On Ko Chi Shin

[Nidan Melbourne]

On Ko Chi Shin - To learn from the old is to understand the new.

A fascinating thing that I learnt about a few years ago courtesy of Jesse Enkamp Sensei. At the time, I never really gave it much thought or explored it much since with my training or even teaching.

But since I have taken some time away from my training, I have noticed that when I do look at what i've learnt; I find that I am understanding that line better and finding that I am learning from the old and understanding the more recent "stuff" I have learnt to a much deeper level.

One of the things that I have explored and perform more naturally is our Gyakusoku Kumite + our various Bunkai. Doing each step with natural stances, movements and angles, also not "returning" to Kamae after every step.

When I did it in the dojo previously, it felt unnatural to return to kamae where you finished the last step and not returning to your starting position. But now as I train, it feels natural to do each step from where we finished up.

For example, Gyakusoku Kumite San for us teaches about angles. So we would move in a U shape.

What does that line mean to you and your training, or how do you interpret it?

[sensei8]

Great topic, Nidan Melbourne; thank you for sharing.

What does that line mean to you and your training, or how do you interpret it?

That line means everything to me as well as to my MA betterment.

Growth is essential for a MAist to achieve an effective betterment. On-Ko-Chi-Shin is quite parallel to Shu Ha Ri in that they both have the ability to form, function, or develop effectiveness in the MAist.

In Shu Ha Ri, Shu protects as well as obeys tradition by focusing on fundamentals, techniques, and instructions. In Ha, the MAist breaks away from tradition so that one can consider other means. In Ri, there are no established techniques so that movements can become natural.

On-Ko-Chi-Shin, On respects tradition, just like Shu. Ko focuses on creativity, just like Ha. Chi expresses the search of wisdom and excellence, just like Ri.

If a MAist wants to learn how to skin a cat, then one might want to discover both the old as well as the new ways. Afterall, we each have a special potential to expand and develop positively towards future growth. To learn from the old is to understand the new is paramount for any MAist.

Imho.

Edited July 24 by sensei8

[Nidan Melbourne]

Its funny, I was thinking about this post after i posted it the other day and how it translates to our daily lives.

Because for us to grow as individuals, we need to understand why we did things when we were younger. Yes even the stuff about ourselves we don't really understand. Is the key for us to understand us here and now in this time of day.

For instance, I am not the same person even remotely from 2019 to the me here and now writing this particular post.

Back then, I honestly struggled with identifying how I felt and couldn't admit that was something I was dealing with. Even in rehabilitation I was in denial about it. Now during the worst time of my life, I am having to admit that the path i took was the wrong one and having to go back and forge a new path.

Because here July 19th 2024, I have an amazing child in my life who I absolutely adore. The journey of self-discovery, and re-parenting myself has led to a lot of eye opening moments where things are clearer than they ever were.

Now how does this relate back to the topic at hand. Karate like Life, has different paths for us to follow; some dead ends, some long, some short, some baffling, some straight forward, Ups and Downs. So as I have taken some time away from the mats, I look at things with new eyes and a new mind.

So I am understanding where I came from, understanding where I am going and have the ability to follow those various paths of my Martial Arts Journey but also in my own life where I can safely grow, and allow myself to truly feel where to go and what to do.

Which is something that I believe the old masters intended, that we need to feel for what is the right thing to do and for us to go.

[sensei8]

Its funny, I was thinking about this post after i posted it the other day and how it translates to our daily lives.

Because for us to grow as individuals, we need to understand why we did things when we were younger. Yes even the stuff about ourselves we don't really understand. Is the key for us to understand us here and now in this time of day.

For instance, I am not the same person even remotely from 2019 to the me here and now writing this particular post.

Back then, I honestly struggled with identifying how I felt and couldn't admit that was something I was dealing with. Even in rehabilitation I was in denial about it. Now during the worst time of my life, I am having to admit that the path i took was the wrong one and having to go back and forge a new path.

Because here July 19th 2024, I have an amazing child in my life who I absolutely adore. The journey of self-discovery, and re-parenting myself has led to a lot of eye opening moments where things are clearer than they ever were.

Now how does this relate back to the topic at hand. Karate like Life, has different paths for us to follow; some dead ends, some long, some short, some baffling, some straight forward, Ups and Downs. So as I have taken some time away from the mats, I look at things with new eyes and a new mind.

So I am understanding where I came from, understanding where I am going and have the ability to follow those various paths of my Martial Arts Journey but also in my own life where I can safely grow, and allow myself to truly feel where to go and what to do.

Which is something that I believe the old masters intended, that we need to feel for what is the right thing to do and for us to go.

Solid post!!

Shu Ha Ri and On-Ko-Chi-Shin are not reserved for us MAists. No. Both of these concepts highlight the journey of learning and mastery, whether in martial arts or other disciplines away from the MA.

[Wastelander]

On-Ko-Chi-Shin is a favorite Japanese/Okinawan proverb of mine, and it reminds me of the other quotes. One is "there is nothing new under the sun," which I can't remember the source of, another is "do not seek to follow in the footstep of the wise, seek what they sought," by Basho Matsuo, and the other is "tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire," by Gustav Mahler.

To me, On-Ko-Chi-Shin is a reminder that no matter how far we advance and improve on what we've learned, we can always go back to older sources and learn more from them. We can even learn more from them than was originally intended, provided we follow the path that those sources laid out. As Bob rightly points out, this ties into Shu-Ha-Ri quite well, as it is a cyclical process.

[bushido_man96]

Often those ideals we apply to our Martial Arts training are those that come from life as well. After all, most of us are studying the MAs in order to better ourselves. In the end, we better ourselves and our MA practice, and hopefully have some effect on those around us.

Being mostly a Korean style practitioner, I'd not seen that saying before. To me, it means seeing, studying, and understanding not only what was done in the past and how it was done, but why it was done. I can dig some of this out of my Aikido experiences. Many of the wrist grabbing techniques stem from defenses in having the sword-hand or hands seized. We spend time studying the how's and why's of defending such an attack, but in our current time, not many people are carrying swords around. So, we begin looking at how to apply the same concepts and principles with what we are likely to face today.

The Sensei at times will make mention that a specific technique is very "aiki," and at times will make mention of a "tactical" application. I can see On-Ko-Chi-Shin at times like this.

[ryanryu]

On 7/18/2024 at 11:19 AM, Nidan Melbourne said:

Its funny, I was thinking about this post after i posted it the other day and how it translates to our daily lives.

Because for us to grow as individuals, we need to understand why we did things when we were younger. Yes even the stuff about ourselves we don't really understand. Is the key for us to understand us here and now in this time of day.

For instance, I am not the same person even remotely from 2019 to the me here and now writing this particular post.

Back then, I honestly struggled with identifying how I felt and couldn't admit that was something I was dealing with. Even in rehabilitation I was in denial about it. Now during the worst time of my life, I am having to admit that the path i took was the wrong one and having to go back and forge a new path.

Because here July 19th 2024, I have an amazing child in my life who I absolutely adore. The journey of self-discovery, and re-parenting myself has led to a lot of eye opening moments where things are clearer than they ever were.

Now how does this relate back to the topic at hand. Karate like Life, has different paths for us to follow; some dead ends, some long, some short, some baffling, some straight forward, Ups and Downs. So as I have taken some time away from the mats, I look at things with new eyes and a new mind.

So I am understanding where I came from, understanding where I am going and have the ability to follow those various paths of my Martial Arts Journey but also in my own life where I can safely grow, and allow myself to truly feel where to go and what to do.

Which is something that I believe the old masters intended, that we need to feel for what is the right thing to do and for us to go.

This is one of the best posts I’ve read on this forum, Nidan Melbourne.

I think a lot about how karate training applies to life outside the dojo and I think you really hit the core here –

As we train, we’re always revisiting what we’ve learned. Studying the old to understand the new, with this mindset of continuously studying our technique and our practice to keep it up to standards. It’s a process of continual refinement that is based on self-reflection.

I think this ability to look honestly at yourself is the most important benefit of martial arts training because it applies to every other part of your life too. Having a child made this real clear to me too - When trying to teach a toddler to identify and control their emotions, I have to pause and think about whether I do that for myself. Same thing with asking for help or treating others with kindness. At least I’m potty trained.

I love how martial arts, and karate in particular, has this well of lessons to pull from when you need it. It’s a deep art and I’ve found it provides a different perspective on life than I get from other places.