proper weight distribution and proper anchoring to the ground and proper inside or outside tension on the legs as necessary for the movement. This equates to kees being bent, weight distibution proper for the direction you are going to propel, and proper anchoring to the ground via full weight distribution over the supporting or propelling foot/feet (meaning that the toes gripping the floor is part of the full wight distribution and anchoring of the supporting foot/feet). When releasing the spring, the result is immediate. Versus having to first coild the spring and then release causes unnecessay timing needed for effective movement and technique execution. I'm half a sleep, waking up with my first cup of Kocha, so I hope this makes sense and I haven't forgotten any key points. If I forgot anything, ask and I'll reply or clarify any missing points... - Killer - I've heard this 'grip the floor' thing before but never heard a good explanation of WHY you'd want to do that. What's the point?

I think you may have an inexperienced perspective on Shotokan kicks. Meaning that, Shotokan kicks do require a high level of training to be truly effective - but the same is true for all Shotokan techniques. Many/most of the Shotokan karate-ka do not stick with the art long enough to become effective in their technique. Most are looking for the "short cut" to perfection of technique for competition or self defense. Shotokan requires specific development to become effective and most just don't want to spend the time to learn it - thus, most of what you see appears to be ineffective. However, you look at the vetrans that have stuck around, they have very devostating technique... - Killer -

No, I'll have to check it out. Fellow JKA discussion is fun... - Killer -

When I had my dojos, I never pressured anyone to stay at my dojo, or to only learn our style. If they wanted to discuss differences between styles, it was a welcomed conversation. However, when they came into my dojo to train, and they didn't want to follow our style and methods, they were welcome to go elsewhere... I taught Karate for the Love of Karate and to spread the teachings. Not for the money or quantity, just Quality! - Killer -

I checked out your website Mark. Very Nice... - Killer -

Putting the toes in a couple of degrees allow you to grip the floor and also apply proper outside tension on the knees for that coil and spring starting action you need as well as a firm, but mobile stance. - Killer -

If you are inexperienced and just comparing styles - That's ok. However, if you are inexperienced, asking and doing what other styles say to do as correct, picking up bad habbits in the process due to your lack of understanding - This is very wrong! If you are experienced, then seeking your own path - This is fine to do... - Killer -

The most important kata to work on is the basic katas you should be working on for development, or the kata that is going to most improve your greatest weakness at the time (if an advanced karate-ka). - Killer -

Thanks NidaninNJ, - Killer -

I thought I would start a fresh thread on this topic from a reply on another thread. How has Karate, or any other MA, helped you in other sports, arts, professions, etc.? Please try to be specific as to the techniques and body mechanics and how they relate to each other (similarities). I will re-post part of my other reply from the other post as an example to get things going. Recap of things I've participated in: Table Tennis - same stances, heavy use of hip rotation, and lots of shifting and stepping exactly the same as karate. Archery - same breathing techniques, shoulders down and relaxed, and stance is a modified centered 50/50 stance (45 degree angle) similar to karate to provide good anchoring and a smooth release of the string. Golf - hip rotation and breathing. Baseball or Softball - hip rotation. Classical Guitar - Breathing techniques, relaxation of entire body with focus on left and right hand movements (arms staying relaxed) and keeping all movements to the center of the body. Also, learning new pieces, especially Bach, working on "phrasing" like you would in a kata. you work on the outside movements of the piece, then learn the inside movements/feelings of the piece - this includes appropriate pauses for proper timing, proper breathing, and to dynamics for entertainment value and your interpretation of the piece. Just as you would performing a kata in karate. - Killer Miller -

Most sports use karate technique... Although playing table tennis most of my life, I took up karate in the early 70s to improve my table tennis. The technique of karate and table tennis were identical. Luckily I had some awesome instructors and thus got more involved in karate for 17 years. So many sports are unstructured in terms of technique and technique standards and that became one of my missions to introduce proper body mechanics and movement to table tennis - which I still play. The sports/arts I've participated that karate techniques are the same and have influenced are: Table Tennis - same stances, heavy use of hip rotation, and lots of shifting and stepping exactly the same as karate. Archery - same breathing techniques, shoulders down and relaxed, and stance is a modified centered 50/50 stance (45 degree angle) similar to karate to provide good anchoring and a smooth release of the string. Golf - hip rotation and breathing. Baseball or Softball - hip rotation. Classical Guitar - Breathing techniques, relaxation of entire body with focus on left and right hand movements (arms staying relaxed) and keeping all movements to the center of the body. Also, learning new pieces, especially Bach, working on "phrasing" like you would in a kata. you work on the outside movements of the piece, then learn the inside movements/feelings of the piece - this includes appropriate pauses for proper timing, proper breathing, and to dynamics for entertainment value and your interpretation of the piece. Just as you would performing a kata in karate. Many similarities with each other... Gee, this might be good for another thread?

Balance is 98% technique. Bend your supporting knee when doing your round-house to keep the center of your body weight distributed over the center of your supporting foot. - Killer -

Four critical tips to train for team kata: 1. Practise slow and understand each movement/technique. Must use breathing timing. 2. All three of you come to the same agreement and understanding of the kata application. Then all three visualize the same application of technique. If all three have different interpretations of the kata, you will never become in sync. 3. Practice breathing slowly, then as fast as practical for the application. Keep repeating, slow, then fast. 4. Learn the kata together as "phrases" and have syncronized pauses at the ends of various phrases of the kata movement. As if your were a classical guitarist learning a new guitar piece, or as a quartet would learn a new piece. The inside/outside movements are easy by your self. As a threesome team, it's a whole nother story! You could have three magnificant karate-ka as a solo performer, and rotten together as a team in sync... - Killer -

To better explain emptiness is to read my article on "Mind Dumping." Otherwise I would be re-stating what I've already written. - Killer -

Sweeping a guy with tree trunks, big or tall is even easier with the front leg/foot if your timing is good. They have a tendancy to commit more weight to their front foot and it is actually easier to sweep them as long as their foot has not rooted to the ground when sweeping. - Killer -

You don't set up for a sweep, it naturally happens with good reaction, timing, and practise. You have to catch your oponent in a relaxed state between point A and point B when they are executing a technique. When they have comitted their weight forward, or backwards, to where they are just touching the ground, this is when you have to sweep. This is where a lot of practise on "Breathing Timing" comes in where you pick up your oponent's breathing timing and naturally anticipate when they are going to be in this comitted relaxed state for sweeping - without thought. It just happens naturally. If you plan for it, they will know it's coming and just lift their foot before committing their weight on the foot - then they catch you with a round house or reverse punch on your effort. Sweeping is an art to be effective at it. When done with the rear foot, it's dangerous if you are not good at it because of the long action. If done with the front foot, it's much easier to be deceptive in your approach for a sweep. Almost natural as your oponent comes in to attack to sweep with your front foot as they just barely touch the gound with their foot. They then GO DOWN quickly and you nail them with a reverse punch. This is the most common use of sweeping and the most effective as well. Work of the Tekki Katas which will prepare you nicely for this technique. Fuel for training... - Killer -

To clear up a misconception about tournament contact... There is a BIG difference between intentional body contact for the intent to impose harm on your oponent, and contact caused by inexperience of your oponent. What does this mean? 1. If your oponent charges you and just slams a punch, this would be an intentional act to commit harm and would be warned or disqualified. 2. If you execute good technique and speed with an intended safe "focal point" of attack, and your oponent is less experienced or not as in good of shape, wavers, moves out of position at the time you have already committed your punch execution, gets his nose broke in the process, this would be allowed without penalty. This was the fault of the person getting hit for either not blocking properly, or being not experienced enough to maintain proper stability to avoid moving your body into a dangerous position to allow harm to come to you. Can there be a fine line between the two above scenarios? Yes... But that's what experienced judges look for when they make their decision as to wether it was a violation or not. I have hurt oponents in the past with scenario #2 - none of these injuries were my fault. Of course I felt bad about what happened, but I never felt guilty that it was my fault. I can honestly say that I have never been guilty of scenario #1. Here's the justification of the injury. When you commit to a technique, you instinctively determine a focal point for your attack that is within 1/2 inch or very light contact. When you commit to a technique, you contract all body muscles and the time it takes to go from relaxed point "A" to focal point "B" is a fraction of a second. Once you commit to your focal point, there is no turning back on technique or stopping once you have generated the starting action speed and contracting to convert that speed into energy and force. If your oponent moves in just "one" inch, he/she if definately going to get hurt. This is totally your oponent's fault and they should know to definately not move forward, leave themselves wide open for attack, and to not make an attempt to properly block the attack. Also, this typically occurs with a well trained and experienced karate-ka against a less experienced karate-ka. This is also one of the efforts to standardize karate in order to minimize injuries like this from occuring. You always get some brown belt, or a newbie black belt that thinks they can effectively compete with a vertran black belt. It doesn't work and they are bound to get hurt at one point. So as you can see, I have a totally different opinion on this subject than most from a tournament perspective. Your's truly, - Killer Miller -

Great find! Thanks, - Killer -

I think training with Jon Keeling, as suggested, would be an absolute "home run" for you... Go check it out. - Killer -

No disagreement here. And it looks like the WKF is likely to be solidified as that role. My only point was that it doesn't set it in stone if another organization was to become more structured for that position. My other point was that just because the IOC has recognized the WKF as the acting "sole governing body" doesn't mean that they were necessarily the poineer organization for traditional karate. Two key factors that hurt WUKO and the ITKFfor that role, other than their lack of solidarity between organizations, are protective gear and weight classes for the olympics. The IOC perceived any combative olympic sport as having various weight classes. The traditional concept of karate is no weight classes and all against all - everyone is equal. There was also a big concern of safety and the use of protective gear - which in traditional karate was not allowed to be used (except for a mouth piece, a cup and other related protective gear for vital organs). WKF seems to have incorporated these factors nicely to meet the percieved IOC's requirements as an olympic sport. Many of who see written statements of the WKF being the "sole governing body" as an olympic sport becomes a little degrading to the true traditional organizations that have worked so hard for so long on this effort. It's almost as if the WKF came along and borrowed all of thier hard work. It also seems as if many of the true masters and talent of the world were not included in this effort - which is what bugs me the most. But perhaps there will bee some sort of aliance one day and the Olympic talent in this art will become truly awesome... - Killer -