Chivalry?

[SBN Doug]

You're last statement is pretty much what I was addressing in a recent article I wrote for KF on chivalry.

 

Ironically, I wrote it about 3 weeks before this whole thread got started.

[Bart the Lover]

Valithor:

 

My questions are posed in a genuine spirit of inquiry, and are not intended

 

to sound hostile or accusing. It can be difficult to convey that sense in

 

writing. I apologise in advance if they come across like that.

 

You wrote:

Why do we need roles? Human beings have a rational and emotional brain. For these functions to biologically develop properly a social structure is required.

 

Why must social structures be based on different roles for the sexes? What

 

is so special about sex differences (whatever you believe them to be, or

 

not to be) that they require strict demarcation into separate acceptable

 

behaviours? People differ in many ways. We don't find it necessary to

 

assign roles according to religion or creed. And who decides? You? Me?

 

Should penalties be imposed if the roles are subverted?

A patriarchal way of thinking has dominated the world for centuries. It is a system that has worked well.

 

It has indeed worked well. For men. This is like saying slavery works

 

because it benefits the enslaving nation or people.

A debate such as this can turn from a logical and productive conversation into an emotional argument when the historical or contemporary cultural roles of "men" and "women" are confused or wrongly assosiated with the physiological and psycho-sexual differences.

 

I'm not emotional. Nor are the other posters, with the exception of fireka.

 

And what should roles be associated with?

Men have been and currently are (but maybe not always) bigger and stronger than women.

 

On average, I agree. But why does that impose upon men the obligation

 

to give up their seat on the bus? I'm sorry to return to this example yet

 

again, but no-one has given me a compelling reason for this. Women can

 

climb Everest. They can run marathons. They can hunt, shoot, and dive

 

deeper than anyone else. But they can't stand for ten minutes on a bus.

 

Why?

We all live in a physical world

 

Speak for yourself! I try to spend as much time as possible in a world of

 

fantasy. It's so much nicer there...

Rich people should help the poor.

 

I agree.

Smart people should educate the ignorant.

 

I've encountered a number of smart-and-ignorant people. But I agree that

 

the ones with knowledge should share it with others.

 

On a final note, incidental to the matter in hand: please do not draw

 

attention to mistakes in my writing. It's very rude. I try as much as is

 

humanly possible to eliminate typos, spelling errors and correct missing

 

words. It makes posts easier to read, for one thing. I don't correct other

 

people, and I ask that you extend the same courtesy to me. Thank you.

 

Regards,

 

Bart the Lover

[ZR440]

why do women want to be like men anyway? were ...., and generally stupider than you!

 

Speak for yourself.

[Valithor]

My questions are posed in a genuine spirit of inquiry..

 

Thank-you for your reply. I enjoy such debates

Why must social structures be based on different roles for the sexes?

 

Good point - I see no reason why they have to be. I think the world is heading in that direction.

It has indeed worked well. For men. This is like saying slavery works because it benefits the enslaving nation or people.

 

Not sure its entirely accurate to compare a patriachal system with slavery..

why does that impose upon men the obligation to give up their seat on the bus?

 

I suspect its the combination of many factors. Possibly a combination of the "men are stronger" factor, a general "love thy neighbour", a "respect your elders", and probably a large degree of a courting gesture.

But they can't stand for ten minutes on a bus.Why?

 

I don't think its ever really been about "can't"... A 50kg woman may well be able to carry two 15kg suitcases from the car to the airport, but it would be more efficient for a 90kg man to carry them. (Considering a man and woman of average build/fitness)

I've encountered a number of smart-and-ignorant people.

 

I'm embarassed to have written smart instead of knowledgable. Although its consistent with common usage, it is incorrect. I'm normally the one pointing that out.. Life is wonderful.

 

 

On a final note..

 

My sincerest apologies.

 

Keep smiling,

 

V

[King of Fighters]

I couldnt have said it better fireka.

[King of Fighters]

AW crap, i didnt see that there were 6 more pages.

[Bart the Lover]

Hello again, Valithor. Thank you for your response.

 

You wrote:

Not sure its entirely accurate to compare a patriachal system with slavery..

 

I should have made my meaning clearer. I wasn't comparing patriarchy

 

with slavery (I agree that would be over the top), I was pointing out that

 

asserting a system works tells us nothing about right and wrong. I could

 

prevent a thief stealing my possessions by cutting off his/her hands, but

 

it would not be a reasonable act. There must be justification other than 'it

 

works'.

...and probably a large degree of a courting gesture.

 

Now there's an old fashioned word! My grandmother used to say 'courting'

 

and it always made me think of people prancing around in Elizabethean

 

clothes to a plinky-plink soundtrack.

I don't think its ever really been about "can't"... A 50kg woman may well be able to carry two 15kg suitcases from the car to the airport, but it would be more efficient for a 90kg man to carry them. (Considering a man and woman of average build/fitness)

 

In this example, I think it is perfectly acceptable to offer to carry the

 

suitcases. But this doesn't compare to giving up a seat. Men have greater

 

absolute strength, allowing them to carry and lift heavier weights. A woman

 

on a bus is only required to support her own weight, which she can do

 

perfectly well. The greater absolute strength of men is not really relevant

 

here.

I enjoy such debates

 

It's been fun, hasn't it? Like a workout for the brain (God knows my brain

 

could do with it).

 

Regards,

 

Bart the Lover