Age requirements to reach Black Belt?

[KarateKen]

Do you believe that there should be an age requirement for a student to reach black belt, and if so, what age would it be? 

 

[sensei8]

I was a JBB for 5 years; those students that were not 18 years old for earning a Shodan but were very capable of passing the Testing Cycle for Shodan were awarded a JBB.

I’m not bitter…now…but I was for several years because I wasn’t mature enough to deal with my feelings.

Rank is not about one’s feelings, rank is about being effective on and off the floor!! 

It’s the way of Shindokan and the SKKA to NOT permit any student to apply for the Shodan Testing Cycle because minors aren’t mature enough to deal with the awesome responsibilities that come with Shodan.

At one time, as the Kaicho of the SKKA, I could’ve campaigned and partitioned the SKKA’s Higher Hierarchy to adopt the change in the SKKA’s By-Laws but that would’ve taken an unanimous vote. Seeing that we of the Higher Hierarchy were deeply dedicated/loyal to Soke and Dai-Soke, and those two wrote the SKKA By-Laws, we weren’t going to go against their wishes even if we wanted to, and we did want to, in this particular instance, no matter how close minded we were towards this issue, change wasn’t inevitable…not going to happen because as their students, we eventually learned that in this regard that their mindset was the correct decision. 

One could say we became brainwashed in this situation by obeying a By-Law that seemed to be stuck in the past…they could. BUT we didn’t see it that way.

You see, while one can bring a horse to water, but one cannot make the horse drink the water.

[Wastelander]

Black belt ranks are a strange thing. On the one hand, in Japan/Okinawa, the Shodan rank isn't a big deal, since it just means you have learned the basics in your system, and it isn't uncommon to achieve it in 2-4 years. On the other hand, because of the way karate was introduced to the West, the importance of the Shodan rank was inflated, and the length of time to earn it was extended, so it was more common to have to train very hard, learn more material, and spend 5-8 years training to earn it. On the other-other hand, we have McDojos and belt mills cheapening the accomplishment of earning the Shodan rank to something you just pay for in advance, and we have Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu establishing the belief that a black belt means you have mastered the art and takes 10+ years to earn. That's a lot of very different perspectives on what a black belt rank means, and what it takes to earn. There is no universal standard across all arts, of course, but there also is no universal standard WITHIN any given art. Judo and BJJ usually use competition success as a fairly objective benchmark for their ranks, but outside of that, you're generally going to be seeing very different standards in every school, even among schools that do the same style, or which are part of the same organization. Any rank only has value within the school it is issued, and to a degree within the organization it is issued, but that's about it.

Now, all that said, I personally do not like the idea of giving minors black belt ranks. Regardless of how Shodan is perceived in Japan/Okinawa, I am in the US, and the way we look at Shodan tends to be more akin to the way Sandan is seen in Japan/Okinawa. Plus, my late Sensei had the same requirements for his Shodans that the organization we were in had for GODAN, minus the minimum age and time-in-grade requirements, and it generally took an average of 8 strong years of training to earn a Shodan under him. He did issue junior black belt ranks a couple of times, but the youngest person my Sensei ever tested for a proper Shodan rank was 17, and that kid tested right alongside me, having to do the exact same test as a full-grown man in his mid-20s. I would say that it's pretty rare for a 17 year old to be able to do that, but it's possible, and I'm willing to make the exception here and there, but as a general rule, I prefer not to promote anyone under the age of 18 to Shodan. I want my students to have an adult level of understanding, skill, and maturity to go along with the rank.

[sensei8]

Minors seem to think that having Shodan by itself protects them from a very determined adult heck bent on destroying said minor. 

The lack of maturity in both techniques and mindset aren’t an imaginary problem. 

Not that I’d ever want to intentionally harm a minor, but if I ever did, that minor’s Shodan would not stand any chance against me. Their actions would only anger me at their blatant audacity.

My only advice to any minor that has ever  earned Shodan, and I do commend them for training hard to achieve Shodan, is…stay in your lane.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I can understand some reluctance to award a Black Belt to Minors. Something that needs to be reinforced in class, is that it isn't a "Force Field" that is going to protect them in different situations. 

Every respectable club should have standards for each rank, including each BB Rank. 

Now as anyone here would know; we all start our journey at different ages and stages of life. 

IMHO we are also quick to forget and compare where we were in our training at Shodan against our own students at the same time. 

Now as an Instructor, I look at students attempting their Shodan and compare to myself. And I look at how they can progress and be better than I was at the same time. 

When I sit down at gradings I look at: 

• Technical Ability 
  • Knowledge of Kihon, Kata and Kumite 
  • Bunkai
  • Self-Defence Routines
• Physical Ability 
  • How you do the above 
  • Strength, Endurance etc
• Knowledge 
  • Does the Candidate demonstrate their knowledge of how and when to exploit attackers
• Verbal 
  • How you communicate with Instructors and Candidates
  • Verbal Skills for De-Escalation 
  • Inter-Personal Skills 
• Values Presentation 
  • How does the Candidates values Shine during intense situations? 
  • How does the Candidates resolve their values where potentially violent situations arise.

 

24 minutes ago, sensei8 said:

Minors seem to think that having Shodan by itself protects them from a very determined adult heck bent on destroying said minor. 

The lack of maturity in both techniques and mindset aren’t an imaginary problem. 

Not that I’d ever want to intentionally harm a minor, but if I ever did, that minor’s Shodan would not stand any chance against me. Their actions would only anger me at their blatant audacity.

My only advice to any minor that has ever  earned Shodan, and I do commend them for training hard to achieve Shodan, is…stay in your lane.

I've commented on most of your points above. 

There is one thing that I do disagree with it your post; is "Stay in your lane".  It may be because I am closer to a Shodan in Rank than your decades of experience and current grade. 

Something that I was encouraged to do well after being awarded my BB was to question and ask the difficult questions. Question why 

 

[sensei8]

My “Stay in your Lane” is directed to minors that earn a Shodan and believe that they can be effective against an adult who’s only desire is to destroy said minor at any cost. It might happen, being effective against an adult; stranger things have.

I earned my JBB at 13. As a 13 year old JBB, I wasn’t effective against an adult. I was a scrawny little kid, and my brother, who was 20 years old when I earned my JBB, was still smashing me at will.

I learned real quick that even if I was a JBB, I needed to stay in my lane because my techniques and mindset was immature. Shodan’s in the dojo were destroying me at will even though I was able to get a technique or two in but it was very rare. 

5 years later, this JBB earned a Shodan and my brother wasn’t smashing me at will anymore.

Stay in your lane is NOT meant to be an insult whatsoever, it’s just some advice. 

 

Edited July 31 by sensei8

[KarateKen]

I am not sure what the age should be, maybe 16?, before getting a black belt.  A JBB maybe start at 14?  I find it unfortunate when schools give out a BB to a 9-year-old just so grandma can brag to her friends.  

[Nidan Melbourne]

On 7/31/2025 at 1:31 PM, sensei8 said:

My “Stay in your Lane” is directed to minors that earn a Shodan and believe that they can be effective against an adult who’s only desire is to destroy said minor at any cost. It might happen, being effective against an adult; stranger things have.

I earned my JBB at 13. As a 13 year old JBB, I wasn’t effective against an adult. I was a scrawny little kid, and my brother, who was 20 years old when I earned my JBB, was still smashing me at will.

I learned real quick that even if I was a JBB, I needed to stay in my lane because my techniques and mindset was immature. Shodan’s in the dojo were destroying me at will even though I was able to get a technique or two in but it was very rare. 

5 years later, this JBB earned a Shodan and my brother wasn’t smashing me at will anymore.

Stay in your lane is NOT meant to be an insult whatsoever, it’s just some advice. 

 

Before i respond; i might disagree with stuff you have said BUT at the end of the day what you wrote is your opinion and how i respond is mine and that is ok. 

It is always ok because I know full well that there is a Generational Difference between the two of us; especially when it came to how we treat one another. Also the big difference being that in my lifetime (Mind you i'm a 1992 baby) we never dealt with a National Draft, but see what has happened with the Twin Towers, Y2K, Financial Crisis, several Invasionary Wars (because of alleged Nukes being owned).

In comparison to yours where violence was a by far a more commonn thing in what was going on in the world. 

On 7/31/2025 at 1:31 PM, sensei8 said:

Stay in your lane is NOT meant to be an insult whatsoever, it’s just some advice. 

To me it does in a way come across as an insult. 

Why?

In this context, it makes me go if I want to go expand my knowledge and skills if I was young person beyond a 1st Kyu. But to be told that I couldn't do it because I was too young. i'd be pissed off. As I was effectively tested the same as an adult for everthing up to that point. 

The way I was taught; is that the belt system is a curriculum check and that you should be competent to fight people your age.

Just like how in BJJ they say a White Belt should be able to hold their own against other White Belts and be challenged by a Blue Belt. and by the time they're a Brown Belt, they can start being a challenge to a Black Belt. 

But the difference between Karate and BJJ is that there is no distinction from the beginning for the two for age groups unless your 4 or 5 Years Old. In comparison to BJJ where the curriculum for adults start at 16, so by the time you go for your black belt your well into your 20's. 

On 7/31/2025 at 1:31 PM, sensei8 said:

believe that they can be effective against an adult who’s only desire is to destroy said minor at any cost.

If a Child believes this; then I believe that both Instructors and Parents have coddled that child into that. 

Every kid I teach, especially when they get to 2nd or 1st Kyu I remind them that they may have some skills and knowledge. But for their age, they need to be aware that there are people out there, who both know or dont know how to fight but either way could severely harm you. 

So before they can grade for the Black Belt; they have to demonstrate that they are more than capable for handling themselves against an aggressor. Not what i see in a lot of instructors where they are playing a game of tag against the kids. They need to control the fight, get me down any way possible OR get away from me. 

By that I tell students that when its their turn against me; that I am not taking it easy, i'm going to either try and hurt or pick them up and put them on my shoulder. They can't let that happen. 

 

 

[sensei8]

I do admit that my usage of “stay in your lane” was uncalled for. I surely could’ve said something much more positive. I took a cheap shot and I do regret that. Forgive me.

I was taught that students should not earn a Shodan until the age of 18 years old. Primary reason was that those students under the age of 18 years old were not mature enough to handle the responsibilities of earning a Shodan. Whether or not if this mindset is right or wrong, imho, is something that will never satisfy either side of that discussion…It is what it is.

I greatly took offense to not being allowed to earn my Shodan because of my age.

As a JBB, we were strongly encouraged to train as though we were adults because that’s how he trained everyone. In training his JBB’s, he didn’t see age, no.. he saw a black belt and trained accordingly. Dai-Soke continued training us very hard and because of that, I earned my Sandan before I should have.

Why?? 

As Dai-Soke put it…”You’re ready; you’ve been ready.”

Because of how Dai-Soke approached how he taught his JBB’s, is how I trained all of my JBB’s. Dai-Soke believed that obtaining knowledge and experience isn’t reserved for adult students only. Heck NO!! Dai-Soke never restricted our learning curve whatsoever, and because of that, neither did I.

I respect you; I always have, and I always will!! I pray that I’ve not lost any respect that you might’ve once had for me because of my poor choice of words.

[Nidan Melbourne]

12 hours ago, sensei8 said:

I respect you; I always have, and I always will!! I pray that I’ve not lost any respect that you might’ve once had for me because of my poor choice of words.

Nope no respect lost at all! because we're human and also at the end of the day we're able to have an open and honest discussion. 

 

12 hours ago, sensei8 said:

I surely could’ve said something much more positive. I took a cheap shot and I do regret that. Forgive me.

Cheap Shot? Maybe

The way I see it, after some reflection is that it was probably the only way you could put things to words. 

12 hours ago, sensei8 said:

Primary reason was that those students under the age of 18 years old were not mature enough to handle the responsibilities of earning a Shodan.

Out of curiousity; what do you mean by responsibilities? 

For me there are Three Categories (and students know it even if they don't recognise it)

1. Students who don't teach at all (and are promoted to Shodan and above

2. Students who also teach (They may alternate Teaching/Training in the same class)

3. Students who also teach but keep the two very separate (They train in a different class or elsewhere)

So I class as both 2 and 3; due to the fact that I will jump between the two where required. Usually where I am not required to teach. 

None of our Instructors that are under 18 can assist at Gradings. 

12 hours ago, sensei8 said:

Because of how Dai-Soke approached how he taught his JBB’s, is how I trained all of my JBB’s. Dai-Soke believed that obtaining knowledge and experience isn’t reserved for adult students only. Heck NO!! Dai-Soke never restricted our learning curve whatsoever, and because of that, neither did I.

Obviously I don't know how your organisation was run nor do I know how your Soke or Dai Soke ran things. 

But from my humble opinion; it did seem like there was a curve to how things were taught due to the differences in competencies in how they fight. 

 When I look at both a JBB and a Shodan; there can be a massive ln                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      j