Chivalry?

[SaiFightsMS]

yea, sai's post was lvely grand, but off topic, intresting since shes the one whose supposed to stop threads from being off topic. im just messing with you sai, because this is the first time i think ive ever disagreed with you about anything. not because of what you said, but were you said it. this topic is on chivalry, which despite what i have said, what sai has said, what fenris said, what we all here have said, has nothing to do with politeness. if you read the actuall code of the original chivalry, you will find it contains a lot of things about politeness and all that hoplah, and a lot of other stuff you probsably didnt expect or know about, some of it may even appal you. for instance, according to the code, its okay for a guy to have up to 20 girls! also, its okay to pronounce your crush on a married woman to the world, and to try and seduce her. its what we call Courtly love, but with a twist on what hollywood tries to make it. technically neither party could act on it but the seduction was still there and encouraged. true chivalry is not practiced anymore today or at least is rare to the point of oblivion. none of us have adressed what chivalry really is, includeing me, because we are stuck on the idea created by N. america (much like how many aspects of karate were screwed by the USA) of chivalry.

 

Good point Fireka. At the time in history when the code of chivalry came into existance the world was a very rude place. Much of what became simple everyday politeness actually came from the code of chivalry as it trickled down from the upper nobility to the common people. (And we thought Reagans trickle down theory was a new idea!)

 

In many ways in civilized areas I think civility has regressed and some areas are regressing into the rudeness of the past. Not a good thing. Chivalry or common politeness and manners? I think a general return to the descendent of chivalry would improve the world.

[Kirves]

To me, "chivalry" today is when a guy makes a big show of rushing in front of me to get every door. Or when I'm relieved of a bag that a toddler could carry, or when I'm told not to be silly when I get my wallet out when the check comes, or when a guy leaps out of his seat on the subway and looks offended when I don't take it

 

Well, I personally didn't mean chivalry should go that far. Sounds ludicrous. I only do it in situations where it seems natural. For example, if I sit in a full hot steaming bus that is riding to another county, perhaps four hour trip. I notice that some middle aged woman is getting very sweaty standing in the hot wobbling bus and apparently isn't enjoying herself. Then I may curteously offer her a seat. But not that I give my seat to any woman with a skirt any time. Nor do I run from door to door trying to act as a butler.

[Kirves]

if you read the actuall code of the original chivalry, you will find it contains a lot of things

 

Sure, but if we were discussing the whole of chivalry code, it should've been defined first in the poll before assuming votes and replies. I believe we were talking in modern terms, as the modern everyday "chivalry" is a bit different than the medieval code written for the knights. If we are very picky, then we could say that all those who vote yes, must also become knights of the crown and so on, so let's not take that road.

[telsun]

I pride myself in my gentleman ways and in being an all round nice guy. Right or wrong? Who cares, I feel good for being this way and I am sure that other people appreciate it too.

[Martial_Artist]

I know of a quote on a professor's door in a university.

 

"So, you're a feminist? That's cute."

 

 

Anyways,

 

It doesn't matter to me what the woman thinks of what I'm doing. I don't do it to impress them. I don't do it because I think them weak, or helpless. (Which, by the way, is a very demeaning attack on the men who do take the time to be courteous. Degrading their actions into a sign of viewing women as weak.) I do it because I like to. I enjoy offering my seat. I enjoy holding doors, carrying bags, etc. I simply enjoy being polite.

 

Now, I do what I do simply because I was raised to be polite. Part of that system of politeness includes opening doors for women and offering my seat. That same code of politeness I follow has rules regarding men as well. Shaking hands when greeting. Not letting a door slam in their faces when exiting/entering a building.

 

So, I ask, "So, what?"

 

What does it matter that I open doors for women or offer my seat? What on this earth does it change? Who does it adversely affect? Why should anyone care?

 

Oh my, I'm sorry I opened the door for you. Oops, excuse my politeness. Here take my seat this may be a long trip. What? Someone is going to refuse a free seat like it's some kind of insult? Insult to what? I'll tell you what it is an insult to: foolish pride.

 

It takes a lot of pride to refuse the courtesy another person extends you. Especially since it is not done in a demeaning manner.

 

What a better world this would be were people more humble about themselves. Does it really take that much to rest and take a seat? Or let someone carry a bag, regardless of the weight?

 

If something as simple as common courtesy irks you perhaps you are not secure about yourself? Perhaps you feel you have something to prove? To whom, I ask? To the gentleman extending a courtesy he doesn't have to? A courtesy no one is forcing him to extend?

 

Please, I've heard and dealt with the foolish pride of lots of people all over the world. From both men and women.

 

Any man who "acts" chivalrous because he looks down upon women is a fool, and does not understand the purpose such acts are supposed to fulfill. Any woman who gets "offended" at being offered such a simple courtesy is an ungrateful person, and a fool full of pride.

 

Something as necessary in human life as common courtesy does not need to be met with so much hostility or rejection. It just needs to be accepted and reciprocated.

 

This is really not a complicated issue. It really isn't. Be grateful that in this world of uncaring and rude people there are people who still take the time out of their day to remember their fellowman...or woman. I mean, honestly, how bad is it that someone opens a door for you?

 

For me, I'll continue to be polite to strangers. I don't expect much in return, but, then again, that's not why I do it, is it?

 

MA.

 

p.s.

 

Forgive the rant. It's 12:50am here and I usually get carried away when I have no coherent control over myself at these odd hours.

[GrrrArg]

Fireka the word your looking for is naivety

 

I was talking abouyt the modern idea of chivalry when I started the thread because by and large the original code of chivalry was treated as a joke with only a few people really sticking to it. The knights in shinning armour portrayed by things such as the camelot ledgends were by and large very cruel men, no doubt there would have been some good in many of them, but the amount of cruelty they were cabable of is quite frankly astonishing. The code of chivalry was used by such people just as a means of keeping up appearances ie: a modern day crime lord donating money to charity etc:

 

I also agree with what Martial Artist said about over chivalrous types who look down on women and the super feminist women who hate chivalry. I to take pleasure in being nice, little acts of kindness can improve peoples days no end - do unto others etc:

 

Also I think that there is unfortunately some truth in what Fenris-Wolf said about chivalry being sexist towards men - when women expect chivalry it is annoying, i've seen girls at school walk up to a door and stand there waiting for some poor boy who is carrying her bags to open the door for her!..

[monkeygirl]

I think chivalry should go both ways...if a guy is nice enough to open the door for you, you should be thankful and maybe try to do something in return if the opportunity arises. I know I wouldn't appreciate it if I open a door for someone and they just rolled their eyes and said " It's about time!!! ".

 

A few weeks ago I went to the movies with some friends, and we were hanging out by the doors waiting for the rest of our group to show up. I was closest to the door, so I kept opening it for people. Some people said "Thanks", others looked shocked at my politeness, but many didn't even notice. One teenage guy even gave me an angry/hurt look! He was on a date with his girlfriend, and I had taken away his "manly duty" of opening the door

 

It's hard to be chivalrous if people don't appreciate it...but I still do it because I love the feeling of helping someone, even just a little bit. On those rare occasions when my holding the door open seems to make someone's day (it's usually a senior citizen), that makes it all worthwhile. Really.

[GrrrArg]

I know exactly what you mean Monkeygirl.

 

I remember once when I was in town I held open the door for an old lady, she looked shocked/surprised but grateful and managed to say thanks. I said to my friends "Why do people always look surprised when im nice?..", they said it was because I have really short hair so old people assume im a thug!

 

But yes it is nice to make someones day like that, give a good impression for the rest of us young thugs out there..

[fireka]

you know guys if we ever meet just please note i can open doors by myself but if you really want to help me out could you loan me like, ten bucks?

[mArTiAl_GiRl]

I'm glad I've met such a wonderful person like fireka, (I know it's off topic, sorry about that, but I just had to say that..) ......