Hikite (Pulling Hand) Usage

[Wastelander]

Haisai, everyone!

Hikite (pulling hand) is always a controversial topic within the karate community, it seems, but I was curious to see how people are actually utilizing it in their training. I've created a poll to collect that information, and if I've missed anything, feel free to add to the conversation!

[Furinkazan]

Would you consider this to be a hikite?  If so, then power generation appears to be the correct answer.

Wilder isn't grabbing or pulling anything.

I'd also argue that, depending on where the hikite is, its use a "chamber" might be ineffective more often than not.  The longer the distance your strike travels, the better your opponent's ability to keep an eye on it and block it.

I'd also argue that it would be ineffective as an elbow strike because you're not looking in that direction.

If we consider this a hikite, then the purpose it serves is to assist with using the hips to create a more powerful punch.

 

Edited November 5 by Furinkazan

[bushido_man96]

Great conversation.  In my typical experience with it in TKD, it was strictly structural and for "power development," because "every action has an equal/opposite reaction," which I've come to see that is basically a bunch of malarky.

However, the current TKD organization I'm in has an example for its use in a one-step, where the hand secures the wrist of the partner and pulls back as we execute a knife hand strike with the other hand.  This is the only application of such that actually shows up anywhere in our TKD curriculum, sadly.

That said, from doing my own studies and research, I've come to see it as a pulling mechanism for technique applications, and I train it as such and explain it as such to our students when I'm teaching.  If we get the chance to applications work, I make sure to show the application.

I am seeing a lot of applications of the pulling hand in my Aikido techniques.

[sensei8]

As Noah points out, this subject is controversial because not all MA is equal in its methodology and/or ideology.

For us in Shindokan, the Hikite aids the hip across the board. No hip, no nothing; no effectiveness whatsoever. Close range techniques depend on the hips. 

[Furinkazan]

I’m beginning to rethink this.

We’re questioning this from the perspective of practicing kihon or standing in formation alternating left and right punches while the instructor counts in Japanese.

Kihon and kumite weren’t always a thing in karate.  They were introduced in Japan by students of Funakoshi who were also training in kendo.  Prior to this, karate training was kata and hojo undo.  In fact, the techniques within the kata didn’t even have names until the Japanese named them.  Prior to that in Okinawa, you were simply told to “move your hands like this.”

Funakoshi told his students who trained in kendo that there was no kumite or kihon in karate.  Some of them didn’t believe him, so they went to Okinawa to see for themselves.  He was right.  So they took it upon themselves to introduce it to karate.

While remembering this information about an hour ago, I stood up and did Tekki Shodan and Kanku Dai (I intentionally skipped the Heians as, for all I know, Itosu may have had specific bunkai in mind when creating them that may have been contrary to Kanku Dai and Jion), and the first two answers appear to be the most correct.

What I’m saying is that the bunkai of a particliar technique is best analyzed in the context of kata, and not kihon or anything else.

[Zaine]

1 hour ago, Furinkazan said:

Funakoshi told his students who trained in kendo that there was no kumite or kihon in karate.  Some of them didn’t believe him, so they went to Okinawa to see for themselves.  He was right.  So they took it upon themselves to introduce it to karate.

I can't find a source for this. Where did you hear this story?

[Furinkazan]

1 hour ago, Zaine said:

I can't find a source for this. Where did you hear this story?

There were three books that I read by Kousaku Yokota, one of which discussed this.  Shotokan Myths, Shotokan Mysteries, and Shotokan Transcendence.  I can’t remember which one, but it’s one of these.

[bushido_man96]

48 minutes ago, Furinkazan said:

There were three books that I read by Kousaku Yokota, one of which discussed this.  Shotokan Myths, Shotokan Mysteries, and Shotokan Transcendence.  I can’t remember which one, but it’s one of these.

Those sound worth looking into.