buying an expensive GI as a white belt

[Sailor Sindbad]

I moved from a dojo that gives free gis to new students to one that requires students to purchase their own.

I like the latter policy better.

The free gis given at the former are of obvious low quality and don't look very good. In my estimation, I'd assume that the intent of those free gis being issued is to get a student started immediately to give them time to purchase their own later, but it doesn't always work out like that. I've seen people make it all the way up to shodan with the free uniform, but not too long after, they purchase one that's higher quality (I'm assuming they were probably told to by the kancho).

I like the idea of students being required to purchase their gis from the beginning, because it requires them to compare gis and make selections based on those comparisons - i.e., they're more likely to select ones that are of higher quality.

I'd much rather see a white belt in an expensive gi than a black belt in a cheap one.

Not wanting to be confrontational here but can i ask why? The quality of someone's gi (in my opinion at least) has no bearing at all upon their skills.

Martial arts is an expensive activity so i don't see why you would want to price people out by almost making them use a pricey gi?

I know that wherever i have trained they would much rather you turned up and trained in an old gi than didn't train at all - for me the decision to pay the greater fees for training more often vs an expensive gi is a no brainer.

I am probably being slightly hypocritical here as i just ordered myself a new Hirota karate gi which wasn't cheap and i use quite expensive bjj gi's too but i have never really looked at someone else's gi other than wondering what one they had as it looked a decent fit and they look the same size as me etc!

Can i ask what would be wrong with the black belt being in a cheap gi? Doesn't the colour of the belt show their dedication and commitment to the art?

Again i hope this doesn't come across as confrontational, i am genuinely curious as it is an opinion that i haven't heard before and it might be a line of thought i am oblivious too and a gap in my own knowledge!

I'm retired military, so I have a thing about uniforms. To me, the higher the rank, the more important it is that you set the standard for appearance. And if someone of lower rank wants to step up, then it should be encouraged.

Again, it's the military in me.

[DarthPenguin]

Makes sense though cheap doesn't always means 'looks cheap'

I suppose it comes down to if the issue is with appearance (ie not looking smart enough) which i can understand given your background (and tbh i would usually expect people to be presentable) or quality which is slightly different. If someone wants to use a cheap quality (but presentable looking) gi that just doesn't last as long until they have to replace it then i don't see the harm.

Might also be the bjj in me though! I remember training under an individual in a former style who was mega picky, if you had stubble you couldn't train etc as he said grooming and appearance was important (though mysteriously this rule got waived when he decided to grow his own beard..). I remember when i trained there is i was late due to transport issues getting to the class and turning arounf and going home if i was 5-10min late as there was no guarantee i would be able to take part and i might even get banned for a month! Was totally different when i began bjj - i remember automatically going to do the same and the coach noticed me turning round and asked what on earth i was doing? He told me that in his book the important thing was getting in as much training as possible. As long as your gi is clean etc and hygiene measures have been followed then he didn't care really

[Sailor Sindbad]

Makes sense though cheap doesn't always means 'looks cheap'

I suppose it comes down to if the issue is with appearance (ie not looking smart enough) which i can understand given your background (and tbh i would usually expect people to be presentable) or quality which is slightly different. If someone wants to use a cheap quality (but presentable looking) gi that just doesn't last as long until they have to replace it then i don't see the harm.

And this can be an issue at times. Because they're not always going to replace it when it needs to be replaced. In all likelihood, someone who purchases something low quality to save a few bucks is also likely to delay replacing it when the time comes, since both are miserly acts (this is life in general, not just martial arts).

Bear in mind, I'm not saying that everyone should have to purchase a Japanese brand gi (though I'd encourage it if they're willing to spend the extra dollar), but there are decent ones that can be had in the $75 to $100 price range.

[Sailor Sindbad]

One thing I'm starting to realize: your gi will affect how often you show up to train.

If it's uncomfortable, doesn't feel fight, you don't feel good in it, it doesn't fit correctly, you're not satisfied with the breathability, etc, your attendance is not going to he as high as it otherwise would be.

I'm just now realizing this, because I am not satisfied with the gis that I currently use.

When I switched from Shorin-ryu to Shotokan, I switched from Hirota MH-11 to the Tokaido Kata Master 12 oz. I was loyal to Hirota, but I wanted something with the association label (which Tokaido has, but Hirota does not).

Big mistake.

I was going to try to go for using the Tokaido gis for at least a year so that I would feel like I got some ROI out of them (I bought them in March), but I don't think I'll be able to hold out that long. I think I'll be purchasing two MH-11's soon.

[DarthPenguin]

One thing I'm starting to realize: your gi will affect how often you show up to train.

If it's uncomfortable, doesn't feel fight, you don't feel good in it, it doesn't fit correctly, you're not satisfied with the breathability, etc, your attendance is not going to he as high as it otherwise would be.

I'm just now realizing this, because I am not satisfied with the gis that I currently use.

When I switched from Shorin-ryu to Shotokan, I switched from Hirota MH-11 to the Tokaido Kata Master 12 oz. I was loyal to Hirota, but I wanted something with the association label (which Tokaido has, but Hirota does not).

Big mistake.

I was going to try to go for using the Tokaido gis for at least a year so that I would feel like I got some ROI out of them (I bought them in March), but I don't think I'll be able to hold out that long. I think I'll be purchasing two MH-11's soon.

I'm curious about this as i usually here good htings about Tokaido gi's (though i have also heard there is a difference in cut between their 'European' Gis and their 'Japanese' ones). What didn't you like about the Tokaido one? I'm extremely happy with my Hirota MH-11 too and tbh when i want a new Gi will likely get another but a Tokaido would have also been on the shortlist!

[Sailor Sindbad]

I'm curious about this as i usually here good htings about Tokaido gi's (though i have also heard there is a difference in cut between their 'European' Gis and their 'Japanese' ones). What didn't you like about the Tokaido one? I'm extremely happy with my Hirota MH-11 too and tbh when i want a new Gi will likely get another but a Tokaido would have also been on the shortlist!

I own two 12 oz Kata Master gis. The Kata Master is not "Made in Japan," so what I'm saying likely doesn't apply to the models that are. The material just doesn't feel good and it doesn't breathe well (quite frankly, they feel no better than other non-Japanese gis that can be had at half the price). The MH-11 breathes perfectly and the material is on point. Perhaps the same can be said of Tokaido's Shikon/TAW (the made in Japan equivalent to the MH-11), but with the price of those gis... I feel comfortable sticking to what I know. Unless, that is, I hear from someone who has worn both the MH-11 and the Shikon/TAW that can provide some input.

[aurik]

Chiming in a bit late to this topic, but our CI does do the "free uniform when you sign up for a X month program". IMO, it lowers the cost of entry for students. Granted, the uniform he provides is your basic 6oz lightweight uniform, but it is serviceable and lowers the cost of entry. It'll generally last a good 2 years or so, assuming you take decent care of it. Generally since most of our students are youths, they'll end up growing out of one or two uniforms before they actually need replacing. Honestly most first-time students aren't going to want to spend the significant amount of money involved with getting a top-grade uniform, especially when they aren't sure if this is something they are going to want to stick with.

Most of our dan-grade adult students (and several advanced brown belts) have invested in more expensive uniforms. At our school the Meijin gi seems really popular, but we've also got students wearing Shureido and Tokaido uniforms as well. It boils down to the student's personal preference.

[Sailor Sindbad]

Chiming in a bit late to this topic, but our CI does do the "free uniform when you sign up for a X month program". IMO, it lowers the cost of entry for students. Granted, the uniform he provides is your basic 6oz lightweight uniform, but it is serviceable and lowers the cost of entry. It'll generally last a good 2 years or so, assuming you take decent care of it.

ProForce? Ideally, they should be chucked after 2 years. But nope. There are people who'll wear them for far longer than that, to the point where they look like they've been found at the bottom of a dumpster.

Like I said earlier, I think that being given something for free versus shopping around and making your own selection affects how you treat it.

[aurik]

ProForce? Ideally, they should be chucked after 2 years. But nope. There are people who'll wear them for far longer than that, to the point where they look like they've been found at the bottom of a dumpster.

Like I said earlier, I think that being given something for free versus shopping around and making your own selection affects how you treat it.

Oh, I completely agree. We've got kids at the school whose gis look more like a very faded greyish brown than the white they originally started at. Of course, mine's starting to show its age too (I wear a 8.5 oz Sakura big and tall uniform) - it's starting to yellow/gray on the inside of the neck, and grey around the waist where my belt cinches it. However, it's also lasted me a good 5 years of training 3-4x per week. I've got a new one that I just need to have tailored.