Blackbelt at 16?

[White Warlock]

Being technically competent does not make you mentally, or even physically, competent.

 

A 12 year old black belt would bounce off my knee. Worse, he would probably act like a kid while doing it. Why? Because he 'is' a kid.

 

There's nothing wrong with kids being kids, but it falls under the category of deception to give a kid a black belt. Regardless of how well they've memorized the techniques, or how well they can apply them, having the right mindset and having the physical ability to utilize those skills... these are important. A 12 year old kid wouldn't be able to do anything more than womp another 12 year old kid. And what's to prevent him from doing so? A 12 year old is far away from being developed, either physically or mentally.

 

It is just as inappropriate to give a kid a black belt for learning tkd, or any other martial art, as it is to give a black belt to a gymnast. Both really know their techniques, but the mindset? No... they're still kids. Let them be kids and don't deceive them into thinking they're ready for prime time. In the end, you only hurt them. I've seen far too many young BBers lose all faith in the arts, because when it came down to actually being applied in a real-life confrontation... they were a mere hockey puck.

 

Honesty is far more important to a child's growth. Medals, plaques, and belts... meaningless, if it's just a sham. Problem is, in almost every case with providing a black belt to a minor... it's a sham.

[italian_guy]

I think that black belt at 16 (as the original thead stated) is not too bad. Usually at 16 a male boy is no longer a kid (female mature even earlier) so I do not see big problems even if 18 as a lower limit it is safer. If we are talking about kids at 14, 13 or even younger, I'm against it. Even if a black belt is just an expert beginner it is viewed as a senior inside the dojo so he/she must have the required maturity for the role and if he/she has not this maturity, older member (with lower ranks) in the dojo may be bothered. And this may bring bad reputation to the dojo itself. Not to mention what white warlock just stated... they may have the right body mechanics in their moves but since they are not mature they do not have the required strenght and mental capacity that they should have in any actual combat situation with a person with older age.

[mandy003]

I got my black belt at the age of 15, in April 2002. I trained 5 nights aweek solidly for 6 months, i ended up in hospital because i over did it, but as soon as i was out i was back training again. I then had to re-take my Shodan grading in the December of 2002 as i was then 16. I spent my 16th birthday at karate (some people call it sad, but i was doing what i love). Some people may argue that there should be no balck belts under 16, but being oe of those who was a under 16 black belt, i beg to differ.

 

I graded with two men, we had to go up individually though, and i was given the same things to do as they were given, i earne my balck belt the same as they did, i had to fight men who had a significant size advantage over me, but i gave it my all. A student should be able to grade for black belt irrespective of age, if they have the ability then why not, but as long as they also have the discipline that a black belt should attain. I have one student a 1st Kyu and he has so much spirit and is so eager to learn new things, and the effort he puts inb for a 10 year old is amazing. He si quiet studious and very hard working, so why should he be denied the chance to grade because he is 10? that means hes got to spend the next 6 years on 1st Kyu, to me thats a little bit ageist. In my association you have to re-take your Shodan grading as soon as you hit 16. But until 16 you cant progress any further with the Dan grades.

[Kyle-san]

Am I the only one who thinks the term ageist is just stupid? Yes, I get the point that it's supposed to be describing discrimination based on age, but it just seems petty.

 

As for the topic, I agree that children generally aren't ready for a black belt, but it's a mistake to assume that every kid has a short attention span and is unable to communicate properly. But, as far as I'm concerned, if someone is able to earn their rank and not pay for it, then they deserve it.

[mandy003]

there has to be a term to describe the discrimination agains tpeople because of their age, as stupid as it may sound it has been called ageism, same as sexism, is that petty too?

 

The point of it was is that people should not discriminate or be discrimintated against because of age.

[Drunken Monkey]

but no one is discounting the hard work that any ten year old might put in.

 

the point is, there is a certain standard and image to uphold when you have a belt rank, not of apparent fighting ability per se but of uniform standards (all blues should be equal, all blacks should be equal etc etc, with size, weight, not being an issue that matters)

 

the ten year old kid.

 

let's say he attains his shodan.

 

then a bigger, stronger blue belt comes and brute forces his way and beats the ten year old.....

 

see the problem with young black belts?

 

the black belt should have been able to take care of the blue.

 

especially when there is a question of skill being part of it.

 

he might have been technically able but he wasn't physically able to win.

 

it isn't an age issue.

 

it just happens to be that age affects the issue at hand.

 

a young person is just not as developed as an older person.

 

like warlock said.

 

the kid will bounce of his knee (and probably then slump to the ground...)

 

i don't see this as discrimination.

 

it is more like protection for the kid, the school and the sanctity (probably the wrong word...) of the belt system.

 

it has been discussed before that there are many problems with the belt system and this is one of the issues that need to be addressed.

[Luckykboxer]

the problem here is that the majority of people are not mentally, physically, or emotionally ready for a black belt until they have grown up....

 

so to speak.

 

I dont think that a black belt is given solely on regurgitating curriculum. I think that Black Belts are awarded on the entire package, how someone acts emotionally, mentally, how their body control is, etc. The curriculum is only there as a guide to teach basics and how to move.

 

I have a 12 year old in our school that has been training since he was 5 years old.

 

He learns well, he can do moves in the air and they look great.

 

hes about 4 foot 6 and about 85-90 pounds. He is not physically dangerous, he can barely do manuevers on the body because of size differences. He is a 1st Brown waiting to test for Black Belt.

 

His parents are pushing for him to be able to test because they believe since he knows the curriculum that he should test.

 

Emotionally hes a child, mentally hes a child, physically hes a child.

 

He has the curriculum down in the air, but at what point is that enough?

 

The problem with young kids getting blackbelts when they probably shouldnt is only a fairly recent problem, I think within the last 20-30 years tops.

 

I believe it has started because kids are joining karate younger then ever before, Psychologists are telling parents to put their children into karate to help deal with ADDS and any other learning disability, or disorder.

 

So you have children starting karate at age 5, and spending 8-10 years learning curriculum and moving forward, and then wanting ot get their black belt.

 

It isnt the childs fault he started so long.

 

It isnt the childs fault that he has spent 8-10 years learning a curriculum that takes an average adult with no hinderances 6 years to reach a black belt level.(obviously this is from those that make it that far, not all adults who enter martial arts)

 

Now the instructors have a tough call.

 

Do they tell the parents the kid isnt ready and have him repeatedly go over the same curriculum for years as their body and mind catch up?

 

Do they tell the parents no they wont test them and risk losing that student to another karate studio that will test them, or at least train them and then as the kid is ready for their black belt there they are now of age and have grown in body and mind?

 

Do they just test the student and let him get by on curriculum only?

 

Its a tough call

 

Every option is a lose - lose situation.

 

Either someone is promoted before hes ready and there is a watering down of the advanced levels.

 

OR someone isnt promoted and they are negative and frustrated, they possibly leave the martial arts, or talk bad about it, or they talk bad about the instructor and school to all their friends and create bad blood.

 

There are always exceptions... There will be 15 year old kids who are physically mature, mentally mature, and have it all... but they will definitely be few and far between.

 

I dont know what the answers are to this, and I am positive that it will only get worse.

 

More and more kids are taking martial arts at younger and younger ages.

 

And with how litigious people are now days, it is only a matter of time that someone tries to sue because little johnny or little susan were not allwoed to test for one reason or another.

 

I hate having such a glass is half empty type of attitude towards it.

 

I dont think there is any easy solution.

 

people now days want things quick, it seems more and more people are getting the attitude that things are owed to them.

 

I would like to think that if an instructor told someone who had all the curriculum down that they were not physically or mentally ready to test yet that the student would understand and strive that much harder...

 

But unfortunately i dont see that happening.

 

Let me say that i find children able to focus on the curriculum very admirable, but i am also a big opponent to advancing someone due to their knowledge of curriculum

[Luckykboxer]

The point of it was is that people should not discriminate or be discrimintated against because of age.

 

if this is how you feel about it then you probably agree that at age 32 i should be able to take out my social security benefits now.

 

or that i should have the same admission price as children or senior citizens.

 

or that a 9 year old should be able to drive a car, or drink, or smoke, or vote.

 

or that a 32 year old that never went to high school should be able to attend your local highschool and participate in high school sports.

 

or that any other reasons that age has been placed on certain items or activities are unjust because its based on age?

 

I am not trying to make fun of you, I just think that people should not be entitled to everything at any age.

 

I know i dont want to see britney spears made president of the united states because 22 million 10-15 year olds are able to vote.

 

Its a tough position on either side. And there are definitely things that can be said about both sides.

 

I do feel that true signs of black belts, are the aiblity to think, act, react, and in general be dangerous if the situation calls for it. Or have the ability to meet situations with the amount of force the situation calls for.

[Drunken Monkey]

wow....

 

it's not often that i feel like saying something like this but...

 

bravo.

 

well said.

[mandy003]

then a bigger, stronger blue belt comes and brute forces his way and beats the ten year old.....

 

see the problem with young black belts?

 

the black belt should have been able to take care of the blue.

 

especially when there is a question of skill being part of it.

 

he might have been technically able but he wasn't physically able to win.

 

Grade doesnt determine whether you win or not, just because you are a black belt does not mean that you have to be able to beat someone. I mean im a black belt and im 4 foot 8inches and 7 stone, so does that mean i shouldnt be a black belt because of my physical build? Of course theres always going to be someone better than you, someone bigger and stronger than you, the same as there will always be someone of a lower grade to be able to beat you. A black belt isn't just about the fighting, i dont fight anymore and i have been a black belt for two years i only fought for my black belt because it was a neccessity. So because of my build i may not have the physical ability to win, so that means i shouldnt be a black belt? Karate is more than fighting, personally i prefer kata maybes because im only small i dunno.

 

People have their own views and judgements on things and to be honest i don't think that physical ability should be one you base your judgement on.

 

 

or that i should have the same admission price as children or senior citizens.

 

or that a 9 year old should be able to drive a car, or drink, or smoke, or vote.

 

This is just being ridiculous, but yeah i do think that people should pay the same prices for things irrespective of age, but unfortuantely it doesnt happen. So surely you should know what it is like to be discriminated against because of your age???? You get charged more because the trend is people in their late 20s 30s are generally thought to be more affluent and children and senior citizens are less able or unable to work therefore less affluent, so surely you could relate to that more than abled 10 year old who would make a quality black belt?? Both of you are being discriminated against because of age and what people steroetype you as. I'm sure you are well in deserving of your grade, i don't doubt that, but so is that 10 year old he has amazing talent and can go far but if he is held back for another six years then that isn't fair. I know some kids shouldnt be able to go for black belts because they arent mature enough or what not, but there are some out there that are good enough, so i dont think that they should be denied that opportunity. Gaining a black belt is a great gift that has to be worked hard for, if the person is willing and able i do not think that they shouldn't be able to.