I don't like this Sensei

[Revario]

Hello to All, I have a bizzare question/ dilemma. I wish to learn certain specific aspect of a style of Karate in my area. To cut it short, me and the Sensei (instructor as we are clearly not walking the same path, in many aspects of life) do not have the same understanding or vision of what Karate is and how it is to be treated and practiced. 

Him being on the theorical side of things and very much into hierarchy.

I am into practicality and informalities; not because my "rank" is higher then someone that this person does not have valuable information, experience or tips to bring. I welcome comments questions critics (based in logic and practicality not aestethisicm) from anyone.

He is the reverse of that, if you are not of his rank or higher your word is doesn't mean anything and it is preferable to not speak at all. 

 

My question or dilemma is this, I want to learn and he may be one of the only one who specialise in this style, that I can have access (I still pay them as well).

 

Should I attend classes in silence, not involve myself with students anymore then necessairy and let it be? 

Wait until I have a teacher that understands things the way I do (there is one, we just have scheduling conflict)?

 

Go to a different school where I will most likely face the same challenges as most do not practice Karate for its practicality so they learn and teach in a "How" mindset when I focus on the "Why". I dont mind it as much as long as Sensei can understand my path is not the one they may follow and are able to still teach me. I feel this person wants clones and copies of himself, not Karateka. 

 

Without lies, might be an ego thing on both sides I am uncertain. I want to learn, he wants to dominate is the feeling I get. 

 

Any ideas or options? 

[sensei8]

That’s sure does sound like an unfavorable situation. Sorry you have to endure that, and nobody should. I don’t envy the situation you are in.

There are those who bend to the will of others. As though the statement of, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”, applies to MA training…and imho, that statement does NOT apply to MA training.

Short of it all, if you’re not happy, go somewhere else. Learning will be affected drastically by staying where you’re not happy.

Here’s the bad news. That sensei doesn’t have to get on the same page with you across the board. As the student, you have to get on the page with that sensei across the board. You came to him, he didn’t come to you. As crazy as this sounds, it is what it is in a lot of MA schools.

That school is a business, you’re the customer. If you’re not satisfied with the service that that school is providing, voice your concerns to that sensei, but no not whine. That still might be a waste of time, from what you’ve described about that sensei.

No sensei is THAT good where you have to be unhappy in your training and put up with a one-sided relationship.

Rank gets in the way of everything, especially for those who put rank above all things. Those who think that they’re all that and a bag of chips are a lost cause. The reality for those that put rank above all things lack a lot of important things, like self-esteem, to begin with. They lack a billion tons of humbleness across the board!! Being humble escapes them in the Nth degree.

Just because someone’s a human being doesn’t mean that they know how to be a human being!! 

4 hours ago, Revario said:

Should I attend classes in silence, not involve myself with students anymore then necessairy and let it be?

That’ll not solve anything!! Learning will still be greatly affected; not a good way to learn.

4 hours ago, Revario said:

Wait until I have a teacher that understands things the way I do (there is one, we just have scheduling conflict

Remember, you’re the student, but I hear what you’re saying. If this is where you want to be, then try your best to work it out.

Grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Every MA school is going to have pros and cons, there’s no avoiding them. How you deal with these issues tells a lot about one’s character.

Does the sensei in question lack integrity?!? If so, dump him fast!! If his integrity is solid and intact, then decide whether you should stay or leave his school.

I’ll compromise with a student, but that has its limits. If the student is worth my effort, that student tries and is respectful, then I’ll compromise, but only to a point!! If the student isn’t worth my time, doesn’t put forth any effort and is disrespectful, I’ll kick that student to the curb in a flash. I’d NEVER EVER compromise my integrity for anyone…that’ll never ever happen!!

Imho!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

Thats a frustrating situation that you are in! 

8 hours ago, Revario said:

He is the reverse of that, if you are not of his rank or higher your word is doesn't mean anything and it is preferable to not speak at all. 

I find that annoying in a lot of instructors, BUT I do find that a lot of instructors also forget that there are people who have knowledge and skills that exceed their actual rank and chose not to grade because of various reasons. 

For example one of my instructors, has been a Godan for a long time and is content at that grade. If you looked at his training history, and if he graded like a "normal" student he very much would have been an 8th or 9th Dan by now. But his knowledge and skills is at that level. 

People have said the same thing to me, I may be a classed as a 2nd Dan - but have been eligible to grade to 3rd since 2018/2019. So by Time in Grade if I did grade (and pass) when i was supposed to grade, I would have technically been a 4th Dan by now. 

8 hours ago, Revario said:

To cut it short, me and the Sensei (instructor as we are clearly not walking the same path, in many aspects of life) do not have the same understanding or vision of what Karate is and how it is to be treated and practiced. 

I believe that everyone after a while develops their own vision of what Karate is, and how it is treated and practiced. 

For me I am at the Tai Chi stage of my Karate Training, where the fast flashy stuff isn't appealing. 

It has changed so much over the years for me, even when I was teaching. 

8 hours ago, Revario said:

Wait until I have a teacher that understands things the way I do (there is one, we just have scheduling conflict)?

You can always wait for that teacher, BUT it could be a long time before that happens. 

OR you can train with someone that has opposite views to you, and how they understand things can be different to yours also. This is where we are able question what we learn and develop our minds even further. 

Yes the instructor needs to have an open mind to questions and be ready to answer them, but also be able to push you to question what you have learnt and to understand how things are taught and why. 

8 hours ago, Revario said:

Go to a different school where I will most likely face the same challenges as most do not practice Karate for its practicality so they learn and teach in a "How" mindset when I focus on the "Why".

I totally understand that you focus on the WHY over the HOW! 

From experience, everyone is one or the ot                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          her and less often both. 

When I learn (anything not just Karate) - I learn the HOW do I do it and along with the biomechanical movements. But fortunately my instructors have incorporated both the WHY and HOW. We get show shown how to do it, but then why it is done in a particular way. 

For instance the Jodan Uke - I learnt the HOW we do it, after a while we learnt the why,                     j                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

[Revario]

Thank you very much for your answers. 

I am lucky enough to have my Sensei who is exactly as defined. We may not share ideas on various aspects BUT he sure explains why teaching is done that way or approached in a certain aspect. He is not shy to say when something is done for beginners to learn a concept that I already grasped or regurgitating techniques as he says. Its nothing that brings progress in the way I am looking for and he makes it clear when it is the case. Also doesnt fuss me too much about those as we both understand why.

We do have an understanding and I would like to believe he respects my ways and vision enough to know what I actually need and not focus on all aspects. 

 

Very intrigued by the Tai Chi phase of Karate. If I could define mine it is really into practical and self defense approach. Very close range which does not offer very flashy options either. I am quite curious what you mean by it. 

 

In regards to testing, I am weird enough that I formulated my own criteria and techniques to be tested on. I really am not in sync with what most schools curriculum or requirements are. By that I mean, again focusing on the why so being able to explain, demonstrate and to use it against an unwilling opponent are more important to me then having foot turn at 45 degree, not 44 not 46, 45... Same with non Kata drill movements, one should be able to develop their own based on what they learned...

 

In regards to the one I disagree with, that persons integrity is definitely there. He is not someone who doesnt know what they are doing. Very good teacher for kids and people with no experience. Quite rigid in his teaching but very on point. I cannot claim that the man is a bad person or teacher that would be untrue. We dont have matching understanding or personalities but that cannot take away his skills and method, the man is good in his understanding. 

I feel like I am the issue with my disagreements and questions. Mainly because majority of people do not train for self defense purposes so lot is lost on them. They train for health and being in shape, I train because I firmly believe Karate is the ultimate method of self defense when studied appropriately. I see it as a close range art that is right in between striking and grappling. The approach in general dojo session is more on sport karate (Bogu Kumite) which does not bridge the gap between Kata and Kumite, which is what I focus on specifically.

To put background and classes in perspective, I use public transport and walk to the dojo, most have a luxury vehicule to show up. I live in a different reality then they do. Self defense to me is real and can happen any travel or time. To them, its hard to run into a violent stranger when one only frequents people they want to. 

 

All in all, I will give an honest try to integrate and not ask hard/ harsh questions, take the knowledge and do what I need with it outside of class. As it was mentionned, learning has been affected by it in the past as it didnt make me feel like I wanted to go next class. Its a battle every time to know you will go and have to again (as we do it at work enough) not be myself and follow orders... 

 

I guess I simply have to be stronger as a person, step on wtv is my issue with the man and proceed in my path once done with his learnings.  (Even if that is not what I want as a relationship with any instructor, they shouldnt be treated as a commodity but a person to develop a relationship with, I may be too old school in some aspects)

[ryanryu]

This situation sounds untenable, Revario. I don’t know how long you can continue in such an unhappy situation so I’d recommend doing two things –

1)      Determine what you want to learn, specifically. What techniques, requirements, drills, do you think this teacher has that you need to learn? Set something specific to work towards.

2)      Give yourself a period of time where you will be “The Perfect Student”. 3 months? 1 month? 15 classes? Whatever it is. Just get with the program, go to class, and do what the Sensei wants. His ideas, not yours, for a finite amount of time. Then reevaluate.

You could do one or the other, possibly both at the same time, but I think it may help your mindset by having a plan like this.

I had a very difficult Sensei who I clashed with in exactly the way you describe. Clones, not students. It was easier for me to move on when I set a specific goal (to learn a final kata).

Another alternative - would this Sensei be willing to teach you privately? Perhaps he doesn't like the questions in his classes, but would be more open to your ideas in a private lesson? Still, if your philosophies are as different as you say, I'm not sure how long you can walk the path alongside this person.

[bushido_man96]

Just because you don't like someone, or how someone does things, doesn't mean you can't still learn something from them.  There are egos on both side of this; yours and his.  If his won't flex, then perhaps yours might have to, at least for a time if you think you can gain something from his teaching.  Which to me, it sounds like you probably could.

The important thing to remember is that what he teaches you doesn't demean what you already know.  You are just adding to your knowledge base.  Take what you learn in class, and then on your own time, work it from your own training philosophy.  Take notes, maybe ask some questions here and there on the side so as not to cause an issue in class.  If after a time you don't feel like the training is beneficial at all, you can always move on.

I'll say this, from my time in grappling class, there is nothing theoretical about rolling.  That's one thing BJJ and Wrestling benefit from.  A lot of instructors could benefit from that kind of exposure.

Best of luck to you, and let us know what you decide.