Why do Traditional Martial Arts suck?

[aefibird]

I guess what I am trying to say is this......practice what YOU enjoy, and become good at it. You don't have anything to prove to anyone but yourself. Self defense can be and is learned from TMA's and from more modern arts. It's time to put away the egos and grow up a bit. People practice MA's for many different reasons, and for me fighting isn't as important as I grow older.

 

Good post, Fooey!

[Mart]

so whats is a traditional MA?

 

Has anyone figured this out yet?

 

Whats the opposite? Modern?

 

So whats a modern MA?

[Reklats]

Too many times in forums like this one there are * matches between posters over style effectiveness. Grapplers claim that strikers can't fight because they saw so and so lose to so and so on in the UFC, or their system is worthless because they don't address ground work as effectivly as BJJ schools. Strikers claim that grapplers can't touch them because they will kick them in the head when they shoot in. In all reality, who really gives a rat's *?

 

Some people value effectiveness in the MA that they do. I give a rat's *. Who wants to do a MA that will fail them if they need it?

I don't care what Royce Gracie or Cung Le, did to their opponets, the average MA will never obtain the skill of those guys. They are professionals, and their training is their means of support. They also possess natural talent and a fighting spirit that most people do not. Lets be realistic here, the average MA will not be able to perform at the level of the Gracies, regardless of what discipline of MA's they partake in. Could they defend against average Joe Blow, sure, but if they step up against a pro they will get creamed, and that includes the grapplers.

 

The cool thing about Royce Gracie is that he wasn't big, he wasn't strong, and he wasn't fast. He was just skilled. Using skill alone he beat bigger, stronger, faster, and older(training for longer) opponents, just using effective skills. That's why it's so cool. Doesn't every MA want to do that?

 

What scares me about TMA'ers is that for a while I did a different MA that told people they were learning effective self defense, while in truth average joe blow would've creamed them. It's like selling someone an empty can of pepper spray.

[Drunken Monkey]

the problem i see, isn't that 'traditional' martial arts are bad, it's the schools that teach them that are the problem, after all, let's not forget that for all intent purposes, the gracies learnt 'traditional' martial arts.

 

we've been through this before.

 

the question of effectiveness is in the training.

 

bjj schools are successful because they train a lot harder and a lot more than the majority of martial schools out there.

 

muay thai is successful because they fight everytime they go into training (and muay thai is a very 'traditional' martial art...).

 

what's missing from the majority of martial arts schools out there is this level of hard training.

 

i have always said, if you train to fight, it doesn't matter what style you practice.

 

the most basic move in ALL martial arts involves one person hitting another.

 

it might look different but if you practice to hit the other person (i.e actually do it), you will get good at it.

 

conversely, if you don't practice to hit the other guy, you will not.

[Reklats]

I 100% agree Drunken Monkey. The problem is that lame training methods are almost always synonymous with TMAs. This lame training then fails to filter out the lame moves that don't work. I think it's criminal.

 

It enrages me to think of how we were shown stupid taekwondo techniques, and then told that they were ultra-effective. I really hope no one from my old TKD class ever has to defend themself.

[Karateka]

I have been a firm believer that it is not the martial art that makes an effective fighter, but the martial artist. I have personally found Kata to be an excellent fighting tool for me to train with. It provides great cardio vascular training for endurance that is necessary for a street fight. It is necessary not because of the length of a street fight, but learning how to fight with an accelerated heartrate. Secondly, I found that Kata allowed me to practice different basic techniques with a speed and power that can work for me. Thirdly, I learned the bunkai of the techniques in order that allowed me to learn and study the application of the techniques. Lastly, I realised that a Kata is just a set of short combinations put together. Some have seen Kata as one long attack, it isn't. It is just different opponents being faced with a different situation. Doing Kata over and over again puts different combinations of techniques into muscle memory that will come out in a real situation. Learning different bunkai that extend from that one combination that can lead to an all out assault is another crucial part of the training.

 

I also feel that the Western ideal of getting the most out of anything in the shortest amount of time does not allow a person to see the multi-faceted aspect of "traditional" martial arts. To bring a definition to "traditional martial arts" i would have to say that traditional refers to arts which have kept similar training standards and ideology in the face of a cultural evolution rather than adapting itself too much so as to lose the core influence of it. Some western students are now looking for how to beat the heck out of someone without learning anything about what was passed on in that style from generation to generation. That is all well and good, but understand that you are learning to fight, not to become a controlled person.

 

Traditional Martial Arts do not suck. They do teach you how to fight effectively. They just ask for a bit more of an open mind regarding culture, patience with an instructor, and imagination. Traditional Martial arts try to show you how to apply any lessons you learn from them into the different facets of your life such as a work environment, school life, or even family life. A martial art which focuses on teaching you how to fight, only wants you to learn things about fighting. These latter arts, in my opinion, are better to be called fighting arts rather than martial arts. The connotation of martial refers to military, and for the military you need a certain discipline and way of thinking in order to be an effective soldier. And being an effective soldier means more than being an effective killing machine.

 

Fighting arts lack the "way of life" aspect to their art and are based on the notion of combat and self defence. Martial arts try to teach a discipline and a new way of looking at ones entire lifestyle. I know my "traditional" martial art taught me to look at my fellow man around me in a different light. Not as targets, but as persons on a different path than I am. It taught me a lot about myself and where I wish to go in life and how I wish to go about it. The fighting art I was in before taught me nothing of that. It taught me about what I would like to do to the other guy and embrace it.

 

The instructor one may have also plays a crucial part in the development of an individual. Instructor's are role models and are emmulated by their students. The attitude that an instructor has towards others and how they live their lifestyle can project itself on to other students, especially younger ones, and become their own viewpoint. This can be both rewarding and damaging. It is rewarding because it can provide a positive example for people in the real world. However, it can stop someone from developing their own ideas towards things and thus not allowing someone to develop into their own sense of self. If an instructor does not teach/know the way any martial or fighting art's teaching is supposed to be done, then the student will suffer with a bag full of confidence and a lack of useful skills.

 

To conclude, don't bash an art because it takes "too long to teach you how to fight". It may be doing that because its purpose was not to teach you how to fight...well, maybe not its primary purpose, anyway.

 

Regards,

 

RJ Wallia

[FlailingLimbs]

(in refference to the 100 techs statement)

 

I don't think that's what he meant. I believe what he is saying is be afraid of someone who uses properly developed techniques, as opposed to someone who uses a million barely-trained techniques.

[italian_guy]

Well put Karateka,

 

your post deserve to be treated as an article.

[Draven Chen Zhen]

Well put Karateka,

 

your post deserve to be treated as an article.

 

That's a fact.

 

Nice job Karateka !!

[SBN Doug]

I must agree.

 

Very well put, Karateka.