TracyLou Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Hello! Im new to this forum and Im looking for some advice... Basically a few weeks ago a man knocked on my door saying he was from the local karate club, I told him I wasnt interested at the moment and he asked about my son who is 4 years old....He said they normally start at 5 but he'd accept him at his current age of 4. Fine I thought...He then charged me £80 for a join up fee without allowing me to see his classes first and then informed me that the classes were £5 a lesson. Dont get me wrong, Im not *that* bothered about the expense but since he joined I have found some disturbing stuff on the internet about GKR and wondered what you guys thought... Is it true that it isnt REAL karate? Is it true that the instructors are not black belts? Is it true that GKR is not accepted by the Karate body or whatever they are called? Is it true that GKR students cannot take part in tournaments? Is it true that GKR have a history of not having proper insurance cover? The two classes my son has attended tend to be fairly 'messy', most of the students (highest rank is an orange belt) seem to obviously do the moves wrong yet the instructor does not help them and he spends most of his time talking and making jokes. I used to do karate (wado ryu) myself a few years ago and the standard of my old class seems to be so much higher than these £5 a lesson classes that my son is attending. I am not saying that GKR is bad or anything, id just like some advice. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karate_woman Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I don't know anything about GKR myself, but there was a thread on here a while back that offered some points both for and against it. It wasn't the best example of open-mindedness I've seen in the forum, but here's the link: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1367&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Since I don't have any experience with GKD,the only thing in your post I can really refer to is the part where you are concerned about what is going on in the classes. If what you're seeing doesn't impress you, then you might want to either talk to the instructors, find another school, or both. Since you took Wado Ryu for a while, I'd think that you're in a much better position to judge quality than many parents, but even if you didn't have any experience it is usually best to trust your instincts. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. -Lao-Tse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekyMusician Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Personally the minute I was asked for an £80 sign-up fee without seeing a class I would have started to doubt this guy. My karate club only charges £2.50 a lesson, and club membership is low too (if I remember right its about £7 per year). We do have to pay for insurance cover (I think its about £25/£30, but I can't remember for sure), but we certainly don't have to pay for our insurance cover or club membership until we've been attending the club for quite a few months and are sure we want to continue with it. This guy sounds like a bit of a cowboy, and if the classes look messy and students who are having difficulty are being ignored, then I think you should take your son out of there before he gets hurt, regardless of what style the club trains in. Smile. It makes people wonder what you've been up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theswarm Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I do Go-Kan-Ryu in Australia and have been doing it for a bit over a year from what I've heard on these boards the standard in the UK of Go-Kan-Ryu doesn't sound too great, this might be because G-K-R has only existed in the UK for 2 years, I'm not sure (or making excuses). In answer to your questions Is it true that it isnt REAL karate? The founder of Go-Kan-Ryu created it based on Gojukai and budokan - he had been doing both for 38 years (i don't think necessarily at the same time) and had only an interest in karate and no other martial arts. From what i've seen of those similar arts it's more like Go Ju than budo or shotokan. So that will depend on what your definition of real karate, if real karate is one of the original styles then no. If being a real karateka is more to do with personal character building, attitude, self discipline, and etiquette, and proper kihon then yes. But that being said I can't speak for the schools where you live. Is it true that the instructors are not black belts? Both. If you see an instructor that has a black belt with a white stripe through the middle this is a junior instructor - these instructors exist because in the school 1 in every 500 students is a black belt (i think that's the figure) and it makes it a little diffcult to get every single of that 1 in every 500 to instruct. The instructors you see with a black belt are black belts, and the ones you see with black belts with japanese writing on them are shodans and above. (and the ones whose belts have faded heaps are usually fairly high) Is it true that GKR is not accepted by the Karate body or whatever they are called? This one I have no idea about, sorry. Is it true that GKR students cannot take part in tournaments? nope, in Australia we have the blitz magazine national all styles tournaments - which is many styles muay thai, jiu jutsu, taekwondo, kung fu, kickboxing, karate, etc etc. (there's actually one coming up this weekend) which the state teams compete in here and do pretty well. http://www.nationalallstyles.com.au I believe is the address. We have a few champions in that. There's also the world all styles championships but i'm not sure of any website for this - one of my instructors was a world all styles champion for continuous(jiyu) kumite. We also conduct our own tournaments - Within the Region, Within the state, and on a national level. Is it true that GKR have a history of not having proper insurance cover? I don't know about this one, i haven't heard any stories - but i know they have proper liability insurance where I live, the best bet is since you've already paid for your membership you should contact your regional instructor (not the sensei at the place where your kid trains) and ask them these questions. Personally what i'd be worried the most about is the fact that they let your child of 4 years old enroll, when it's pretty clear here that the minimum is 5 years of age. I'm also wondering about the enroling cost being 80 pounds, that'd be what 150 australian dollars? I paid 48 dollars for mine, i dont know what's going on there - mine was a white card and not lifetime, but it got upgraded to lifetime (lifetime i think costs 80 dollars here) because I got my yellow belt in the first month. The two classes my son has attended tend to be fairly 'messy', most of the students (highest rank is an orange belt) seem to obviously do the moves wrong yet the instructor does not help them and he spends most of his time talking and making jokes. ok my question is was the class an early class? What happens in a dojo I assist at is we have a one hour class earlier in the day mainly for the kids and for those who are serious to warm up, those classes tend to be a little messier, then we have a class usually 15 minutes after that that's far more serious that goes for 1 and a half hours. These aren't true of all our dojos though - there are some that simply do the 1 and half hour serious class and that's it, the 1 hour classes seem to be at the newer dojos where there's lots of lower belt kids who have short attention spans. My advice to you is to try this: you should have been given a piece of paper that says a few dojo locations near you right? Well hopefully you were - pick another dojo - it might be better, if it's no better find another style or school. That's what I'd have done if I wasn't happy with it. Good luck and i hope my advice helps you and your son out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyLou Posted May 23, 2003 Author Share Posted May 23, 2003 Thanks for everyones advice I suppose the class has its good and bad points to be fair, the instructor is really good with children for example, Ive never seen him get angry or bad tempered with anyone no matter how many times he has to repeat himself. This was not the case with my last instructor but I guess he just took his classes much more seriously (which is fair enough). My son loves his classes also and is looking foward to getting a uniform which incidently we have never been pressured into buying. I do think the price is too much though, at my last club we paid £2.50 a lesson and the membership fee was around £15 and that covered the insurance and everything else. The instructor has a black belt with a white stripe (as does his assistant) so I guess this is an instructors belt and not a black belt...I dont mind providing he teaches well. theswarm, you are right, this class was an early class and was followed on by another class, I didnt stay to see what went on in the second class however but the early class was one and a half hours and the second class was 2 hours long. I do like the idea of the certificates etc that the club hands out to kids, all kids love to be told that they have achieved something and aparantly my son is due his first certificate in two weeks time (achievement award or something!). I think Ill leave him at the class for as long as he enjoys it, when he's old enough to understand he can choose for himself whether he wants to change styles or stay where he is. Thanks again Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theswarm Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 that sounds alright I agree with you the club has it's negative and positive points and I don't say that in a way to bash my own club or put my own club on a pedestool - just certain things i've noticed in my time here. I tend to get told when I assist not to be so strict, i tend to change my instructing style depending on the environment - sometimes I feel discipline is needed and if students pick up a habit of poor discipline then fixing that lack of discipline is going to be really really hard later on, and i've seen many examples of this. But most of the time I try and use positivity to instill discipline into students I help out, just trying to show the positive benefits of self discipline rather than being hard on them for not being well disciplined, self discipline was something I discovered myself - not from being taught, punished, or anything. But yeah anyway enough of my tangeant, I hope your child has fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbitbob Posted May 25, 2003 Share Posted May 25, 2003 My first concern was the instructor going door to door..... There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theswarm Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 they're not instructors (well not usually) they're seperate while I don't particularly agree with the marketting techniques of my style - it worked on me. If I had've got off my ass I'd have been doing Wing Chun a year earlier though. So they kinda helped me get off my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyph Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Hi TracyLou, I've had a brief experience with GKR - I didn't stay long because it was definitely a McDojo IMO and I wanted to resume more realistic training. Anyway, the people that come knocking on your door have a script they've memorised. They usually ask how old your child is and if they're around 5, they'll say they usually accept them at one year later than what they currently are, but can start them at the current age. The black belt with white stripe only means they're an instructor (or sempai I think is the term used?). If they're a black belt, they'll be wearing their black belt. One of GKR's aims is to increase the self-esteem and confidence within the children. However, if you want your son to be able to defend himself, I'd strongly reccommend you take him elsewhere, to a proper dojo. His current training will also give him bad habits that will be hard to break later on if he's to start another style. Have I changed your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrrrArg Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Go back to the link at the top of the page I just posted there again. I d agree that 4 is a bit to young no matter what the style. I personally wouls say 8, but thats personell opinion, hope the kid has fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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