G95champ Posted June 25, 2003 Posted June 25, 2003 I would say with the rise of things like the UFC eveyone has now taken notice of the importance of the groud game. Most TMA don't get into any ground work until later in your training and then its not a lot. As far as kata goes I will back kata as being the greatest training tool until the day that I die. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
GrrrArg Posted June 26, 2003 Posted June 26, 2003 Kata as a whole would not work, you would have to rely on your oponent attacking in exactly the correct manner-the people who "wrote" the kata's would have known this and not intended for kata to be used in this manner. However if you understand the bunkai of the kata they can become VERY useful training tools as they can done almost anywhere without a training partner. Understanding the bunkai also means that your subconcious will remember the moves in the same way as it does with basics and this is when kata becomes useful. Anyone who says kata is useless doesn't understand what kata is.
Treebranch Posted June 26, 2003 Posted June 26, 2003 GrrArg said: Kata as a whole would not work, you would have to rely on your oponent attacking in exactly the correct manner-the people who "wrote" the kata's would have known this and not intended for kata to be used in this manner. You are absolutely right. This is to give you good form and movement. Practicing these forms helps you move efficiently in a real situation. In a real situation you will be reacting naturally, and all the techniques you've learn will all mess together into pure free response to what the attacker is giving you. You will discover by when sparring that you didn't have to go so wide here and so linear here and such. Too many people can only see what's on the surface of things and don't see the value of these forms. It is up to the individual Martial Artist to intrepret these Katas and practice these forms until it becomes second nature. Then with sparring and training they will begin to see the value of these Katas. I blame alot on teachers for not explaining what these forms represent. It would make it alot easier for students to see the value of the forms and how they relate to real fighting if the teacher would relate it to real fighting. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
GrrrArg Posted June 27, 2003 Posted June 27, 2003 Quote Treebranch: "You are absolutely right." Its hard to be right all the time I've been fortunate to have some very talented instructors in my time (a share of bad ones as well unfortunately), as such I've grown to recognise the good instructors very quickly and one characteristic they all seem to have is a healthy respect for kata. Says it all really.
Buddhas Belly Posted May 28, 2004 Posted May 28, 2004 This thread has shown up in several of the forums ... and now it's time to add my 3 cents. The reason so many "modern" practioners think that kata is useless is that kata isn't the QUICK way to fighting skills. If one were to view the history of asian martial arts, one would find that even the ancient fighting arts of 1,000 years ago even had kata (for things like swords, spear, etc.) so one could polish his technique. The difference now is that MAs don't start practicing at the age of 7 or 8 and practice 4 to 7 hours a day. Pick 1 kata and do it 1,000 times a day for 2 years ... then decide whether or not kata is "useless".
Ironberg Posted May 28, 2004 Posted May 28, 2004 Good point. "An enlightened man would offer a weary traveler a bed for the night, and invite him to share a civilized conversation over a bowl of... Cocoa Puffs."
Reklats Posted May 28, 2004 Posted May 28, 2004 This thread has shown up in several of the forums ... and now it's time to add my 3 cents. The reason so many "modern" practioners think that kata is useless is that kata isn't the QUICK way to fighting skills. If one were to view the history of asian martial arts, one would find that even the ancient fighting arts of 1,000 years ago even had kata (for things like swords, spear, etc.) so one could polish his technique. The difference now is that MAs don't start practicing at the age of 7 or 8 and practice 4 to 7 hours a day. Pick 1 kata and do it 1,000 times a day for 2 years ... then decide whether or not kata is "useless". So... it's not useless, it's just inefficient. Gotcha.
Drunken Monkey Posted May 28, 2004 Posted May 28, 2004 when you spar, how many moves do you really use? if all you do is live sparring you will use the same moves over and over again. granted you will become very proficient with those few moves and you will be a very capable fighter but then what's happened to the rest of the art? when you do a kata/form/whatever you want to call it, you are going through many moves each with many permutations. in the long term, if you and i were going to set ourselves a target to learn and use effectively let's just say 100 techniques. one will learn the techniques one at a time and learn how to use etc etc. the other will learn how to do all of the techniques then get them to work. net result is the same. it isn't inefficient, it's just for a different purpose. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
shotokanwarrior Posted May 29, 2004 Posted May 29, 2004 Be afarid of the man who does one technique 10,000 times, not the man who does 10,000 techniques once. Where Art ends, nature begins.
Ironberg Posted May 29, 2004 Posted May 29, 2004 I fear neither. One guy is predictable, the other just plain stupid. "An enlightened man would offer a weary traveler a bed for the night, and invite him to share a civilized conversation over a bowl of... Cocoa Puffs."
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