What are your promotion tests like?

[Tyler]

For the lower kyu ranks, it's three hours, beginning with 100 pushups. For the upper kyu ranks, it's 8 hours of hell. It starts with 45 minutes worth of calisthenics, then a 5 mile run which includes sprints. There's knuckle pushups on the asphalt, and kumite, and then going through the entire curriculum up to the rank you're testing for, with more calisthenics spread throughout the test. The black belt test is this, plus requires 500 pushups.

After going through my first test for the upper kyu ranks, I'm second-guessing whether or not I want to ever do that again.

I'm doing some research, and I'm finding that not all dojos are like this.

But I want to hear directly from people out there.

Hi Sailor Sinbad

Wow !!

compared to my Dojo in Japan it isn nothing like that!

running 5 miles and 500 push ups, really>?

sounds like they might be shooting themselves in the foot as most people wouldnt want such a hard training and burden. especially the older people who work full time unless your dojo is going after the people who want more of an overall work out mixed with some karate?

May I ask in your regular sessions do you have to run and do push ups everytime and how long are your usual training sessions.

If you feel it is too much I would also recommend trying some other doJos out as well to make sure its really for you?

But sounds like one hell of a great military style workout

[sensei8]

1-3 days long depending on the Testing Cycle level; the higher the level, the more must be done. Godan and above Testing Cycles usually take up to 3 full days to complete.

At each Testing Cycle stage, the Candidate will execute each and every technique taught in said curriculum level for THAT Testing Cycle particular level; inasmuch, the higher the testing level, the more must be,

That's the Kihon stage. There MUST be a noted improvement before advancing to the next stage. If not, the Testing Cycle for that candidate at said stage is terminated.

Second stage is Kata, including Kobudo Kata for 6th Kyu and above c

Candidates. Of course, Testing Cycle Candidates must execute all required Kata's per their level. There, too, must be a noted improvement before advancing to the next stage.

Third stage is Bunkai of which the Testing Cyle Candidates must execute all required Bunkai per their level. Once again, there must be noted improvements before advancing to the next stage.

Fourth stage is Kumite:

**Ippon Kumite (one step sparring)

**Sanbon Kumite (three-step sparring)

**Gohon Kumite (five-step sparring)

**Kiso Kumite (derived from a Kata

**Jiyu Ippon Kumite (one step semi-free sparring)

**Jiyu Kumite (free sparring)

Again, there must be a noted improvements before advancing to the next stage.

Stage six is Q&A, of which varies by the Candidates level as well as their experience and knowledge.

Stage seven's where said Candidate submits their specific Thesis. Thesis topics are chosen by the Candidates from a provided list which was sent to every network dojo by the Hombu weeks before the Testing Cycle deadline, of which the candidates are required to return said Thesis back to the Hombu for its review. Not all Testing Cycles Candidates are required to submit a Thesis of which these are usually required from Sankyu to Hachidan.

We test every rank from Jukyu to Hachidan with no exceptions. Kudan and Judan are reserved for the current Kancho and Kaicho; there's only one of each at any given time.

All Testing Cycles from Godan to Hachidan are required to Test at the Hombu. All ranks can submit a request to Test at the Hombu, and not at their home Dojo, of which, those request must be submitted 3 months before the next Hombu Testing Cycle.

No one can attend a Testing Cycle without the explicit approval of the Hombu. All network dojo's must submit all Testing Cycle Candidates lists to the Hombu 6 months before the next scheduled Testing Cycle. Inasmuch, each Testing Cycle Candidate must submit to their immediate CI a Petition to Testing Cycle application beforehand, of which the CI then submits all approved Petitions to the Hombu by that 6 months deadline.

Hombu will then approve or denial all Testing Cycle Candidates accordingly in a given time frame decided by the Hombu. All denied can resubmit the following year, and no CI can conduct a Testing Cylcle In-House without the explicit approval of the Hombu.

Randomly, chosen and approved representatives of the Hombu will make unannounced visits to a network dojo to ensure that Testing Cycle protocols are adhered. Any network dojo found in violation might face severe discipline, anywhere from a letter of reprimand to expulsion.

Seems harsh?? Seems whatever else? Not when the integrity of rank is involved.

the only thing that seems "harsh" or pointless in some organizations testing programs is the fact that they are made to be more of an ego boost for the participants to feel good about themselves...lol... to the point of even possibly causing injury. (not speaking of your org. personally.) if someone is training daily, or at least 4 ties per week they are going to know their stuff and improve regardless of whether they test or not. someones level of knowledge, form, etc... is completely what they put into it.... a harsh test or painful test dousnt make them better....and is actually pointless, they either know their stuff or they dont, which is something the instructor should know long before they test. the test is strictly for show....it really means nothing. now the last sentence you wrote i do slightly disagree with. the integrity of rank...rank has no integrity. you even stated if they show improvement they pass...but are they as good as everyone else?...does everyone have to show an equil or the same ability to pass for the same rank?... when doing calisthenics, or warm up, does everyone have to be able to do the splits? or be able to kick as high or as powerful as the next guy? if not then rank has no integrity. it is not equil and therefore shows no true level of ability.....now integrity of the person is a different issue....lol...ive trained at dojo's who were strictly traditional or under an org. and ive trained at more laid back dojo's with no governing body but superb instruction, ive even trained at a couple dojo's with only two belts, white and black...still had tests, and once you reached what would be brown belt you were allowed to wear the hakama that was part of that style as a reward. but only stripes for everything inbetween. it worked out actually as good as a colored belt system if not better in a lot of ways....testing is for the ego of the students and a reward to keep them interested. that is also why some schools with blue belt programs and the likes has a high drop out rate once that level is reached, and why so many people quit after reaching their goal of blackbelt even..it is a double edged sword in a lot of ways, it sets a goal but dousnt add anything to retention for later.....rank is what you make it, nothing more, nothing less. there is nothing special, mystical, or anything else to it... a person can be a 10th dan and still be the worst person or have the worst attitude and manners in the room....lol... what we do is nothing but repetition, the moves can be learned by anyone willing to put in the time and effort, testing is just a formality.

Solid post, crash!!

Some clarity, if I may...

I was speaking about the Testing Cycles that are held once a year at our Hombu. Because of said candidate is being tested at the Hombu, and not at the dojo they daily train at, the Hombu has no clear definable preconceived notions and/or ideas about any testing candidate like that said candidates very own CI. That CI knows their students, however, the Hombu doesn't know that CI's students, therefore the Hombu has set up Stages that must be passed before they can continue to the next Stage.

When I spoke about integrity, I was specifically speaking about the human integrity, and not any belt integrity because I agree with you that belts have no integrity because it's just a tangible thing, and not a accountable person. Because humans can lack integrity, the Hombu has set forth some very serious guidelines and requirements; check and balances, if I may.

I've seen students, not mine/ours, that have trained 4 times a week, and you know what...they look terrible across the board, and they don't know their stuff at all. I'm sure you've seen this as well!!

While testing is just a formality for the CI, however, the test that's not held by the CI isn't just a formality, it's a witness, for the lack of a better word.. The only true formality at the Hombu is how each Testing Cycle Candidates Record/Results are compiled, logged, and archived. Oh yeah, the bowing in and out is also a formality.

[crash]

[

I've seen students, not mine/ours, that have trained 4 times a week, and you know what...they look terrible across the board, and they don't know their stuff at all. I'm sure you've seen this as well!!

this right here, exactly what i was referring to about belt integrity...or lack there of...lol... so many places want to bring out their best students as show for visitors. but the truth is, if you want to know how good an instructor really is, dont look at their best, instead, look at their worst black belts / students. notice if all their students look and act as though they deserve their rank, or was it just given to them for participation...... the student is a reflection in a lot of ways of the instructor. their attitude, control, talent, dedication, etc can all be influenced by just how much time is given, respect shown, and honest interest taken in them. and it will be efective in helping that person grow..... of course im sure im preaching o the choire here with you , but maybe someone will gain something from this rambling.....lol.... great post sensei 8, you have a great day and continue on strongly Sir...

[aurik]

I should also mention that all candidates for Dan grades are required to complete a 3 month test prep cycle, in which heh perform a mini-test each week. They are expected to incorporate feedback during this cycle in their techniques. This cycle isn essentially a pre-test before the candidate is allowed to participate in the actual test.

[hammer]

Kyokushin dojo, promotion tests are 2-3 hours and cover kihon, kata, tameshiwari, and kumite, with a few sessions of PT thrown in. Higher ranks also do some self-defense.

Basically, it's a more intense class. Nothing torturous, although you can get bumps and bruises from the kumite since it's spirited contact. Think it can get rough for the upper kyu and dan ranks since they have a lot more kumite rounds to get through.

Toughest part of the test is the mental aspect...if you aren't ready physically or your technique and knowledge are not up to snuff the instructor should not let you test.

[sensei8]

[

I've seen students, not mine/ours, that have trained 4 times a week, and you know what...they look terrible across the board, and they don't know their stuff at all. I'm sure you've seen this as well!!

this right here, exactly what i was referring to about belt integrity...or lack there of...lol... so many places want to bring out their best students as show for visitors. but the truth is, if you want to know how good an instructor really is, dont look at their best, instead, look at their worst black belts / students. notice if all their students look and act as though they deserve their rank, or was it just given to them for participation...... the student is a reflection in a lot of ways of the instructor. their attitude, control, talent, dedication, etc can all be influenced by just how much time is given, respect shown, and honest interest taken in them. and it will be efective in helping that person grow..... of course im sure im preaching o the choire here with you , but maybe someone will gain something from this rambling.....lol.... great post sensei 8, you have a great day and continue on strongly Sir...

Solid post...thank you!!

This is why I've always said...Proof is on the floor!!

[Montana]

Ooooohhh, you guys are gonna hate me! lol

OK, when I was working up the kyu ranks, our first few tests were about demonstrating the basics. Blockes, kicks, and punches, then doing one kata. Not perfect, but competently for the belt you were testing for. The higher the rank, the better it needed to be. No exercises, no papers. Unless you fell on yoru face, you pretty much were going to pass.

Higher kyus get tougher. More kata, self defense techniques and kata. usually 2-3 kata, pme new one that is for your testing level, and 1-2 from your past, picked randomly by the testing sensei.

Black belt testing was pretty much the same, but VERY picky on good technique, speed, power, balance, etc. I had to do 3 kata in front of the head of the system, Master Kuda Yuichi. But you know what, I didn't even know I was TESTING! It was just a normalk class, Sensen Kuda asked each student in turn to stand up, do this or that, then sat down.

BOOM! I got my shodan!

I taught and tested my own students for over 25 years, pretty much the same way my sensei did it, until the last 10-12 years or so. I started stressing students that they are tested EVERY SINGLE DAY while they were in class. The test started at the bow in, and the bow out. They were beign tested on speed, power, strength, accuracy, knowledge, attitude, skill, etc. Of course, like most ogf us, you ask your sensei "When will I test?" I just told them you're being tested today, and the next, etc.

Now, my actualy tests went liek this. I, watchign them every class, have determined that they have reached the nest bell level thru their efforts, so I would stop class, have the students sit on the sides, call whatever student up and have them show me something they've been struggling with, and their current kata. When they wee done, I would bow to them, and hand them their next belt and certificate.

Easy Peasy. Who knows better that their ready than their sensei that sees them training?

[bushido_man96]

I, for one, have no issues with this form of testing. I think it's a great process, Montana.

[sensei8]

We have failed more than we've passed in our Testing Cycles, especially at the Hombu. It's not an ego thing at all, it's just a fact. The Testing Candidates somehow and someway fall apart from the pressure of the Testing Cycle. I can't remember just how many Testing Cycles that I've failed myself.

[DarthPenguin]

Seems quite like the BJJ method of promotion to me which i have always liked (though it does rely a lot on instructor integrity and the importance of lineage)