Please stay safe when picking a Dojo!

[aurik]

While I wholeheartedly agree that instructors should generally not berate students, intimidate students, or attempt to/injure students, there is also a very fine line the instructor needs to tread with certain students. As an instructor for advanced youth students (generally 4th kyu and up), I see this frequently. Specifically, we have a number of students who do not have what I would call "the appropriate martial attitude" when it comes to training.

For example, in a two-person drill, students get into the habit of kicking to the air next to their partner, or just lazily putting their arm out there for a punch, or just "going through the motions". I see this all the time in bunkai, kotekitae (arm/leg conditioning), and yakusoku kumite. Whenever I train with someone (depending on their rank), I'll give them coaching that this is a bad habit to get into, and encourage them to get into the habit of striking at their opponent.

If a student ends up approaching his/her brown belt test and still is having these issues, they end up having a "come to Jesus" meeting with our CI, usually on the dojo floor while doing their dan-level yakusoku kumite, and at this point it's usually a "sink or swim" test. He'll run the drill at the intensity he thinks it should be run at, and he'll add some verbal pressure to the mix. He won't say anything abusive or derogatory to the student, but he will tell them "You have to attack harder", or tell them what they're doing isn't correct, and he'll say it at an elevated voice.

His philosophy (which I wholeheartedly agree with) s that a) it's better for the students to learn to deal with pressure in a controlled environment than on the streets, and b) when one of his students is a brown belt (and moreso a black belt), they represent him, and he wants to make sure they've really earned it. For some students it's a hard test to pass. He has made students cry before, and a few have quit over it. However, from my perspective I think he stays well on the "constructive criticism" side of that line.

[sensei8]

Finding a dojo that embodies safety for all, and not just the Student Body is primary, and I take everyone's safety very seriously. I've had new students, both children and adults, join my dojo because they were scared to return to their dojo for one reason or another. I never pressed them for their reasons as to why they wanted to leave their dojo because that was to me, unimportant.

I had to earn their trust, first and foremost.

I'm strict and firm, yet compassionate. I'm on first name basis with everyone in my dojo and my students are on first name basis with me. My Student Body is everything to me and their safety is paramount without any exceptions whatsoever.

If any student isn't giving their best at all times both in class, and they're not sick, then I've no problem in sending them home. Repeated lack of efforts earns them a varying suspension. I've ended Testing Cycles before they've even started or at any given moment because of attitude and/or effort, to name a few.

Whenever the dust settles, safety of my Student Body has no exceptions whatsoever!!

[bushido_man96]

While I wholeheartedly agree that instructors should generally not berate students, intimidate students, or attempt to/injure students, there is also a very fine line the instructor needs to tread with certain students. As an instructor for advanced youth students (generally 4th kyu and up), I see this frequently. Specifically, we have a number of students who do not have what I would call "the appropriate martial attitude" when it comes to training.

For example, in a two-person drill, students get into the habit of kicking to the air next to their partner, or just lazily putting their arm out there for a punch, or just "going through the motions". I see this all the time in bunkai, kotekitae (arm/leg conditioning), and yakusoku kumite. Whenever I train with someone (depending on their rank), I'll give them coaching that this is a bad habit to get into, and encourage them to get into the habit of striking at their opponent.

If a student ends up approaching his/her brown belt test and still is having these issues, they end up having a "come to Jesus" meeting with our CI, usually on the dojo floor while doing their dan-level yakusoku kumite, and at this point it's usually a "sink or swim" test. He'll run the drill at the intensity he thinks it should be run at, and he'll add some verbal pressure to the mix. He won't say anything abusive or derogatory to the student, but he will tell them "You have to attack harder", or tell them what they're doing isn't correct, and he'll say it at an elevated voice.

His philosophy (which I wholeheartedly agree with) s that a) it's better for the students to learn to deal with pressure in a controlled environment than on the streets, and b) when one of his students is a brown belt (and moreso a black belt), they represent him, and he wants to make sure they've really earned it. For some students it's a hard test to pass. He has made students cry before, and a few have quit over it. However, from my perspective I think he stays well on the "constructive criticism" side of that line.

What you are describing here is not what I would say rises to the level of being an abusive instructor. There are times when hard teaching is required, and that sounds like what your instructor does. He's trying to retain a certain quality in the students he puts forward as black belts, as all schools should. This is appropriate and necessary in the Martial Arts, and is not what I would consider falling to the level of embarrassing or belittling students.

[KarateKen]

I read a post that is extremely concerning and very troublesome to say the least. A karate dojo is not supposed to be run through fear but it must be a place of hard work, knowledge and creative endeavor.

I make this thread out of a very horrific incident in early 2000s I experienced as a young teen in Shotokan karate which was an extremely abusive sensei who was a kata freak and claimed he could beat Mike Tyson in a fight because he has a black belt and he absolutely ran his classes using shame and fear. Encouraging young adults to laugh at young kids if they messed up on a kata. Long story short, you do not learn how to fight and yet end up with a massive ego because of kata memorization.

Now I thought these people were weeded out in the mid-2000s. But it seems like they are not.

I remember I got in to boxing big time and still am. In fact, as a Tang Soo Do practitioner, I am encouraged to mix boxing to my skills for evasion, footwork, using jabs to set up strikes and angling off to safety or better position. This is was taught to me because my teachers were very encouraging, they absolutely pushed me to my absolute limits to the point of passing out with nonstop footwork training in terms of bouncing, jumping, spinning, switching in between boxing modalities to Tang Soo Do. So we trained super hard and we looked at jab variations, level changing, wide stance, narrow stance, muscle training, bone conditioning, breath work from Yoga, Qi Gong, Kiba dachi or horse stance for balance and posture.

Going back to the boxing gym, our training paid off, I would switch stances, bounce, go from side stance to squaring up close range. This is the essence of karate, its to truly find art, perfection, excellence through extreme effort and engaging in the subtle aspect of martial arts. Meanwhile to simply train as a way to just memorize kata is the opposite of the karate spirit, your goal is liberation and not self-imposed imprisonment of your soul. One of the reasons why I always respected the Kyokushin karatekas. They are different but same spirit and passion.

I AM ANGRY!

Honestly, I am really riled up and typing very aggressively and its extremely depressing to hear that karate dojos that are like the pre-MMA days. I always loved how MMA stressed the importance of freestyle combat. Granted, I did not like or agree with everything they do and I find that they are a bit neglectful on fundamentals but I always loved how they focused on freestyle aspect of the martial arts. Now I assumed all was well but moments before making this thread, I was completely horrified that there are dojos that run their practice using fear, shame and suppression. Honestly, this is a HUGE deal for me. If you guys are in US/Canada, I can show up to places like this and I would be more than happy to expose them.

I am generally very laxed about different martial arts and I am cool with hobbyist who look at it as basic self defense, fun exercise and community. No issue with them but I have a huge problem with someone selling things that doesn't work and doing it aggressively and using shame and fear as a way to avoid being scrutinized. This is my main issue and it is a huge issue for me. I feel like we have to really call this out and if you guys have a story or wish to share, please feel free.

Sounds terrible. Thanks for sharing your experience.