Proposal: bareknuckle, full-contact Karate with no kicks, just body punches and nothing else.

[KarateKen]

Is this tread an April fools prank? 

[Nidan Melbourne]

18 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

Good punch = no need for grapple.

Ummm I never mentioned having to grapple.

Besides if I can get my opponent to the ground, and not my big butt why would I go to the ground? I'm getting the absolute 'F' out of there. I'm not continuing the fight, if they get up and catch up to me (likely) I've forced them to run to just continue a fight. 

Which then is even stupider on their behalf; because it is then a meditated attack by them. 

Now, I do tend to prefer breaking a joint and restraining over straight up knocking the person out. But 

8 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

Then every MMA fighter does not have good punch.

 

Have you ever been to a school that advertises "self defense"?

Question: How do you define a "Good Punch"? 

Is it based off: Biomechanical Form? Strike Power? Knockout %? Targetting? 

What I've learnt about MMA Fighters; they are 1 of 3 classes when it comes to striking with their hands: 

1. Strong Strikes 

2. Weak-Moderate Strikes; BUT amazing targeting (i.e hitting the 'off' switch aka the jaw) BUT Better timing

3. Strong Strikes AND amazing targeting + timing

This you can apply to almost every combat sport that incorporates hand strikes. 

 

Although @crash has a point; you can practice all you want to knock someone out, but if you don't have the right timing then your not going to go far. Thats why when you watch that slap competition, not many people get knocked out. But the likelihood of a concussion is stupidly high. 

 

To me there is a difference between "Self-Defence" and "Self-Defence" and how its taught. but the problem is telling the difference between the two, and knowing how it is effective. 

Experienced practitioners tend to recognise the difference between the two. 

[Zayd_Nofal]

17 minutes ago, Nidan Melbourne said:

How do you define a "Good Punch"? 

Do you know how Houdini died?

[Wastelander]

12 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

Then every MMA fighter does not have good punch.

 

Have you ever been to a school that advertises "self defense"?

The first statement is obviously false.

Yes, I have been to schools that advertise self-defense. I am not saying that there isn't bad self-defense out there, I'm saying that I haven't seen overly complicated self-defense techniques from practical karate schools, specifically.

4 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

Do you know how Houdini died?

I think most people know that Houdini died from a punch to the body, after a career of taking body punches as part of his act, and while he likely had appendicitis, which was the real reason the punch killed him. One person dying from a body punch in no way validates punches to the body as being a particularly effective way of defending yourself. As I previously pointed out, the existence of Kyokushin competitions completely debunks that belief, as thousands of competitors take thousands of body shots on a regular basis without injury or death. I will also point out that one of your key reasons for wanting to take this body-only sparring approach is because it is safer than striking to the head, which also directly contradicts your claim that body punches are ideal for self-defense.

[Zayd_Nofal]

54 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

The first statement is obviously false.

Yes, I have been to schools that advertise self-defense. I am not saying that there isn't bad self-defense out there, I'm saying that I haven't seen overly complicated self-defense techniques from practical karate schools, specifically.

I think most people know that Houdini died from a punch to the body, after a career of taking body punches as part of his act, and while he likely had appendicitis, which was the real reason the punch killed him. One person dying from a body punch in no way validates punches to the body as being a particularly effective way of defending yourself. As I previously pointed out, the existence of Kyokushin competitions completely debunks that belief, as thousands of competitors take thousands of body shots on a regular basis without injury or death. I will also point out that one of your key reasons for wanting to take this body-only sparring approach is because it is safer than striking to the head, which also directly contradicts your claim that body punches are ideal for self-defense.

If one's body punch isn't enough to send an attacker to the hospital, then their Karate is useless.

Edited yesterday at 06:09 PM by Zayd_Nofal

[Wastelander]

29 minutes ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

If one's body punch isn't enough to send an attacker to the hospital, then their Karate is useless.

Again, by saying this you are essentially admitting that your karate is "useless," as is the karate of pretty much all Kyokushin karateka, which is the style you purport to like the best, not to mention all the other karate schools out there who do full-contact sparring, because the vast, VAST majority of full-contact punches to the body that occur do not send anyone to the hospital, and it also directly contradicts your reasoning for the body-only sparring (safety in full-contact sparring) that you proposed in this thread.

I hope you know that none of us in this thread are trying to be discouraging or belittling in our responses. We are simply giving you the feedback you asked for when you started this thread. There's nothing wrong with workshopping an idea like this, but you should be willing to accept that everything has its downsides as well as its upsides.

[crash]

6 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

Do you know how Houdini died?

how houdini died has zero to do with self defense. to stand still and allow to be hit is not self defense, and is in no way even close to being hit while moving or fighting.

47 minutes ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

If one's body punch isn't enough to send an attacker to the hospital, then their Karate is useless.

which leads into this quote.. no matter how hard you can hit a still object, you will never land with that power on someone in a real fight. even sucker punching someone unexpectedly is rarely hit accurately due to most times being picked up peripherally and semi dodged or deflected....( plus if your comment is correct then your "scool" or "club" would be very short lived due to everyone being hospitalized....lol)

[Zayd_Nofal]

11 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Again, by saying this you are essentially admitting that your karate is "useless," as is the karate of pretty much all Kyokushin karateka, which is the style you purport to like the best, not to mention all the other karate schools out there who do full-contact sparring, because the vast, VAST majority of full-contact punches to the body that occur do not send anyone to the hospital, and it also directly contradicts your reasoning for the body-only sparring (safety in full-contact sparring) that you proposed in this thread.

I hope you know that none of us in this thread are trying to be discouraging or belittling in our responses. We are simply giving you the feedback you asked for when you started this thread. There's nothing wrong with workshopping an idea like this, but you should be willing to accept that everything has its downsides as well as its upsides.

In competition, people expect to fight and contract their abs ahead of time as well as regulate their breathing to render body punches less effective. If someone attacks you, they will probably not be doing any of that.

In any case, at the moment, I am doing little besides training my punching power and doing resistance exercises that increase their power. So far, it is working out pretty good and I feel like a better fighter than I did when I was practicing more complicated techniques.

[Zayd_Nofal]

10 hours ago, crash said:

how houdini died has zero to do with self defense.

 

Not true. He was punched by surprise and did not have the opportunity to contract his abdominals and breathe out properly. In fact, the puncher remarked that subsequent punches were met by rock-hard abdominals as the magician was now expecting it. Case in point: if someone doesn't expect a body punch, it will be more effective.

[crash]

8 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

 Case in point: if someone doesn't expect a body punch, it will be more effective.

blindsided, maybe, that is only why "sucker punches" work. not expected, but the variable is it is only before the fight actually starts, (or how it starts mor likely) but once fighting it is a different story.... as has been stated before by others, not criticizing your idea, i just see "faults" in it. (for me anyways). we all train for what we think will work best for our own purposes, if you think body punches only is best, then go that route and see where it leads you. your path is yours and yours only.  no one style or method is perfect or the "best", and no style is unbeatable. heck, we all make subtle changes to fit our needs or preferences, most here have cross trained in more than one style and taken a little from this and added a little of that....figure out how YOU want to practice and go with it......

 

8 hours ago, Zayd_Nofal said:

In any case, at the moment, I am doing little besides training my punching power and doing resistance exercises that increase their power. So far, it is working out pretty good and I feel like a better fighter than I did when I was practicing more complicated techniques.

nothing wrong with that. my first instructor always said "if you want to have the best side kick, throw 1000 sidekicks a day. if you want to be the best puncher, stay on the heavy bag all day"...... its all practice. figure out what you want and how you want to fight and practice just that way. make adjustments as you go..... you may be happy with the results, or you may go full circle before you find what feels "right"...... along the way you can always ask for others experience's and methods or styles. and what works for them in certain situations.... lots of experience here to needle for when needed. everyone is just giving their honest advice and ideas, how you use it is up to you.

Edited 3 hours ago by crash