tallgeese

That's kind of a tough one, and there are probibly better people on thei site to answer it than me. There were plenty of old text about combat, at what point it becomes specifically "karate" is beyond me. You might want to check out The Bubishi, it's an old translated ma text. Pretty good if memory serves. I think it dates back a ways.

Very nice site, Michi. Even for me .

Well, we're all have to go over there and finish up (Aikido was in the title wasn't it ). No offense was taken John, I was just trying to make sure I didn't ruffle any feathers.

And they will probibly continue to get longer, but that's a good thing. Good luck, let us know how you do.

3.5 mile run.

I've always stated, or at least implied I hope, that there are many reasons that one would want to study the ma's. Mine is not the only viewpoint out there. Being a discussion board, that's the view that I work from. It is not the only legitimate one out there. I agree with joe that anyone should definatly go and observe, even try a class, to see if it is what they want out of the time they are going to put in. Conversly, instructors need to be sure that they are not trying to sell a product to a student who they can clearly tell is interested in other aspects of the ma's.

Sake.....you're a better person than I. I still have ni ghtmares about the stuff from my bb ceremony. That being said, I don't know the name of it, but some trad schools observe some kind of old priniciple of taking a signifigant day out of the year and training past their limits as a way to push themselves and see where they've come. It's really not a bad idea at all I t hink. I don't remember what it's called off the top of my head. Morgan talks about it in his book, Living the Martial Way. Maybe it's that?

This is a good discussion, and so far off topic even I have to stop and apologize. Now, as to what was said above, Michi, you say things like what I list above should be taught along side the systems primary objectives. To me, it seems like, aside from principle based concepts, the kind of thing is at the heart of a goal set. At least when it's applied in a realistic setting.

I agree, odd. Hard to tell really. Probibly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, that's all. I might ask a few more questions...

Nice, I think we've probibily all indulged today. Yeah, I think it's from benching by and large. I'm taking it off the weights this week. We'll see how it feels by nest week. It is better today.

No, bushido man and I aren't that close . It's pragmatism, that's all. This stuff really isn't rocket science at the end of the day. We're all built the same, same things hurt. There's only so many ways to apply that hurt. Then, it's about efficiency.

I wouldn't say it fails, nor would I assume to speak for bushido man. I would say that it wouldn't meet my standard for what I wanted, and still want to pass on, out of the ma's. Not to say you shouldn't be training for life, I have been consistantly since I set foot a mat waaaay back when I was 16. I don't think you should be an expert, in 6 months to a year. Just have an increase in capacity to defend yourself in a signifigant manner. Let's think about it, good sd basics: princlples that help you survive a decent stance you can move out of abilty to turn some power into strikes- figure eye gouge, a few punch combs, coverage patterns. maybe a handful of releases from grabs and such a kick or two (say groin, MT round) Now, are you an mma stud or a streetwise ninja? Nope, but a good undertstanding of survial in typical situations has started to take hold. You should be able to do this within 6 months. Now, tack on some knife/club work, ground defense, sprawling and an improvement in the first block and you can be out to a year. Again, no profighter here but one who is very capable of taking care of himself quite a bit IF, and this is a biggie: IF you've trained hard, with intensity and a single minded purpose. Mindset, the biggest weapon we have. There's no pass or fail here, just what you want to do and the amount of time you're willing to spend to do it.

Ran 3.5 miles today. Man, am I sick of my bum shoulder already.

Only if they are done well.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

I'd offer a word of caution on the tap out refusal. As nice as it is to gut thru this sort of thing, remember you're tapping for a reason. Usually to avoid the destruction of a joint. If it's a pain compliance only sort of thing, that's one thing. But if anything is in a position to get torn or injured tap. It's what training's for.

Could it have been apprached better, yeah probibly. Still, no harm no foul. Some people work under different rules of ettiquette and such. As for the language, who knows. Might be a perfectly good explination.

I think that this should be a natural outgrowth of training. It has to do partly with the constant beatingw we take. On another level, it's develping the will that continues to get up off the mat week after week. It's both and should happen as a result of training. If it dosen't, I'd question the methodology of the training.

Not much point fighting experiance, but some stuff that's worked really well for me in my venues- High flurrys finished with hooks, follow up with upper cut. I've probibly used this set up for more quality ringers than any other. Jab series followed by a slip to the outside and lead hook. Good opener. MT round kick to thigh, if they back out chamber and extend to side kick (yes I kick )

Sparring is a great way to test things. Open the rules of engagement up and work those targets that are often kept off limits. Let guys counter you while attempting things, this will bring you up to speed much more quickly than dry simulation runs alone. Set up limited engagment situations, where you work a specific movement patter against only certain attacks. But do it against a full speed attacker, one who can counter you. This will show you how to make things work as well. Lastly, bushido man is right, simulation training is one of the most valuable toos we have. Set up a situation, then have an opponant really attack. Not spar with you, attack. Do it realitically and once comfortable, let him counter, and you'll be suprised at the testing of movements you get out of it.

I agree.

The quote joe used I actually meant in regards to breaking up you little hand bones by accident during contact that may, and often does occur, during a fight. Still, it's important to note that everyone has this idea that just by smashing someone in the throat you'll automatically disable them. Nothing is beyond the realm of possibility, of course. And you might very well do just that. However, you are just as likely to do serious tissue damage without blocking the trachea. Can't put all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

today (as I continue to nurse my shoulder) crossfit (modified) 5 rounds of: 1/4 mile run 30 roman chair sit ups 30 squats, 155 lbs 1/4 mile cool down jog

Then when fighting shorter opponant, swicth tactics. It's not that what you're doing is bad overall, it's just that it apparently is not working in these situations. I'd suggest staying up and crashing the distance gap. Cover and go. Not recklessly, but pull the trigger quiker at an opening. Heck, even force one a bit. Cover your head well and get tight. Push them to the wall if you have to. Make sure you don't rush blindly ahead so they can simply piviot out of the way, keep the head up and eyes on them and keep throwing as you get tight. This will put him on his heels and keep him from throwing at you. I know, it's a bit backwards, we are always telling shorter people to crash. But if you're not having luck at a distacne, crash and bring you're weight to bear on them. If you can grapple, tie up and really push them around until you can effect a takedown. A bit unorthodox, but it shoudl work.

Ok, I had to do a search to kind of figure out some of those but I think I've got a bit of an idea now. As for a spear hand bing faster, maybe or maybe not. It's hard to tell and probibly has more to do with the mechanics of each's thrower than anything. The throat is harder to hit at speed than most think anyway, but even then I'd rather have a fist or forarm in it, there's just more chance of contact and again, less energy escape from the system. As for nerve clusters, I can't really speak to that, but stiff fingers hanging out are a great way to get them hurt in any application. I'm a big fan of grabbing the throat and such, I've just never bothered to call it anything but grabbing the throat. As for the last, it's the one that strikes with the middle row of phalangies right? The first row of knuckes extended and the second bent forward? Yes, there is a smaller striking area, but again we go back to more internsic movement across the whole striking chain. That leads to escaping energy during contact. That's less energy that you're transfering to the bad guys brain bucket. I agree iut would probibily hurt, but I just don't see what it does that a standard punch can't do. Not to mention that you're making contat wiht the tiny little bones of the finger rather than the larger end surfaces of the bone. It seems like a likley way to get them broke. Not a fight ender to be sure, but a nuscience none the less. Just my thoughts.