WhiteBelt Posted February 2, 2003 Posted February 2, 2003 I have been training in a heavily modified version of Shotokan. We do more and more ground fighting, and weapons as we progress up the ranks. During my recent yellow belt grading I noticed that I am going to need to suppliment my training with some work in the gym. What I am unsure of is all the misinformation on the web, and in books on this subject. I read a few books on weight training for sports, and one specifically for the martial arts. They suggested that my prorgam include a wide range of exercises including both free weights and on the machines. But I have also read that in some places that for the martial arts we should stick to exercises that most resemble what we do, and stay away from the machines. Pretty much everybody suggests that you work the larger muscles first, and then progress to smaller and smaller muscles, but finish with the abdomen and lower back. What exactly is the proper order? I have also read that because we need a lot of power in the abdomen and hips, a beginner should focus more on crunches, sit-ups, and lower back work than on building up arm and leg strength. Is this true? I have more questions but work calls... Thanks in advance.
Tombstone Posted February 3, 2003 Posted February 3, 2003 i weight lift for size and strength. i fight NHB so i dont know how helpful i can be with this subject. my advice is to go to Gold's Gym (or one like it). they have a program called APEX that will help you alot. each program is custom made for the person and their interests. tell them your reasons and goals and you'll have your own program to go by. if my memory is correct you'll even have a personal trainer for the duration of the program. its been awhile since i've been to a Gold's Gym so give them a call incase something changed.
KickChick Posted February 3, 2003 Posted February 3, 2003 Pretty much everybody suggests that you work the larger muscles first, and then progress to smaller and smaller muscles, but finish with the abdomen and lower back. What exactly is the proper order?True, the largest muscle groups should be worked first. If the smaller ones are worked first they drain the energy that is needed to move the large muscle groups. When the smaller muscles are exhausted it is more difficult to maintain proper form. But I have also read that in some places that for the martial arts we should stick to exercises that most resemble what we do, and stay away from the machines. Using free weights rather than macjhines are best for building overall power. They not only do they work the main muscle groups, but also the stabilizer muscles that assist the major areas providing greater overall body control and coordination. Also it is easier to design a workout with free weights that will benefit the specific movements found in martial arts training. I have also read that because we need a lot of power in the abdomen and hips, a beginner should focus more on crunches, sit-ups, and lower back work than on building up arm and leg strength. Is this true? Your martial art techniques (when done correctly) gain their power by using body mechanics that involves transferring this power through the hips. The abdominal muscles are a major player in this power transfer. As a beginner I would also concentrate on hip training along with your ab work. I constantly hear instructors say that beginners need to "put more hips" into their techniques. This hip area is made up of various muscle groups including the abs, the obliques, the glutes, etc.... I'm sure if you search through this forum you will find various ab and hip exercises. Remember too that arm & leg strength is also important. You can incoroporate dumbbell exercises and heavy bag training to develop strength which will in turn develop that power in your technique.
WhiteBelt Posted February 3, 2003 Author Posted February 3, 2003 Thanks, both of you, for the info. I doubt I can afford a personal trainer though.
Zlatan Posted February 4, 2003 Posted February 4, 2003 Get the book, The Art Of Expressing The Human Body, by Bruce lee. This has all the info about weight training and martial arts. Plus it has some good insight into the way bruce lee trained himself, well worth buying.
KickChick Posted February 4, 2003 Posted February 4, 2003 Check out discussion here also: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4948
WhiteBelt Posted February 9, 2003 Author Posted February 9, 2003 I don't know if this has been asked before, so sorry in advance. I have recently been looking into the whole bodyweight only workouts. One of the biggest advantages that I can see in using such a workout is the great endurance you gain. Proponents of weight lifting suggest that to get the same endurance you only need to run, cycle, and swim. Is that true or do you need to work specific muscles to increase their endurance? How does one accomplish this with weight lifting? I'm assuming it will be something along the lines of a lower intesity with a lot more sets & reps.
BonnyBoy Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Forget body building routines unless you intend to take steroids. They're designed by people on steroids for people taking steroids. Stick with the basic compound movemnts, bench press, squat, deadlifts, military press. This works your major muscles, and your minor muscles are worked as stabilisers. Legs are the biggest muscles you have, so what's gonna use more energy and allow you the biggest gains? Biceps curls or heavy squats? Isolation exercises are a waste of time Check out Beyond Brawn at hardgainer.com , still waiting on my order to go through. There are always two choices, two paths. One choice is easy and its only reward is it's easy.It takes sacrifice to be the best.
Maestro Posted February 11, 2003 Posted February 11, 2003 Well, I've weight trained my whole life so... Yes whitebelt, there are exercises to increase muscle edurance, but there are two types of endurance, and it depends on which you want to build: -There is aerobic endurance, which would best be achieved (in my opinion)by middle and long distance running. Aerobic activities can obviously be carried out for long peroids of time, but the disadvantage is that the aerobic (slow-twitch) muscles of you body are less powerful than the fast-twitch, or anaerobic muscles. -Anaerobic endurance (I suspect this is what your looking for) can be achieved many ways. If you have done next to no weight training before, just about any weight training will create some good gains here at first. After a while though, I would recomend an exercise type called burn-outs. They are basicly just what you asked-less weight with higher reps. Your target repitions would be around 50-60, where on the last ones you are really straining. I would not recommend any more than 5 sets of these, tops, you sound like you're new to lifting, so actually, I'm gonna say four, tops. These exercises are great for building power endurance, i.e, succesive very, very hard hits to a heavy bag, something you cannot get just by running. Caution though! These types of exercises are hard on the muscles! They build up a lot of lactic acid, and can leave your body quite exhausted, so I would not recommend starting them until you have established some good ligament and tendon strength, and until that initial week of soreness after starting a weight routine has passed. After that though, they're awesome. Bonnyboy makes excellent points too() Obviously your not going to spend all you time in the gym, so maximize you time and do the big-group exercises. I would suggest squats, deadlifts, Bench(at all inclines), rows, military press, and power-curls. Probably in that order too. No motion in martial arts isolates a muscle group, so why should you? Chances are, you hit your abs pretty good in shotokan, so probably you don't need to focus on those a whole lot, but well, you know if you do or not. If you don't, better do lots of abs and obliques too. Another word of caution though: Just about any weightlifting exercise requires you back for support(especially military press, deadlifts, and power curls). A lot of times martial arts will focus on the abs and obliques, but not the back! This would be a horrible oversight when it comes to weightlifting. I would suggest that for the first few workouts you go with light weights, but make sure to hit your lower back pretty good. If you start up on the heavier weights before you have the proper back strength, you are just asking for trouble. Maybe the best advice I can give you is this: don't push too hard! We martial artists push our bodies to the limits all the time, but the weightroom is one place that this can really come back and bite you! I have seen it happen all to often. Just use your head man. Good luck to you! Might as well take my advice--I don't use it anymore.
WhiteBelt Posted February 15, 2003 Author Posted February 15, 2003 Yep, another quick question. I have a problem with my left knee which causes me to over use my right leg from time to time. One doctor suggested that the problem is caused by cartilage that may, or may not, be worn down. Another doctor, which was a sports physician, suggested that my knee cap is not alligning properly when I flex my leg. He said that it is probably due to a muscle imbalance, and tight quads and hip flexors. One exercise he wanted me to do was to stand against a door with my feet about 8 inches from it and pointing straight forward. Then to sit down a little, and flex the inner thighs. However I haven't noticed much improvement from that exercise. What kinds of light exercises can I do to improve the muscle imbalance in my legs? Squats and lunges sometimes irritate my knee... I can do them but my knee complains later. I might have to build up to them.
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