kansascityshuffle

Bobbing and weaving is a horrible thing to do when kicks and knees are allowed. I've seen more than a couple fighters get knocked out by bobbing and weaving. What typically happens is a chudan mawashi geri (karate or MT style) is thrown and the person will bob right into it! I purposely don't teach my students how to bob and weave but I teach them how to slip punches. I also primarily have them do Kyokushin rules kumite and Muay Thai sparring. With that being said, boxing will only help out your karate, as long as you don't bob & weave. Boxing will help out anybody that's a striker. However, there are some things in boxing that have to be modified for MMA/Muay Thai/Karate. The lead jab and hook without gloves isn't half as effective and the bobbing & weaving is another thing. Almost everything else is pure gold.

This is good advice and the only thing I'll add to it is: You should follow this advice, if you ever face someone the same size as you or bigger, your size and "muscling through technique" won't work. At that point, the winner is going to be the one with the best technique and/or conditioning.

Surprised the judges found in your favor, sounds like the fight was in Thailand ! In Western countries, kickboxing is usually scored more on punches and kicks. In Thailand, punches typically don't score! However, that's been changing the last few years. The bottom line is, if you want to win, don't leave it up to the judges to decide who the winner was.

I think we are beyond the point of calling MMA a fad now. Its well established, and it has been around for 20 plus years now, and really isn't fading. I wouldn't call it a fad anymore. First UFC was in '93, granted, that was the first "big" MMA card here in the USA. The first UFC was in Denver, Colorado...this was no coincidence. The Sabaki Challenge is in Denver, CO, and the early UFC even had a former Sabaki Champion (Pat Smith) fight in them to make a statement. I'd say in the USA, for the general masses, MMA has only been popular for the last 5-8 years. Sure, Vale Tudo, illegal all rules fights, etc. have been around much longer than 20 years but it wasn't globally "in style" like it is now. I still remember in the mid to late 90s loving it, and not many people were big into it, let alone training in any martial arts that had sparring with MMA rules. With that being said, the fad right now in the USA is "UFC," "MMA," getting drunk and watching some UFCs on PPV thinking you're the next big thing. McDojos are even now on the MMA bandwagon offering "MMA classes." So yes, I'd say the fad in martial arts right now is MMA. In the 90s, non-MMA schools still had quite a bit more interest. Just look at how many more Judo tournaments and full contact knockdown karate tuornaments that were still going on in the 90s that aren't today. The public is more interested in the fad we know as MMA, is why. This is coming from somebody that's helped match make MMA cards and training MMA fighters. I'm now burnt out on MMA, and the wannabes that say they train MMA, and the whole attitude of it all..I'd rather go back to the early 90s when it wasn't that popular and not see it become the fad it is today.

I do too, when I look at Muay Thai pioneers in the UK like Master Toddy, Master A, and Master Sken who also had TKD backgrounds. They combined many TKD techniques with MT. A similar kick to the Muay Thai "crocodile tail's whip kick" or Kyokushin "Brazilian kick" is done in TKD. Watching the IKO 2 WT last weekend during the demos reminded me of a TKD tournament Demo at times even LOL!

There are fads in martial arts, just like there is in fashion. Right now, the fad is in MMA and other "full contact combat sports." I like it all, I've trained and taught at MMA/BJJ schools, competed in Muay Thai, taught Muay Thai, have trained in shito ryu/goju ryu, Kyokushin, etc. So going back to what I said in the beginning, when something is more popular, the majority of the clay to mold a nice vase with goes to what's popular! Also take this into consideration. To compete in karate, you need to pay your own way to travel, tournament fees, etc. unless you're in a huge dojo that has the money to pay your way and/or have sponsors. Most people do not start out having their way paid for to compete in karate tournaments. I bring this up, because if you fight Muay Thai, MMA, etc. you typically (I never did) pay to compete. You compete on a fight card, the promoter is trying to make money, and you can even have your travel, hotel, food, etc. all paid for, and maybe thrown a few bucks. When I used to fight in Muay Thai, I was paid a little bit, everything was paid for, hotel, food, etc. I was in my late teens and early 20s, and thought this was a nice break from having to pay to fight in karate tournaments! So, somebody could go to an MMA gym, train for a year or two, and fight on a fight card that they don't have to pay to fight on.....sounds like a better and easier deal on the wallet, right?

Same "I" pattern as in Kyokushin taikyoku sono ichi through san. When I did hayashi ha shito ryu kai we had kihon kata ichi through go, and gyaku tsuki versions, too. I have seen "kihon kata" in other styles that does not have this "I" pattern, though, just an FYI.

Dobbersky, talk to Gary (GJEC) who I know you know and a few others...The gedan mawashi geri definitely came from the Muay Thai interaction. I asked about this, and I forgot the exact year, but Gary and a few other "old timers" I have talked to have confirmed there was no gedan mawashi geri in Kyokushin at first. The Brazilian kick, I'm not sure if that came from Muay Thai since the way the "crocodile tail whip kick" in MT is done a bit differently...I think TKD might have influenced both. I guess we could ask Shihan Isobe or perhaps Shihan Ademir de Costa who was first known to use it...than Filho and Feitosa...unfortunately I don't have any of them on speed dial. The last time I saw Filho or Feitosa in person was in '98, too...can't seem to find my flux capacitor . I highly agree that Kyokushin is a style that will always evolve. It's being tested by tuornaments, and new strategies and techniques will be tried out, used, some discarded (domawashi kaiten geri repeatedly I hope!), and some a staple (gedan mawashi geri!). If it works, use it! If it doesn't, don't! Don't try to find all the answers you seek in kata unless you have a time machine to ask who invented the kata.

I trained at a shito ryu dojo that sparred just as hard as any Kyokushin dojo for what was ALLOWED. Meaning, there was no gedan mawashi geri, hiza geri...it was more or less continuous full contact WKF rules in the dojo. I have also seen goju ryu dojo that do knockdown kumite and iri kumi that is very similar to Kudo rules. I'll stick to Kyokushin and Muay Thai, though, no going back to shito ryu for me. I was a competitive Muay Thai fighter in my younger....and much lighter days, and had a few fighters of my own. I also competed in Olympic style TKD rules when I was a shito ryu/goju ryu stylist. Kyokushin knockdown kumite is its own set of rules. I wouldn't call it Muay Thai or TKD sparring. I have powerful chudan tsuki that I often use to bully someone around with in knockdown kumite, and even knockdown, go figure. When I spar Muay Thai rules wearing 12-16 ounce gloves this doesn't really work as well..or easy, I should say. I also like to use haito uchi to the kidney and ribs, which doesn't work with gloves. In Olympic TKD sparring, you don't even "score" using punches..I know from experience unless they actually givey ou points now? They didn't in the early to mid 90s. As far as Enshin, Ashihara, and any other respected offshoots of Kyokushin..I respect them all. I fought in some Sabaki tournaments thrown by former Enshin branch chief in the Seattle area. I focus quite a bit on "tai sabaki" more than most Kyokushin dojo do, too. I own Enshin and Ashihara books . In fact every knockdown karate forum I know of online gives respect to the offshoots, there is just political bickering between the groups that want to call themselves Kyokushin/kai/kan(shin) etc. but most of us get along. Personally, I try to get along with everybody I can.

Daido Juku isn't just Kyokushin + Judo, neither. It has a very heavy Muay Thai influence, Boxing, and whatever individual instructors want to focus on. I wouldn't say it's that popular in the USA, neither. Very briefly in the USA, there was a NY based Daido Juku dojo, but no more. I know of one Daido Juku shodan in California but he works in the movie business as a stunt man. Some Daido Juku dojo are ran more like professional Muay Thai gyms, some are ran like MMA gyms, and some are ran to focus on Kudo rules. Kudo is the rules with the infamous "super safe" helmets. I know of one Daido Juku shodan that told me he primarily trained in Muay Thai but for his shodan test had to do a "Kyokushin like 10 man kumite." He wasn't prepared for that, because he said he didn't train knockdown kumite for quite a while. Anyway, just clearing up some misinformation...but I wish we did have Daido Juku dojo in the USA...that may change soon, though...

There are some orgs and styles I personally don't think much of most of the time and there are others that seem to have more good then bad. However, I have yet to find any org or style without people that aren't worthy IMO of their rank. I personally like Kyokushin and most of the offshoots of the style but I know some Kyokushin dojo that do nothing close to what I would personally consider Kyokushin. With that being said I back to saying the lineage of your instructor and his/her experience is what's really important. Your instructor can make all the claims they want but you might be surprised how many instructors out there exaggerate and fabricate or come from an instructor that did and continue the watering down tradition. With Japanese terminology in karate I can completely understand the language and understand most of the "intricate" parts of what I'm being told because if the instructor doesn't have the language skills they can teach in English or heaven forbid, demonstrate what they're trying to explain. If you truly are doing Karate at some point it was taught in Japanese/Okinawan so why would the lineage between the source and you quit doing it in it's native language? You train in western boxing in Japan or Thailand and western boxing terminology (English) is used. Also helps to cross train in other karate styles to follow along when they're teaching in more or less the same terminology, shocking. I can go to a shotokan, wado ryu, shorin ryu, goju ryu, Enshin, kyokushin, shito ryu, uechi ryu, ryeui ryu, gosoku ryu, and more dojo and be able to understand what is going on with no problem. Any average practitioner of a year or two has no problem knowing all the Japanese terminology. Which brings me to another theory of mine of some of these "masters" bringing karate back or getting affiliated that didn't have the experience "back in the day" that watered it down to kroddy, not karate.

Goju ryu is such a broad style that one goju ryu dojo can do WKF rules point sparring while another one does iri kumi kumite that resembles Kudo/daido juku rules and kyokushin knockdown rules kumite. However, with that being said the way the stances and kata that are done should differ quite a bit against shotokan. I would try to empty your cup of shotokan knowledge while taking up goju ryu. I cross trained in goju ryu years ago while practicing shito ryu and got to shodan. The application of bunkai in the goju ryu I did is what differed more against the shito ryu that I practiced the most. I have became more aware of the other goju ryu orgs and dojo that do kumite similar to kyokushin and even allow groin strikes..and enter kyokushin tournaments over the years. The other side of the coin I am aware of goju ryu that do little to no kumite so if you find a dojo you like stick to it is all i can say. There are great goju dojo and bad ones, just like any other style.

Affiliation usually doesn't mean much to me. I used to be certified under a huge well known Muay Thai association and left due to them letting somebody in as an instructor that shouldn't be. Without getting political and naming organizations very few karate organizations have no "bad seeds". I'm part of a smaller Kyokushin organization that I like because I'm in constant direct communication with a senior member and know all of the "inside politics" going on. I never had this privilege in the big organizations I have been under. With that being said I was independent for a while myself but I kept in contact with other instructors. The only reason why I joined another organization again was to have the ability to legitimately test for "sensei" rank (sandan) in Kyokushin and because I get along great with the members in the org I'm under. I have been a nidan for just as long as some others I know that are now sandan have been training for is also why I felt the need to actually test again. I think having a lineage that can actually be verified and traced back to "the source" of the art you're teaching is more important then being affiliated with an organization. Ugly politics happen and people splinter off starting their own orgs which starts a lot of talking behind each other's backs.

Well you use Japanese terminology when practicing karate because it's a martial art that originated in Japan. "Osu" (proper romanization) is used in many sports in Japan besides Judo and some karate styles that use it. It's hugely used in Kyokushin and offshoots and also used as "slang" in Japan kind of like a "what's up" that we use here in the USA. To those that think it's silly to use Japanese terminology I think you're silly because westernized boxing terms in Japan use the English pronunciation because boxing was hugely practiced by us English speaking countries before it was in Japan..you'll regularly hear boxing gyms in Japan say "one, two", "uppercut", "jab", etc. I've also heard the same used in Thailand. If you ever travel to other countries that don't speak English it's kind of nice to go to other dojo that use the same Japanese terminology as a common ground so you can follow around even if it's not the same style of karate. With that being said I don't speak Japanese fluently by any means but all of the karate I have studied is typically done primarily in Japanese with little English. Like other said in some branches of shito ryu it is used (in Hayashi ha it was) but I do know that in some Itosu-kai branches they do not say osu. You will also hear it being used in many Judo dojo and kendo dojo. Osu no seishin!

*sigh* How hard do you think biting and eye gouging is? You're fooling yourself if you don't think most if not all of pro MMA fighters could also use the same tactics. The fact is the ones making a living from this are training full time with excellent conditioning, working pads, doing bag work, and full contact sparring. There have been MMA promotions that have allowed the dogi and the UFC used to (Royce Gracie in the earlier ones, anybody). Karate can work but one style alone won't work in MMA, just the way it is. Adapt or die. My original statement about eye gouging and biting not being hard to do..neck cranks aren't hard to do and most people don't do them full force when they grapple but they can pull it off in competition. I seriously doubt most if any of you have much experience eye gouging and biting, too. If you do, you've been very lucky not to get arrested, have some dumb sparring partners to put up with it or are lying. No room for debate here. People that fight MMA, do BJJ tournaments, Judo tournaments, Knockdown karate tournaments, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, etc. get EXPERIENCE fighting against non compliant opponents but those of you focusing on eye gouging and biting are "dancing" with people that are dancing with you.

I broke my pelvis in a parachute accident when I was in the military, well, separated the pubis symphysis 4 cm (open book fracture). As a result kiba dachi wrecks havoc on my back which is effected from my pelvis injury. I go with sheiko dachi as well and find sheiko dachi a bit more mobile even though I don't think I ever used it in kumite. When I was younger we used to do training like stay in kiba dachi for minutes with bo across your thighs and to keep it there without rolling off. Now that I'm a bit older and banged up I'll stick to sheiko dachi whenever possible.

A mawashi geri is allowed in muay thai..any kick you do in karate minus kinteki geri is allowed in muay thai and vice versa (if you do knockdown karate). This is why you see so many knockdown karateka also train in muay thai, kickboxing, etc. because the two arts compliment each other so well. In fact, I have known many people that hold muay thai title belts that actually don't train in muay thai. Unfortunately some schools advertise that they train muay thai just because they have fighters that fight under muay thai rules. One such gym that is now closed when I first started in muay thai would never allow their fighters to even fight with knees and rarely without shin pads LOL. So, they never even truly fought under muay thai rules (modified or full) However, a karate mawashi geri typically isn't taught in muay thai if you train in a Thai muay thai gym. There have been trainers like Master Sken and Master Toddy who also hold high ranks in TKD and will teach TKD kicks that are modified as they see fit to work in muay thai. Or if your kru/arjarn holds past experience in karate they may teach you some karate style kicks. The other side of the coin is you don't see a muay thai dtae (round house kick) taught in karate dojo..unless that senpai/sensei/shihan/etc. has a muay thai background. The gedan mawashi geri taught in knockdown karate is usually taught as more of a downward cutting angle or drop versus the muay thai dtae which is like swinging your shin like a bat horizontally to the thigh but sometimes taught to turn your hip over too but it's not as snappy as karate mawashi geri.

I used the 'triangle method' for years meaning I focused on the head and shoulders. It worked for me alright but was asked to start staring into the eyes. For me this works better but took some practice and experience. It also helps draw your opponent's gaze into your eyes so you don't get distracted by hand movement often used by Thai Muay Thai stylists and knockdown karate fighters to distract you. What I will say is do not get in the habit of staring down at your opponent's legs and/or feet. I almost don't feel I should have to explain why but I will..you stare down, you'll get hit by something up top. Or you can be tricky and do this to bait your opponent, it's up to you.

I'm surprised it's helping. When I got into muay thai I didn't really progress until I temporarily forgot the karate I did for years. After I became proficient enough in muay thai I started to combine the karate I knew. In my experience it's very hard to learn a new martial art if you don't temporarily empty the cup before filling it up with new knowledge.

I have to add the caveat of good and bad kyokushin because it's out there. I'm not getting political with the different kyokushin groups neither, most of them are 110% legit. I won't say what my ideas are openly because people will get hurt, my post will be deleted and so on. My intention isn't to hurt peoples feelings but to help others interested in kyokushin find legit kyokushin and good instruction with no bias of the kyokushin org I'm under, neither. Just trying to give some advice to the original poster that actually pertains to him learning kyokushin and not something else with the kyokushin name. Message me if you want to know more.

Worked for Mas Oyama What worked for Mas Oyama? Mas Oyama held verifiable rank in Judo, Shotokan, and Goju ryu so I fail to see the similarity between the two men. Maybe I'm missing something in your comment but if not I think you need to rethink what you posted.

To cut to the chase I don't agree with many on here what is Okinawan, Westernized, Japanese, etc. karate. I honestly don't care if someone makes up a style as long as they know what they're doing and are honest about it instead of making up some fictional lineage/history. Back to the original poster's concern..shotokan to kyokushin is fine. You'll have to unlearn and relearn certain things and I doubt will want to go back to shotokan if you find a good kyokushin dojo.

To play devil's advocate here, I would like to say, "the more focused on technique the less effective for fighting?". There needs to be a happy medium between technique and 'full contact'. Focusing on the sundome method of kumite and too compliant training methodologies IMHO doesn't prepare someone adequately. This coming from someone that had a shodan in goju ryu and a nidan in shito ryu before taking up muay thai and kyokushin. I currently am a nidan in kyokushin working on my sandan. I will never go back to my USANKF/WKF kumite days.

Purple belt in BJJ, Kru in muay thai, shodan in goju ryu, nidan in shito ryu, and nidan in kyokushin. I hold a few other ranks in other styles but I primarily focus on BJJ, Muay Thai, and kyokushin these days. Working on my sandan/3rd dan in Kyokushin now. The organization I'm under for kyokushin requires a 50 man kumite as one of the requirements for sandan so focusing quite a bit on that aspect of my training right now.

A $150-250 dogi has a lot more quality over a $75 dogi. In my experience it is worth it buying an Isami, Kyoku-sen, tokaido, shureido, toyo, etc. However, I prefer Isami and Kyoku-sen 'full contact' karate dogi over the latter brands I mentioned now. I can get 2-3 years use, if not more out of an $150+ dogi. I think a kyoku-sen will run you about $150 with shipping from Singapore with kanji and katakana name embroidery right now, too. You email directly with the owner of the company, too.