kansascityshuffle

Not all "Okinawan" karate is Okinawan, not all Kyokushin is really Kyokushin. There is bad karate out there. It's up to the individual to get a bit educated and train for a while experiencing other styles and instructors to find what's right for them. I thought the OP was interested in Kyokushin or something similar so this thread has definitely drifted from it's course. From my own experience with kyokushin I will say this, there have been so many fractions and splinter groups that there are a few that have the kyokushin name that I wouldn't consider kyokushin. Kyokushin is known for having strong fighters and sending students to knockdown tournaments against other styles. If you train at a dojo that never sends students to all styles knockdown tournaments, never to any knockdown tournaments, or to only fight inner dojo tournaments I would beware. Just because somebody is a nice person doesn't mean they're a good martial artist, too. I have known some horrible dojo owners that have no business owning a dojo but are the nicest people in the world.

I started out in shito ryu and goju ryu. I have a nidan in shito ryu and a shodan in goju ryu. Through a series of events I ended up in muay thai and kyokushinkai due to my muay thai coach being a former Sabaki champion. I'm testing for my sandan in kyokushinkai in summer and don't really look back to the other martial arts I have studied but muay thai. Not all kyokushin is the same, neither. Keep that in mind...there is bad kyokushin just like there is bad everything else. If you like the dojo you find train there, if you don't, don't stay just because others online say kyokushin is great.

I wouldn't really pay any mind to it. You countered somebody coming at you hard without causing harm to him. He can try to "defend" his humiliation with a made up story but tell him he set the pace by coming at you hard. You'll come across a lot more awkward situations then this. Sorry that I sound so rough around the edge but it's true. Instead of retaliating by hitting him back hard, you swept him, end of story.

My advice would be learn how to wrestle, grapple, BJJ (you'll probably end up on your back), etc. and you'll better understand how to use your karate or whatever else against a wrestler. Yes, make every hit count, of course learn to sprawl, side step, cut angles and counter but if you don't learn some 'rassling', grappling, etc. you're only giving yourself the short end of the stick. You should learn how to fight in all ranges of combat.

The best fighter is not always the best instructor. Trust me, I have trained with some well known fighters and their instruction was horrible. However, a good fighter is great to spar with. I know my answer can be viewed as a bit of a contradiction so I'll explain it a bit. I trained with a very well known Muay Thai trainer who has trained a lot of world champions who himself wasn't known to be a legend like Samart in the ring...however, this trainer was able to teach or rather explain to me finer points of how to maximize techniques I was doing within minutes. This has stuck with me 10 years later where I have trained with some Lumpini champions that have kicked my butt in the ring but offered no good finer point coaching. Take it for what it's worth, just my own personal experience. I do advise to spar with as many full contact world champions that you can (muay thai, kyokushin, daido juku, etc.).

Expensive belts can bleed so that argument is silly. Tokaido, Shureido, Hirota, and Isami are the only brands I have wore. Yes, cheap belts will bleed easier but if you train in a humid country like Singapore you can have your belt bleed onto your dogi. If you don't believe me, train harder and longer...so you actually sweat more. Some of this can have to do with all the 'stuff' that is collected in your belt. If your belt stinks, wash it. My belts hold sentimental value but not for one second do I think I have some type of super power if I don't wash them. Osu!

I had the pleasure of training under him for a while and my good friend that's now a gracie barra blackbelt got his blue belt under Mario when he was living in Brasil. Yes, he's very technical and rough, best way to describe his jiu jitz

I've noticed this too, Moriniuk. There's a fairly common use of a front kick that's really a push kick, strong enough to shove the incoming opponent back, or kill some of his steam. When it's done, the Muay Thai kickers seem to lean into the kick, to make sure it's a shove, not quite the same as a thrust kick that leans back to put your pelvis into it and give it more power than a snap kick. In most "Thai style" Muay Thai it's emphasized to not lean back much, if at all. Balance is heavily emphasized(good form)and not telegraphing what you do is, too. There are different types of front kicks in muay thai, too. However, the one seen the most often is the common teep/push kick. I'm not going to lie though, it's much easier to lean back and really chamber that knee before you kick but a quick way to do it is to throw a rear kao/knee and transfer that to a teep/push kick but practice it so you don't kick your opponent in the groin .

What do you mean your own kata? WKF won't even recognize most Kyokushin kata, especially the wayven the goju ones are done by most kyokushin dojo I have been involved with. You have to do either a goju, shito, wado, or shotokan dojo that is done the way the WKF sets otherwise it won't be judgable. More or less, anyway. It's not always the best way but it makes it fare because the judges will be well versed in judging those kata. This is also done to "unify" Karate so it can maybe one day be in the olympics(which I doubt and hope never happens).

From my experience yes BUT it's by their rules. I once was helping out a more "Americanized" Shito ryu instructor(this was around '96 or '97) who I warned on not even entering a WKF tournament and his top brown belt student. The brown belt student was a young teen and talented doing his own made up tapered bo forms...you get the picture. Of course when he lost his Dad got upset and said it was all favorism. The instructor "won" in kumite because his opponent broke his ankle with aal technique so he received 1st place in his division. Anyhow, the instructor contacted the USANKF(the're associated with the WKF) and registered his dojo and then entered this WKF tournament. You can only do certain kata, a certain way to even have a chance of scoring in WKF tournaments, remember that.

I agree with AJ here. If the only thing stopping you going back is the sparring, well surely you should be able to adapt. Also, small price to pay in order to get a bone fide dan grade you can be proud of. "Budo Association" type boards who issue "generalised" Karate dan grades are only after your money, and its money that is willingly given by many, it would seem, in order to receive that all important grade advancement. Personally I would go back to either the Shito or Goju group you were part of and work up to your Yondan. It will be far more valuable to you in the long run. Otherwsie its a case of Yondan? Yondan in What? On your last note, Yondan in what, I don't know..I'm currently trying to network with the kakutogi people I was shortly in contact with years ago. However, I still spar with people that are muay thai title holders, MMA people, etc. You can't make that switch successfully going back to point sparring, at least I can't and I haven't met anybody that has or can go back and forth. It's even hard to do going from muay thai/kickboxing rules to knockdown kumite rules. If I fought under knockdown rules I would quit muay thai sparring for about a month and would do the same to go back to muay thai. To be able to go to WKF rules sparring would be near impossible for me unless I was to completely give up muay thai and knockdown kumite which I am not. I'm asking if anybody can give some type of advice to meet what I'm asking? If you yourself have never fought in muay thai and knockdown kumite and tried to go back to WKF rules kumite I don't think you have any idea how hard that is to do.

Ok, here goes. I have a nidan in shito ryu and shodan ranking in goju ryu and kakutogi(chokushin) and I'm instructor certified in muay thai. I have a decent competition background starting out as a kid to teen under USANKF/WKF kind of rules than progressing to Muay Thai and Sabaki/Kyokushin rules(meaning I only competed in "full contact" rules for the last decade). I even have had a couple fighters under me for muay thai competition. My "problem" is that I set a goal many years ago to get to Yodan(4th dan). The problem is this...it's hard, near impossible for me to go "back" to point sparring from a MuayThai/kickboxing/knockdown kumite background. I feel very restricted under those kind of rules when it comes to kumite, as well. However, I have respect for it but it's just not for me, anymore. I'm not looking to join some questionable black belt association somewhere because I can do that by going to any internet search in a matter of minutes. What I'm getting at is, I'd like to join some type of "martial arts" or "karate", "budo", association that has some knowledgable high ranking instructors that allow people of other styles with mixed backgrounds like myself that also promote in rank. I plan on having my own Dojo/Gym in a few years or so and am already qualified to do so in Muay Thai but to me Muay Thai is a young person's sport..not really something you can do as much when you're older. I've already been approached by some of my BJJ instructor friends to partner with them opening up a school and I just feel more professional if I could test with some reputable person/association for Sandan and eventually Yodan. I have no problem with a style name given to what I do but I don't feel comfortable or qualified in naming this style myself. I'm no Kenwa Mabuni, Mas Oyama, Morihei Ueshiba, Kano, etc. Does anybody here have any similar experience joining an independent association/org. that can meet these kind of demands? I can find a few online but I question some of them and wonder which ones are good? I have taught on my own for years at a few different schools but was never the owner. I feel I've been around enough schools to see what works and doesn't work. I don't plan on making a living from teaching but if I did make some profit, awesome.. but that's not what I'm in it for. I know that rank doesn't mean much and I sound a bit like a hipocrit but I also feel like a school owner that's teaching budo/karate should at least be a sandan/yondan. I have also been a nidan for about 8 years. Any tips and/or information about any associations/organizations that meet my needs would greatly be appreciated.

I've heard of it and seen some of the schools in WA state a few years back. From what I've seen, think of Hop gong moosul/jang yae moosul, etc..it's based off of TKD and claims to have aspects of a lot of different martial arts. I'm trying not to be negative here but I'd reccomend going to a different school. A lot of YMCAs often have good Judo, Karate, etc. for the fraction of the price. Here: http://www.mooyeado.net/whatismyd.html

in most martial arts competiions Kicking is more points than punching, takes more skill i guess, oh yea and i give you props man, sorry but i havnt heard of a kickboxer who actually uses more kicks than just the boring roundhouse and frontkick, and rthen to land them like that, i think thats awesome, props again man! Really? haha, I'm trying not to laugh thinking of how many kickboxers I know personally and huge ones that do more than just the roundhouse and front kick. I've seen a sliding side kick used many times, it's almost like a front kick used by San shou guys alllllllllll the time and a similar kick was used by Benny 'the jet' urquidez. Bill superfoot wallace wasn't called superfoot for nothing. Don "the dragon" wilson had a plethora of kicks and he trained under Wallace, so, go figure. Savateurs use many different types of kicks not seen in most kicking oriented arts. People with a Kyokushin background have used many flashy kicks in competition that go beyond the front and roundhouse kick. Kickboxing...at professional level is about making money, and someone that wants longevity in the "sport" wants to have some showmanship. I advise you watch more professional cards. -please take not i wasnt trying to insult at all, sorry if i did yea thats what i was talking about, i meant kickboxing in the UFCMMA WEC, etc. i watch alot of that, and i know the guys probably do know more kicks than just the roundhouse and front kick, but its just that whe theyre in action i usually never see anything like a spin kicki, back kick, i have seen side kick probably, but thsat can also be rare, but i wasnt trying to insult, infact i think its otally awesome to see a kickboxer who actually uses mor variety of kicks, lol im sorry but im a fan of spin kick knockouts, thats why, anyhoo congrats on you win though. You're talking about MMA, not Kickboxing. There is a huge difference and until the last few years MMA has been lacking some good strikers and if you want to talk about "good Kickboxer" like stylists in MMA just look at Anderson Silva and GSP. If you want to watch kickboxing and stuff similar to it, watch WMC sanctioned fights, K-1, Ichigeki, Kakutogi, Shootboxing, K-U, and even Kyokushin, Enshin, Ashihara, Shidokan(which is the "triathalon"), Kudo and more kinds of fights. The latter that I mentioned are styles that have full contact competition where you might see some of the types of knockouts you're desiring. ok so ur saying that the striking in kyokushin, or k-1, is better than mmA? THAT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME TO ACTUALLY ANALYZE THAT, BUT I THINK UR PROBABLY right, mma is known alot more for ground game, and k-1 is mostly about striking, but kyokushin? how come u say that, i havnt really seen a karate before besides toshinikai that actually has face contact, so u think that kyokushin would be good in k-1 or mma? btw i havnt evru heard of k-u or WMC, would the happen to be more exciting? The WMC(formerly known as WMTC) is the world muay thai council..it's the cream of the crop when you hold a WMC title belt. Many fighters that you have seen have had WMC belts(Andy Hug, for one). K-U is Kickboxing Union, which is a kickboxing association in Japan. The kicks that you desire are at the world level of Kyokushin and offshoot competition. Filho, Texeira, Feitosa, Pettas, and Hug(rip) came from Kyokushin backgrounds.

I'd like to check this one out, Kansas City; it's something unexpected, and though it's called "double," it's not just spinning around twice the same way. When I do a spinning backfist, I tend to do a 360. (I don't do many of them because it's a dizzying experience for me.) Is it that, when you complete your first spinning backfist, you don't go completely around, but land the foot spinning with the backfist in front of you, a 180 for that foot and so your stance? (That sounds like it's less likely to cause dizziness, too.) If that's so, then you're in the opposite stance from before, and can perform the attack by spinning in the opposite direction from before. I hope I'm on the mark because it sounds clever. Yeah, it's not like doing a 720 or anything like that...you're only going about 180 on the second one, if that, even. It's a nice surprise combination to have in your arsenal, at least for me, it is.

Haven't been on here for a few days and in all honesty was still thinking a lot of how humble this girl is about her martial art training. I have dated a few other girls through martial arts but that's how I met them, I didn't meet her this way. No telling if anything serious will come out of this but I'm still amazed at meeting someone that has trained that long and keeps it that much of a secret.

haha, spinning back fists are kind of a "secret technique" of mine because they're not really taught in muay thai/kyokushin and other stand up styles that I do. I have, however, had great success with them and prefer to do a spinning double backfist and follow it up with a few punches. If you do this quick enough I can almost guarantee you'll land at least a few of the punches. You do a "double" spinning backfist by crossing your leg over and spinning the other direction that you did your first spinning backfist with and delivering a backfist with that other hand. It's actually very easy to do and sounds more complicated than it is. After you deliver the second one follow up with a rear uppercut than a left/right cross(depending on you being a southpaw/orthadox). You can expand upon this combination but it has worked wonders for me. Some people have some difficulty landing the spinning backfist and don't have the distance/timing down right and will end up hitting the person with their wrist/elbow(with their arm locked out it doesn't feel good to elbow someone this way).

No offense, but are you really new to Karate? Where do you think Mas Oyama learned it? I'm sorry for sounding rude..I can't specificy whom or even what "style" started tamashiwara. However, it was done by most practitioners of practically every Okinawan/Japanese style back in the days of Funakoshi, Mabuni, Miyagi, etc. Many people that barely knew any "karate" practiced tamashiwara. Think of it as how some people own bunching bags today that have no idea or hardly any idea of how to box properly. Oyama Sosai was a firm advocate of breaking, which is evident by watching old films of his demonstrations. I wish you could show me where you read that Oyama invented it, that's kind of funny to me. That's like telling me Muhammad Ali invented the punching bag.

I've been involved in martial arts for the most of my life beginning with my Father teaching me shito ryu before I started school. I did fairly well and have received a few black belts and intructor grades in in different martial arts. I love to talk to other fighters and martial artists and keep in contact with the ones I have met through the years. I have received financial opportunities and have helped others get jobs(teaching, private security, pro fights, etc.). I have a facebook/myspace with a few pics of me fighting, doing techniques, and with other fighters which I didn't realize was kind of egotistical. I recently started dating a young Japanese girl but she's lived in the USA most of her life and is "Americanized". Her and I have been talking for months before we decided to date. She knew I did martial arts because of my pictures but I never told her my "resume" or anything of that nature because it would bore most people and non-martial artists. Her and I were trying to make plans to go out for coffee or whatever and she told me she couldn't because of karate. I had no idea she did Karate, or any martial art..so I asked her what style and lo and behold, hayashi ha shito ryu, the same style I started out in. It turns out she has been training in Karate and Judo since she was 5 and is "only" a shodan in both styles. Of course I started babbling about karate and judo techniques with her. Her response to why she never told me about why she did martial arts was simply "because you never asked". It wasn't until later that it really sunk into me how humble and pure her martial art training is. I later found out that her sensei wants her to test for nidan and she doesn't care to. Most people I know would jump at any oppurtunity they have to advance in rank. I must admit, I do and when I was younger remember training an insane amount of hours in hopes of getting that next belt. This girl that shall remain nameless has gave me hope to the path my martial art training leads me some day.

If you really want to get in a debate about what Kata is "original" don't look at Shotokan. Funakoshi DID NOT originally know all the kata you see in most Shotokan syllabus and had his higher ranked students go to people like Mabuni to learn them. This isn't something I just made up, neither. Look around and do some more reading/studying. Shotokan is a great Japanese style of karate that is strong. Which kata is original and isn't is meaningless to a style's effectiveness and beauty. The bottom line is, do you enjoy your training and the kata that you do and if so, which kata represents "your style"?

I myself have done seminars under Kanazawa and Murakami years and years ago. I also did some under Teruo Hayashi(rip), Demura, and many others but point fighting is much different than what's normally known as "bareknuckle karate". I watched some footage last night, coincidentally of an English lad who's been in Japan for the last 11 years or so that at first was shown competing bareknuckle but later with fist protectors. So, I suppose in some Shotokan competitions the competition used to be done bareknuckle..learned something new, thanks.

Correct, for the most part. Ichigeki fight cards which are under the IKO-1(kyokushin lead by Matsui)have kickboxing/mma fights. Either IKO3 or IKO4 a year or two ago tested bringing face punching back and I even saw pics of it which I'll post if I find them. Kyokushin knockdown kumite rules don't allow face punching that I know of unless John Bluming's association does? Anybody here train under him or one of his branch instructors & compete??? Even though Kyokushin doesn't allow them for the most part some dojo train in them....heck most make you train face punches for belt requirements with boxing gloves to some degree. I know of at least 2 of them that do for sure. Some Kyokushin dojo also train in "k-1 rules kickboxing", too..for obvious reasons(ala Filho, Feitosa, Pettas, etc.). Back to the original author...there are pros and cons to every type of fighting stance, it really depends on you and for me it depends on what competition/rules it's for. For Karate I typically keep my hands down a bit lower than I do for Muay Thai/kickboxing but I still keep my hands up higher than most karateka that I know. I can't make the call what is best for you without seeing you train...seriously.

Bare knuckle under waza ari/ippon kind of rules? So basically "point fighting" bareknuckle, right? When I hear bareknuckle in karate I usually think Kyokushin and other knockdown style rules, as do most others in Karate. What that means is, leg kicks(similar to muay thai), knee strikes, knock out power kicks to the head, and full force punches are allowed but no punching to the face. In Sabaki and some other tournament rules you're allowed same side clinching for about 3 seconds, too. I'm know of S.K.I.F. and I seriously doubt it's anything similar to the rules i just described but please correct me if I'm wrong. If I am, what country is this in? Thank you for the info.

I ended up more or less merging Shito with Muay Thai because of my crash course into knockdown karate via my first Muay Thai coach who also had a background in knockdown karate. It wasn't until years later that I trained in a system that really stressed Kyokushin but even than it still had elements of Judo, penjak silat, and kickboxing in it. I was a yudansha in shito and goju and when I started learning muay thai it wasn't until I was an actual instructor at my MT gym did I start to "blend" the two together. I don't reccomend anyone blending two styles together when they're a beginner in the other style. Especially if the instructor of the new style they're just learning hasn't given them any instructor rank, it's disrespectful. This is how, unfortunately, styles get dilluted, and some styles are viewed by others as "weak". The same thing will happen to BJJ, eventually, it has happened to just about every other style.

Never heard of it neither but interesting reading when I read the history of it on the sites posted. Was originally a Kendo style and the current Soke made it into a karatedo style. I believe it's the first time I heard of that actually happen, especially in Japan. Although, Shotokan was heavily influenced by Kendo and Judo because of the high ranking yudansha were also yudansha in kendo/judo.