joesteph

Hi Damen! Welcome to the forums!

When I took TKD in the past, it was GM Son's Tae Kwon Do. The side kick was just like this, that the back leg went to the front, not the back, of the front leg. When I did the kick as a friend had already shown me, with the back leg moving up behind the front leg, it was much easier to do, but I'd be corrected. When practicing as a group, I'd do it the slower, required way; if sparring, the more efficient, comfortable way. Years later, now that I'm taking Soo Bahk Do, the back leg moves up behind the front leg. Perhaps everyone should be "as one" when doing a demo together, but if that's not what you're into, then it's whether your kick is effectively executed or not that's important.

Class tonight with my sons - they started with a racing game, which got them focused - self-defense techniques - "sparring" that included getting them to do multiple strikes, so that if I tapped their protective vest on the front design, they responded with two punches and two roundhouses - takedowns At the end of class, the boys received another stripe. This makes two orange stripes and two green stripes. Four more to go, and then they can test for green belt, but that might not be till year's end. No problem. Home Leg stretches Front swing kicks Kicking exercises lying on floor: - roundhouse and side kicks Sparring exercises; Self-defense techniques Forms:* - Pyung Ahn Cho Dan - Chil Sung E Ro Hyung - Pyung Ahn E Dan** *I started doing each form at least twice. Main problem? Don't mix the moves from one form into another! **In speaking with my teacher, I was correct that I'd found an arm seize, kick to the ribs, and a punch to the midsection within the second half of the form.

I did find this video interesting, Michi. I think the key ingredient in knife defense is movement more than anything, whether brought out in a kata or in a special anti-knife exercise. It's not like taking a punch in order to deliver two; there's not much margin for error--if there's any at all. The former assistant instructor at my dojang, who's now a certified instructor himself, had told me last year while going for his certification that there was a change in one of the Soo Bahk Do defenses against an overhand stab. There was too much force-against-force as opposed to getting out of the way, meaning getting stabbed in the head. I'm sure I'd look bad and feel even worse if I had a knife sticking out of the top of my head.

What post are you referring to here? The original one. My questions were specifically about what I was being shown and how I saw what I considered weaknesses. The idea of slashing the hands came from a black belt who told me this some years ago, and the strike to the face is from my awareness that the knife wielder still does have a free hand to fight with. I'm not clear what you mean by invulnerable and force fields, FitOrDie, but I thought that your second and third paragraphs in the posting this quote comes from contributed to the discussion.

I like this series of videos, Bushido_Ruach, especially the computer-generated "see-through" fighters. I knew that a solid shot to the armpit hit a nerve center, and I've thought of a strike to the neck using the forearm like a club as blunt force trauma. It might stun someone enough to knock him out. There was some "media hype" about the hammer fist blow to the chest and dim mak, but I think of that strike to the sternum as a valid one. I've practiced on BOB using a palm heel, instead, for a greater chance to be precisely between the pectoral muscles. I've wondered if a really strong strike there could fracture the sternum. Interesting video.

Cross's video links remind me of the video my friend I had used in the past to train to defend against the blade. It was by Marc "Animal" MacYoung, and he demonstrated that a thrusting knife attack is not always like fencing (the blade being forward and the stab moving straight at your midsection), and can be like the "grab and stab." His demo had him suddenly raising one forearm up horizontally, the other hand holding the knife, and then he slammed into his partner, grabbing with the hand of the slamming forearm, while he poked holes in the midsection with the other hand. The idea of the hard slap against a thrust and getting off the center line, which I referred to in my last posting, was from MacYoung demonstrating against a straight stab. MacYoung demonstrated the hard slap to deflect, then how to get away; he didn't demonstrate disarming/defeating the opponent, although my friend and I improvised what we thought would counter. I wonder if the anti-blade disarms, with the knife-wielder being defeated, really only work against the untrained knifer. A punk with a knife would more than likely have less method to his madness than someone trained in knife attacks, like the guest instructor (or his students) I referred to in my OP.

Class tonight with my sons, an "extra" our teacher offered us for today, especially with snow coming and possibly cancelling class tomorrow - the boys did side kick exercises lying on the floor, and not against air, but against kick shields that leaned against the wall - "sparring," one boy with our teacher, the other boy with me, the boys allowed to make contact (and I'm surprised at how high a seven-year old can roundhouse--right to my solar plexus, again and again) - self-defense techniques After class, there was time before the next class started, and the boys made up their own form as they went along, announcing blocks and strikes that they and Dad did together.

At my belt level, there are eight one-steps, but I really think of them as four sets; they're mirror images (to block and counterattack from your left side; to block and counterattack from your right). They start with the lunge punch (which I call the "sitting duck"), but that's to have a point of reference. The first set has you knife hand blocking while getting off center line. It's simple, it's sensible, and it gets it into your head that you've got to get moving if you're attacked. The first counter-strike against the opponent is a punch to the ribs, turning your body into it for more force. It's interesting because it's natural to think of a shot to the head first, but my instructor, who's 5'10", will shoot to one side, her knife hand barely blocking because she's moved that fast, and when she fires off that punch, it's right to my lower ribs--despite the 4" height difference between us. Then there are other strikes. This first move of blocking while moving, then striking immediately, is actually put into our warm-up exercises ("air" opponent). The second set starts off with a block that has never been explained as to how it's anything other than "traditional." I've thought of ways it can be interpreted, but it's never been satisfactory. The third set has a front kick as the first defensive move, then there's an immediate punch to the face. It's followed by another kick. I think it's fine to consider that the opponent coming at you might be dealt with by a simple, straightforward kick to the midsection to take the steam out of him, especially if he's rushing into it. (Like walking into a punch.) I understand that Muay Thai fighters maintain distance using a pushing front kick. The fourth set, IMO, is really a training exercise to use the same leg to kick with twice, incorporating changing from one kick into another. What I like is that there's an assortment of simple sparring exercises that don't employ the lunge punch and are kind of fun. When they're part of the lesson for the night, they pep things up.

Thanks, Brian. It's an interesting comparison with the Wing Tsun dummy. Class tonight with my sons - the boys did kicking exercises lying on the floor for the first time - punching and kicking a WaveMaster with "squeaky" targets on it - takedowns - Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Home Leg stretches Front swing kicks Kicking exercises lying on floor: - roundhouse and side kicks Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Chil Sung E Ro Hyung Pyung Ahn E Dan

Different opinions here. I did a limited amount of anti-knife work way in the past with a friend, concentrating just on the thrust, not on diagonal slashes or overhead stabs, as the thrust alone took a lot of time to figure out and work on. I'd already received an observation from a black belt that he, using a blade, would look to cut the hands, so we concentrated on keeping the hands where we felt we could shoot them out. The hands were, as I remember, held at about solar plexus high, and to the sides. The slap we practiced was practiced strong, movement was off the center line, and we then had to work on seizing the knife hand. Actually, we worked on seizing the wrist and pushing the knife-holding arm against the chest of the attacker. The idea was to shove, and we used both hands, one to pin/smother the knife hand, the other to seize the attacker's throat--and shove-walk the opponent back. This practice was done in my friend's living room, not a training hall. Trying to imitate a Peyton Quinn video on grabbing the knife hand didn't succeed. If we tried to grab the knife hand, hoping to blend with the attacker, such as to pull the knife past us, or, if he pulled back, to push it past him, we never got it to work. The two problems were: if grabbing the knife hand and pulling, the attacker would tend to redirect the knife into the defender's body; if grabbing the knife hand and pushing, not to his chest but to his side, he pulled, the knife hand hold was compromised, and then came the thrust to the defender's body. My friend and I did the best we could, and we didn't do badly, but, as I said above, it was a lot of work on just the straight thrust.

I started taking self-defense jujitsu on Saturdays, taught by a sensei who is skilled in Vee Arnis--a Filipino art. He had an ankle injury, so a guest instructor taught this past Saturday. I thought we were going to be doing defense against knife attacks, but we were instructed in how to take a knife and attack an unarmed individual. I didn't realize this at first, as we were instructed in all the attack areas, but when we got to anti-knife defensive moves, he showed how to counter them and still knife the person. I went along for an appropriate period of time and then excused myself. I am not making a judgment about knife fighting any more than if a sticks sensei instructed us. My question is about defense against the blade. In practicing as the one using defensive moves, I actually did learn something about defending against diagonal slashes to the upper and lower sections of the torso. However, I had to keep my hands in an "up" position (instead of by my sides, waiting to thrust them out) and wait for the slash to come, then make my move to stop it. I was fairly successful, but I believe that the "hands up" position did not make sense. If I were attacking with a knife, I'd see the hands as targets and slash them. There was also a middle thrust to the midsection, not straight, but like an uppercut to the solar plexus. When Sensei first did this movement against me, I got off what I call the center line, lightly (as I was unsure of what was expected of me) slapping the outside of his right wrist/hand with my left hand. He corrected me that I should be seizing the knife hand with both hands at the wrist/lower forearm. I did as instructed, but I don't see how his free hand couldn't just palm heel my face, maybe breaking my nose and help free his knife hand. (His counter to my two-handed grab was to slam down on my wrists with his free hand, freeing the blade for stabbing use.) Have any members done defense against the blade? Am I in the right about the hands being slashed in the "up" position? Is my thought to move off the center line rather than immediately grab the wrist correct?

Welcome to the forums, Empty Hand. I teach history (and other social studies) on the high school level.

I disagree. This leaves out the family man and the career woman who also study intently. Everyone need not be, nor be the equivalent of, a Shaolin monk. No. You're directing your posts to those whom you consider to be in the category of how you define "martial artist." It's so narrow, most members of these forums wouldn't be "directed at" because we lead broader lives. Which leads us to what BDPulver and Tori respond with:

In 2000, my age being forty-eight, my hands were so overworked by a combination of weight-training and working on the house (including landscaping) I'd purchased, that there were pains at the base of each thumb and an actual interference with both thumbs' movement occurred. I was in the gray area of an operation at the base of both thumbs. Instead, I took injections into the base each thumb--twice. It was right in the joint, hurt like mad while being administered, and hurt like mad for the next two days from the medication injected. The pain ended, not only from the medication but from the overwork. Full mobility returned. I never got the operations and continued weight-training for the next three years.

My boys are special needs, and started with private instruction for the first sessions. It was a good intro, in that they knew what to do, and I'd say could feel they knew what to do, when they joined the class. I also supplemented what was done in class with some time doing the same at home ("comfort zone"), giving praise whenever the boys did their karate tasks with me. I started with hand-held targets. I was painfully shy as a child. Shyness is not a crime, but it affects one's quality of life. And it becomes a deep-set pattern of life, too. I'm glad that you and his parents are so involved in helping him now, when the foundation is laid.

Hi Erin! Welcome to KarateForums!

Class: Self-defense jujitsu Guest instructor in use of knife offensively, not self-defense against knife attacks. Next Saturday, class will return to self-defense. Home Leg stretches Front swing kicks Kicking exercises lying on floor: - roundhouse and side kicks Sparring exercises; Self-defense techniques Ki Cho Hyungs (Il, E, Sam Bu) Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Chil Sung E Ro Hyung Pyung Ahn E Dan

Hi Joel, I don't know if you've checked the Introductions section, but when you did, I gave a guess on January 18 that you were in intelligence.

Black Belt Magazine has its issues from the early 1960s to 2004 online for free reading. I found an article titled "One Strike, One Kill vs. Multiple Strikes" on p. 104 in the October 2004 issue at: http://books.google.com/books?id=ZtsDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA8&dq=Black+Belt&lr=&source=gbs_toc_pages&cad=0_1#PPA104,M1 From the article, p. 106: "You never really know what effect any given strike will have; therefore you're obligated to strike until there is no longer a threat," says Chuck Sullivan, a kenpo master . . . "[if you don't] strike continuously with rapidity, you'll be required to evaluate the situation after each strike, which can give your opponent a chance to recover." The article's an interesting read.

What's the "statue drill," Brian? Home BOB: - jab, cross, uppercut, hook punches - other hand strikes - finger, elbow, and forearm strikes Ki Cho Hyungs (Il, E, Sam Bu) Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Chil Sung E Ro Hyung Pyung Ahn E Dan Class unfortunately cancelled for tonight

Michi, are you suggesting separating (dividing?) Hike-Te from hip rotation, and by this I mean that Hike-Te would be more towards power generated from the arms and shoulders in motion, while the hip rotation lends power independently? Hips and the uppermost torso would then be separate but in concert contributors to power.

In the forms I perform at my level, there are a number of punches, for example, in which I've been instructed to have the non-punching hand extended forward to where I'm punching, the hand in the form of a fist, and then, when punching, pull back the non-punching hand as fast as the punching one while throwing my hip into it. It's not an exaggerated hip movement; I like SlowHands' reference to "a little more 'snap' to the rotation." Some postings have referred to breathing. I've had to learn to let that air out, to expel it when striking, and I can feel the greater power.

Home Leg stretches Front swing kicks Kicking exercises lying on floor: - roundhouse and side kicks Ki Cho Hyungs (Il, E, Sam Bu) Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Chil Sung E Ro Hyung Pyung Ahn E Dan Class with my instuctor's teacher and former assistant instructor, too - Various kicks - Self-defense techniques - Sparring exercises - "Ki Cho" exercises (We move forward as a line, but there's calling out to us, based on belt level, the two-three moves we're to make with each call) - Forms I have two problems with Ki Cho exercises. The first is that, if there's a background noise (in this case, heat by air duct), it's hard for me to hear the calls, which are in Korean. The second is that it takes me extra time, and usually an extra call, to process what was said. I double-checked with my instructor's teacher about the second half of Pyung Ahn E Dan, although my teacher is only holding me accountable for the first half (as this hyung is no longer a requirement at my level; it's been bumped up to a higher one). I do know the moves (but I'm not proficient with them) in my self-study of the rest of the form. When my instructor returns and teaches it to me after testing, I want to discuss bunkai I'm sure I've found in that second half.

I practice Soo Bahk Do, a Korean art related to Tae Kwon Do. When I was younger and attended a few local tournaments, the forms competition couldn't hold my attention. Now, I'll watch the forms of others if the time presents, but it's more that I appreciate the work that they're doing, putting into it, than that the form itself is holding my attention. However . . . Once I've started doing forms beyond the three basics (necessary for someone like me, particularly for balance), I like doing the forms that I once watched others do, and analyzing them for bunkai. The new forms, in order of my introduction to them, are Pyung Ahn Cho Dan, Chil Sung E Ro Hyung, and Pyung Ahn E Dan. I've approached my teacher more than one time with a "discovery." It's not that we're not told of bunkai within the form, it's that everything can't be said (information overload), especially if one movement can open up two or three possibilities. For me, the fun is in the doing and either finding something within, or knowing/picturing where a move or moves lead.