Students: now and then

[MatsuShinshii]

The original question was about martial arts students in general. It is interesting to note that many a contributor’s post describes issues with children or youths. Maybe this can be attributed to the number of children/youths involved in martial arts compared to adults.

How are things similar or different with adult martial arts students?

Well since I do not teach anyone under the age of 16, I was speaking of what I would consider adults or at least pre-adults. 16 was considered an adult years ago in Okinawa which is where this rule came from for our organization. Unfortunately I have found this not to be the case in the last 10 to 15 years. I expect a 16 year old to have more maturity than younger children but to be honest most (not all) remind me of an 8 or 10 year old child when it comes to maturity level.

But this is only my observation and may not be indicative of all area's around the country. At least I pray it's not or this country is on a serious down slid.

[Bulltahr]

Unfortunately I have found this not to be the case in the last 10 to 15 years. I expect a 16 year old to have more maturity than younger children but to be honest most (not all) remind me of an 8 or 10 year old child when it comes to maturity level.

But this is only my observation and may not be indicative of all area's around the country. At least I pray it's not or this country is on a serious down slid.

Sorry to say that it appears to be happening everywhere, a result of the liberalization of society, where kids can run riot and parents reply "they are just expressing themselves....."

The PC world gone mad.

[singularity6]

Unfortunately I have found this not to be the case in the last 10 to 15 years. I expect a 16 year old to have more maturity than younger children but to be honest most (not all) remind me of an 8 or 10 year old child when it comes to maturity level.

But this is only my observation and may not be indicative of all area's around the country. At least I pray it's not or this country is on a serious down slid.

Sorry to say that it appears to be happening everywhere, a result of the liberalization of society, where kids can run riot and parents reply "they are just expressing themselves....."

 

The PC world gone mad.

The first time I caught myself saying something like these, I took a moment to pause and reflect. I decided that it was one of the first signs of me getting older, and that there was clearly a distinct boundary between myself and a new generation.

There is a man by the name of Chuck Underwood who writes and presents about the differences between generations (mostly applicable to American culture.) I found his work to be quite enlightening, and would recommend it to anyone who works with people outside their own generation (i.e., pretty much anyone.)

[Bulltahr]

The first time I caught myself saying something like these, I took a moment to pause and reflect. I decided that it was one of the first signs of me getting older, and that there was clearly a distinct boundary between myself and a new generation.

There is a man by the name of Chuck Underwood who writes and presents about the differences between generations (mostly applicable to American culture.) I found his work to be quite enlightening, and would recommend it to anyone who works with people outside their own generation (i.e., pretty much anyone.)

Too true hahahaha, now don't get me started on this "music" that the young ones listen to!!!

[JR 137]

My biggest challenge is teaching students that when they hear "No" it doesn't mean I'm mad at them of that I don't like them, it just means that there are boundaries in the dojo. Many kids today don't seem to hear no very often so they think that being given limits is personal or vindictive. This isn't only true of martial arts, however, it seems to be a cultural phenomena.

I actually had one mother say, "NAME doesn't like to be told no, so we try not to use that word around him."

My sister-in-law is from that ridiculous thought camp. Instead of telling her kids no, she’ll change the subject, distract them with something else, or tell them “not right now, but later.” Her husband is even worse. And she can’t figure out why her kids don’t listen to a word either one of them say and have zero respect for anyone nor anything. It genuinely pains me to say that about my 9, 7, and 5 year old nieces and nephew, but it’s true. They’ll both wake up one day and wonder why their teenage kids are swearing at them and worse, telling themselves that they gave them everything they could and how can they treat them like that. I won’t.

It’s called being a parent rather than being a friend. Too many of these so called parents are more concerned with their kids liking them and not hurting their feelings than actually being a parent and putting their foot down. I’ve never hit my kids and I never will. But that doesn’t mean I don’t know how to discipline my kids. I think too many parents think the only way to discipline is to hit, so they do nothing. All they do is talk. Kids are easily smart enough to know that actions speak louder than words. When kids don’t do what they’re supposed to do, you take things away from them, be it physical things or social things. Simple as that. You don’t threaten anything you don’t intend to do, and you follow through with the consequences. Every single time. It’s not rocket science, and I’m not the parent of the year by any stretch of the imagination, but this pretty cut and dry IMO.

No one wants to give their kids consequences. Either they don’t want to hear the complaints, or they don’t want to damage their kids’ fragile psyche, or they don’t want their kids to “hate” them.

I love my kids more than anything in the world. I’d love to be their best friend ever, but not at the expense of letting them walk all over me and everyone else.

[Spartacus Maximus]

One of the differences between now and a few generations ago is how much exposure to martial arts and access to information and media about the subject an average student has. For good or bad this has an important influence on student’s attitude towards training, their goals and motivations.

[JR 137]

One of the differences between now and a few generations ago is how much exposure to martial arts and access to information and media about the subject an average student has. For good or bad this has an important influence on student’s attitude towards training, their goals and motivations.

Absolutely. But having all that access can be a double edged sword. I could easily go on YouTube and find someone who’ll contradict what my teacher is teaching and believe that, when the guy on YouTube is no more credible than some guy on the streets that never deserved any attention from me.

And with all this technology at our fingertips, we’ve become a very instant gratification society. Why put in 5-10 years to get a black belt when someone down the street can get you to black belt in 2 years? I guess the 2 years teacher must be a genius because he can teach you everything you need to know in 1/2 - 1/4 the time it takes the other guy to do the same thing.

A guy my CI worked with was a 2nd dan at a TKD place down the road. It took him 3 years to get to 2nd dan. He came to our dojo to train a bit with my CI and spar with different people. How skilled was he? According to my CI, about as skilled as any average student with 3 years of training; about 4th kyu level.

[Lupin1]

There is a man by the name of Chuck Underwood who writes and presents about the differences between generations (mostly applicable to American culture.) I found his work to be quite enlightening, and would recommend it to anyone who works with people outside their own generation (i.e., pretty much anyone.)

There's a book that just came out called iGen about the current crop of teenagers and young adults (the generation after millennials) that's a good read if anyone is interested. It really helped me understand the differences in how this generation is growing up vs my generation just a decade before.

[MatsuShinshii]

One of the differences between now and a few generations ago is how much exposure to martial arts and access to information and media about the subject an average student has. For good or bad this has an important influence on student’s attitude towards training, their goals and motivations.

Absolutely. But having all that access can be a double edged sword. I could easily go on YouTube and find someone who’ll contradict what my teacher is teaching and believe that, when the guy on YouTube is no more credible than some guy on the streets that never deserved any attention from me.

And with all this technology at our fingertips, we’ve become a very instant gratification society. Why put in 5-10 years to get a black belt when someone down the street can get you to black belt in 2 years? I guess the 2 years teacher must be a genius because he can teach you everything you need to know in 1/2 - 1/4 the time it takes the other guy to do the same thing.

A guy my CI worked with was a 2nd dan at a TKD place down the road. It took him 3 years to get to 2nd dan. He came to our dojo to train a bit with my CI and spar with different people. How skilled was he? According to my CI, about as skilled as any average student with 3 years of training; about 4th kyu level.

This is true but the problem is the instructors mind set of "they are just belts". The grading system doesn't represent or mean what it did when I was starting out. I don't know if it's because there are more belts and thus have less meaning/value or instructors don't care as long as the student comes back and continues to pay.

A Shodan today couldn't be called the same 30 years ago. A sandan today couldn't be called a Shodan 30 years ago to be perfectly honest in most cases. Standards have been sacrificed to the fast food mentality and the ego that this generation has of themselves. They think they are perfect because this is what they are told by parents and heaven help you if you dare not to acknowledge that greatness by way of speedy promotions, deserving or not.

I will not say I understand the plight of the business owner and what sacrifices they must make to keep the doors open. I realize it's not that simple. However if your receiving your Shodan you should be representative of a Shodan, not a Sankyu wearing a black belt.

Just my 2 cents for what that's worth.

[singularity6]

We currently have "one of those" students being discussed in my class right now. She's young, overweight and not that athletic... whines about stretching... whines about forms... interrupts when adults are talking, etc.

At any rate, a transformation was made 2 weeks ago. After a couple weeks of trying, she FINALLY broke a board with a front kick at the end of class. This happened maybe 2 weeks ago. Since then, she hasn't missed a class (and appears to be having fun!) The whining was greatly reduced and it seems like she might be practicing more at home.

While this is anecdotal, I find it encouraging. Yeah, people are exercising less and instant gratification is an issue. This reinforced the idea that we can still reach the young people, but we might need to demonstrate some patience and meet them where they're at. What will this look like in the martial arts class? I'm not entirely sure. I just know that things which worked 20 years ago might not work today.