Karate and lack of public interest...

[DarthPenguin]

- Made a point to "mix things up" on a regular basis. For example, they both had a set curriculum that would be tested on, but every so often, they'd have a class on "cool stuff that isn't going to be tested on, but it's fun and useful"

As long as this is done correctly, because this being done incorrectly is one the main reason I quit my last dojo and moved on to another.

My last dojo had an hours requirement for eligibility to test. And they made it a point to spread everything - especially katas - over all of the hours, instead of giving them to you up front and then you polish it up from there. That said, when I had classes that were focused on things that were not testable, I was livid. We were doing that "extra" stuff, when we didn't have everything we needed for the test. Eventually that, along with other things, is why I packed up and moved on to another dojo.

I think this is one of those areas where everyone has a difference preference tbh. I would personally be with Aurik on this one, where i like some new stuff every so often for fun (extra sparring focused stuff / more random pad drills etc). I suppose one benefit we have is that we have a very clearly delineated syllabus which i can look up online if needed and i know i will be tested to by the chief examiner. I also always make a point of learning my new kata in advance of first session post grading (the moves anyway) to make a running start.

[aurik]

I think this is one of those areas where everyone has a difference preference tbh. I would personally be with Aurik on this one, where i like some new stuff every so often for fun (extra sparring focused stuff / more random pad drills etc). I suppose one benefit we have is that we have a very clearly delineated syllabus which i can look up online if needed and i know i will be tested to by the chief examiner. I also always make a point of learning my new kata in advance of first session post grading (the moves anyway) to make a running start.

One of the benefits of Uechi-Ryu is that there isn't that much new material to learn for each kyu grade. For example, we only have eight kata in our system (with their associated bunkai), three different yakusoku kumite drills, and a few other pieces of required material. What students are graded on is the quality of their techniques, not necessarily how many techniques/kata/drills they know. Our kyu levels are broken down into groups of 3, based upon what kata they are tested on: Kanshiwa (for 9th, 8th, 7th kyu), Kanshu (for 6/5/4), and Seichin (3/2/1). Within each grouping they are expected to memorize the kata, then be able to demonstrate the kata with appropriate power, and at the third level, they are expected to demonstrate the kata with proper timing, power, and technique. What makes things hard in our style is that when you learn a new concept in your new kata, you're expected to propagate that concept all the way through your karate, from the first kata / bunkai / yakusoku kumite you've learned all the way up to your current material.

Back to the original issue though, the CI definitely needs to find a balance between "bonus material" and "making sure students can progress through the curriculum at an appropriate rate". My CI tends to do 1 in 4 classes with "bonus material", and that seems to work pretty well for us. For advanced students, that balance tends to shift somewhat -- our brown/black belt class has bonus material more frequently -- more like 1/3 to 1/2 of the time. Of course, if your style requires new material at every kyu grade, then that calculus changes.

[Sailor Sindbad]

I would personally be with Aurik on this one,

I get it, everybody's always with whoever I'm talking to. Okay, moving on...

where i like some new stuff every so often for fun (extra sparring focused stuff / more random pad drills etc). I suppose one benefit we have is that we have a very clearly delineated syllabus which i can look up online if needed and i know i will be tested to by the chief examiner. I also always make a point of learning my new kata in advance of first session post grading (the moves anyway) to make a running start.

Except we couldn't do this. We'd get ripped a new one if we came into the dojo doing what we learned on YouTube. Or doing what we see higher belts in the dojo doing. Even if you know the whole kata (by observing others), you're only allowed to perform up to what you've officially been trained on in the dojo. And if you know more that what you've officially been trained on, then you best keep your mouth shut.

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about that where I am now.

[dennis63]

I've always been somewhat skeptical of karate being marketed to families with children as a cure for poor grades and hyperactivity.

I understand that any school wants to have lots of young beginners. In the schools run as a profit-making business, kids are often the life-blood of that business.

But look at the result. If you talk about karate in the United States, the average (non-martial arts) person thinks of a 9-year-old in an ill-fitting gi doing some horrible technique. An adult who says he or she practices karate would be mocked by most Americans.

The image of an adult, of the karateka as an elite athlete similar to say an NCAA football player or gymnast, does not exist in the United States, even though the athletes who do all three sports would have a lot in common.

Karate is viewed very differently in Japan, and is considered a much more serious pursuit.

The questions I ask myself are:

Does a small child have the maturity to learn techniques that could be dangerous; and

Is it really smart to market karate as some kind of holistic cure for Attention Deficit Disorder?

By marketing karate to kids, are we actually reducing its popularity among adults?

I'd be interested to know what people here think.

[Himokiri Karate]

I would personally be with Aurik on this one,

I get it, everybody's always with whoever I'm talking to. Okay, moving on...

where i like some new stuff every so often for fun (extra sparring focused stuff / more random pad drills etc). I suppose one benefit we have is that we have a very clearly delineated syllabus which i can look up online if needed and i know i will be tested to by the chief examiner. I also always make a point of learning my new kata in advance of first session post grading (the moves anyway) to make a running start.

Except we couldn't do this. We'd get ripped a new one if we came into the dojo doing what we learned on YouTube. Or doing what we see higher belts in the dojo doing. Even if you know the whole kata (by observing others), you're only allowed to perform up to what you've officially been trained on in the dojo. And if you know more that what you've officially been trained on, then you best keep your mouth shut.

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about that where I am now.

Dude, LEAVE a Dojo with that mindset!

This is scary stuff if you have to worry about this kind of thing. No dojo is supposed to instill this level of fear. Even in Cobra Kai, students mess around and have fun. I know some dojos that are run like this or I used to before the rise of MMA. In the early 2000s, I met very abusive shotokan experts and training with them was an absolute waste of time. Had the same mentality of freaking out if someone was doing a kata learned from a different style. He also claimed that he could beat Mike Tyson in a fight. Total goof and I lost so much respect for Karate for a solid decade because of these people.

MMA came in mid-2000s, got interested in boxing and judo. But then through progression, I discovered Tang Soo Do and Kyokushin. Both value fighting over being a form elitist, its important that you have great cardio, technique and fighting spirit and during Kyokushin sparring, the teachers were always praising my boxing footwork and evasion as well as encouraging me to also incorporate Kyokushin combos.

Same in Tang Soo Do and old school Taekwondo, we would use the guard to parry, catch punches, throw counters in conjunction with hand technique as well as bounce in and out as well as use side step shuffles to angle off strikes. They too also were very encouraging about the boxing techniques and they do also recognized the importance of footwork and using lead hand like jabs to set up other strikes or slip in to a better position.

These kata warriors are dudes that cant fight and yet act hard or are fake humble pretending like they are above sparring. So they hide behind their katas to protect their delusional thinking. If someone does some kata, they freak out and fly of the handle. Sad part is, they tend to be weaker than a random brawler who is more dangerous because they are at least unpredictable with punches and haymakers.

Please leave this type of dojo. I say this as someone who is very concerned with what I just read. This is not the type of place you want to be my friend. As a karateka, we have to honor the art by learning to explore in its unconventional roots and engage in its chaotic nature. Otherwise karate will be dishonored in its stature.

[bushido_man96]

I've always been somewhat skeptical of karate being marketed to families with children as a cure for poor grades and hyperactivity.

I understand that any school wants to have lots of young beginners. In the schools run as a profit-making business, kids are often the life-blood of that business.

But look at the result. If you talk about karate in the United States, the average (non-martial arts) person thinks of a 9-year-old in an ill-fitting gi doing some horrible technique. An adult who says he or she practices karate would be mocked by most Americans.

The image of an adult, of the karateka as an elite athlete similar to say an NCAA football player or gymnast, does not exist in the United States, even though the athletes who do all three sports would have a lot in common.

Karate is viewed very differently in Japan, and is considered a much more serious pursuit.

The questions I ask myself are:

Does a small child have the maturity to learn techniques that could be dangerous; and

Is it really smart to market karate as some kind of holistic cure for Attention Deficit Disorder?

By marketing karate to kids, are we actually reducing its popularity among adults?

I'd be interested to know what people here think.

I've never had an issue with children studying the Martial Arts. We would be proud of the prodigy that excels from a young age, but are we to throw away the opportunity for the rest of them to try, even if they are not as good?

I don't know that the advent of kid-focused classes was necessarily the downfall of adult classes. I think society has changed and adults have less time on their hands for hobby pursuits that may require 3-6 hours of their time a week, not including possible commute times. Adults are just busy. I think this has more to do with it than kids classes. If anything, I've seen parents decide to join because their kids were doing it.

I just think there is another answer.